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Emperor's Nightmare(s) Thread 12

Jareddm Sun 10 Apr 07:26:24 2011 No.14541731 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>14552743

Dreads
Isaac
Other fluff

SC Guy Sun 10 Apr 2011 07:29:24 No.14541768 Report

Quoted By:

In response to WIng Zero's thought about the Sleepless in the prior thread, I don't think we should give any details as to the amount of Sleepless. Leave it to one's imagination.

Jareddm Sun 10 Apr 2011 07:30:24 No.14541778 Report

Quoted By:

>>14541739

I left the true number of sleepless and Waking Dead as classified, which allows for people to play sleepless heavy armies

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2011 07:32:24 No.14541791 Report

Quoted By: >>14541834

>>14541739
There are exactly 6 Phobetor dreadnoughts. They work in pairs.

Wing Zero Sun 10 Apr 2011 07:33:24 No.14541803 Report

Quoted By: >>14541822 >>14541825 >>14541834

Dropping the chap dread, but taking the two Apoth dreads and the special character, we have 55 to play with. We have 5 patterns of dreads left.

Agreed on the hellfire, but the icelus should be numerous as well.

Also, I think we should have it be "Honored" Brother Tibalt, on account of he's the highest ranked of the most important fluffy dreads.

SC Guy Sun 10 Apr 2011 07:35:24 No.14541822 Report

Quoted By:

>>14541803

Yeah, the poor guy deserves a better title.

Wing Zero Sun 10 Apr 2011 07:35:24 No.14541825 Report

Quoted By:

>>14541803
make that 51.

Jareddm Sun 10 Apr 2011 07:35:24 No.14541834 Report

Quoted By: >>14541860 >>14541885

>>14541791
Where did 6 come from? It's not a bad number but just wondering if that was mentioned before.

>>14541803
The Icelus Dreadnoughts are a seperate count of 24 suits...we have ALOT of dreadnoughts!

Wing Zero Sun 10 Apr 2011 07:40:24 No.14541860 Report

Quoted By:

>>14541834
Then don't forget to include them separately in the 1st comp.

And lets have the two empty suits go to venerable and August Dreamwalkers so people can make their own custom characters

Starshadow Sun 10 Apr 2011 07:41:24 No.14541875 Report

Quoted By: >>14541897 >>14541912 >>14541920

There should be at least 4 devastator dreads permanently assigned to each company. The one exception is 4th company which was specifically mentioned to be an armoured assault group. So 4th doesn't need devastators, they wouldn't be able to keep up with the tanks anyway.

6 Phobetor dreads in the chapter... That seems like a bit much, I doubt the Sleepless would ever be deployed en masse in more than one place at a time. So retcon that to 4 Phobetors, and 2 venerable apothecary dreads. 4 because two of them might be sleeping, and there needs to be at least two in combat in case one of them falls asleep.

That leaves how many? We also want a chap dread for fluff and 1-2 techmarine dreads. The rest are waking dead, august dreamwalkers and the "regular" pool of plain and venerable dreads. Oh and the 2 empty chassis.

That sound about right?

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2011 07:43:24 No.14541885 Report

Quoted By:

>>14541834
The six came up a while back--it was a reasonable number of apothecary specialists given the task at hand.

Also, could you imagine the Phobetor doing its normal duties when the Sleepless are dealt with? Gazing down at a wounded marine that it treats with disturbingly expert precision.

Wing Zero Sun 10 Apr 2011 07:44:24 No.14541897 Report

Quoted By:

>>14541875
about 8 i'd say.

Jareddm Sun 10 Apr 2011 07:46:24 No.14541912 Report

Quoted By: >>14541927

>>14541875
What's the difference between the Phobetor and a venerable apothecary dread? I thought the Phobetor was the apothecary dread?

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2011 07:47:24 No.14541920 Report

Quoted By:

>>14541875
I would keep it six. Assuming they don't field all sleepless every time, they want a group hanging back at home to tend the rest. They also want a backup crew for if they're needed, or others are asleep. The pairs also helps inspire partnerships between each group.

SC Guy Sun 10 Apr 2011 07:47:24 No.14541927 Report

Quoted By:

>>14541912

He means the specialist choices dreads with the Venerable upgrade can take in the rules. Basically dreads who gained an affinity for such work and carry mechadendrite-mounted narthecium glaives.

Wing Zero Sun 10 Apr 2011 07:49:24 No.14541933 Report

Quoted By: >>14541945 >>14541953

Venerable phobetors sound stupid, lets just make it 4 dreads, also I included to many in EACH company. And I think we should have an all stealth company, so only icelus patterns.

DERP

So I'd say we have about 29 to play with

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2011 07:50:24 No.14541945 Report

Quoted By: >>14541952 >>14541953

>>14541933
I still think we ought to keep it at six, bro. Six out of the whole chapter and a whole lot more dreadnoughts of all kinds.

Wing Zero Sun 10 Apr 2011 07:52:24 No.14541952 Report

Quoted By:

>>14541945
OK, but no venerables. That's what eidolon is for.

27 dreads

Jareddm Sun 10 Apr 2011 07:52:24 No.14541953 Report

Quoted By: >>14541966

>>14541933
>>14541945

Hold up, I'm getting confused. So you're saying that the normal dreadnoughts will be counted for in 1st company, but the icelus dreadnoughts would be with companies? Why not just say "24 Icelus Dreadnoughts in 1st company"?

Starshadow Sun 10 Apr 2011 07:53:24 No.14541961 Report

Quoted By: >>14541975 >>14541995 >>14542008

>Also, could you imagine the Phobetor doing its normal duties when the Sleepless are dealt with? Gazing down at a wounded marine that it treats with disturbingly expert precision.
This is a good point. I haven't had time to fully draw up plans but I want to make Phobetors a more distinct type of dread. Every now and then you might find a venerable apothercary dread filling in for a sleeping apothecary. But Phobetor dreads (the machine, not necessarily the apoc pilot) are specifically designed for the care and control of Sleepless and only deploy with them. They are more than just a regular dread with a healing shiv taped to them.

So instead of saying "6 Phobetors". Just list them as 6 apothecary pilots who may or may not deploy in a Phobetor dread.

For Icelus dreads, lets say each Secundus company has a squad of 3 attached at all times. The other 12 are in a floating pool and assigned to particular companies whenever the need arises. Secundus makes more use of them in general than Primus.

Wing Zero Sun 10 Apr 2011 07:54:24 No.14541966 Report

Quoted By:

>>14541953
No. I'm saying that they have no hellfire's. They would only second icelus' from the 1st comp.

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2011 07:55:24 No.14541975 Report

Quoted By:

>>14541961
That'll work well, since there's that Icelus Ghost Formation kicking around.

Wing Zero Sun 10 Apr 2011 07:57:24 No.14541995 Report

Quoted By:

>>14541961
So you mean like the (dare I say it) dreadknight?

I like that for the Icelus. 1 good squad for each comp, and 12 to go where they are needed.

Jareddm Sun 10 Apr 2011 08:00:24 No.14542008 Report

Quoted By: >>14542026

>>14541961
This seems too complicated. Why not just have 6 Phobetor dreadnoughts, and no apothecary dreads? We still have marine apothecaries to count, and there's almost always more apothecaries than chapters.

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2011 08:05:24 No.14542026 Report

Quoted By:

>>14542008
Easy solution--put more description into the Phobetor. Make it able to function ably in both roles as necessitated--after all, they don't just let wounded Sleepless bleed out ignobly on the field if they would live.
If we can mastercraft a pre-heresy dreadnought frame and turn it into silent biomechanical death, we can Pimp Our Phobetor.

Starshadow Sun 10 Apr 2011 08:10:24 No.14542052 Report

Quoted By:

>14542008
Yeah you're right. Were just making it complicated. Lets just say there are 6 apothecaries in Phobetor dreadnoughts. They are sometimes used to fill in for a sleeping apothecary. But otherwise only deploy alongside groups of sleepless.

We can revisit the Dread mechanics later. For now just leave them as a number on the force chart.

Wing Zero Sun 10 Apr 2011 08:11:24 No.14542058 Report

Quoted By: >>14542093 >>14542117 >>14542124

Just went and looked up the organization of the Ulrasmurfs. They are as follows in our problem areas:

-1,700 Chapter Equirries and Servitors

Armoury:
-Fennias Maxim, Master of the Forge
-27 Techmarines
-95 Tech Servitors
-25 Predators
-8 Vindicators
-9 Whirlwinds
-12 Land Raiders

Apothecarion:
-Corpus Helix, Chief Apothecary
-12 Apothecaries

Fleet Command:
-8 Strike Cruisers
-3 Battle Barges (Octavius, Caesar, Severian)
-12 Rapid Strike Vessels
-31 Thunderhawk Gunships

Librarius:
-Chief Librarian Varro Tigurius
-5 Epistolaries
-9 Codiciers
-10 Lexicaniums
-3 Acolytum

What do you guys think? Any numbers you want to change? (apothacaries)

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2011 08:14:24 No.14542093 Report

Quoted By:

>>14542058
A good deal less heavy support--the Ultras get the cream of the crop, given their size and stature. Less vehicles all around. Maybe only one or two land raiders.
Apothecaries we have more. Probably double. Between the Sleepless and the necessity of repeated, careful checks of the catalapsean, and the tendency of any Nightmare, apothecary included, to fall asleep, you need a lot more.

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2011 08:16:24 No.14542117 Report

Quoted By:

>>14542058
Less spacecraft.
More Librarians, though. Not a huge increase, but with their affinity for Dreamers and the close bond to the Psykana (who may send along young enough children that someday they can take the trials and join the Chapter), they have more psykers. Not as many as, like, the Blood Ravens, mind.

Jareddm Sun 10 Apr 2011 08:17:24 No.14542124 Report

Quoted By:

>>14542058
Good idea.

I've cut back on Fleet Command considering our weakness in terms of space-based resources.
1 Battle Barge, 8 Strike Cruisers12 Rapid Strike Vessels and 20 Thunderhawks

Maybe 18 Apothecaries?

Armory looks okay.

I don't even think we're using the same Librarian set up. We might have to do that from scratch.

Wing Zero Sun 10 Apr 2011 08:21:24 No.14542163 Report

Quoted By:

I was thinking the following:

36- 40 apothacaries
12 strike vessels
12 thunderhawks
5 land raiders (any variant)
15 preds
10 whirlwinds/ vindis summed

Anything else is up in the air for me.

Jareddm Sun 10 Apr 2011 08:29:24 No.14542229 Report

Quoted By: >>14542247

To try and please everyone, here's the numbers I'm thinking of putting onto the table.

30 Apothecaries
23 Techmarines
2 Techmarine Dreadnoughts
80 Servitors
20 Predators
4 Vindicators
4 Whirlwinds
3 Land Raiders

Librarium I still have no clue

Wing Zero Sun 10 Apr 2011 08:31:24 No.14542247 Report

Quoted By:

>>14542229
Cool with it.

24 dreads to play with.

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Jareddm Sun 10 Apr 2011 08:32:24 No.14542263 Report

Quoted By: >>14542477 >>14544925

The party has finally stopped. I'm heading to bed.
For now, I leave you with our nearly complete organizational chart and wish you luck.

Jareddm Sun 10 Apr 2011 08:33:24 No.14542277 Report

Quoted By:

Ignore the 10 regular dreads, that was an accident from earlier.

Starshadow Sun 10 Apr 2011 08:34:24 No.14542286 Report

Quoted By:

Definitely 40 or so apocs and techmarines. We would have far more than the Ultramarines because almost half of them are inactive at anyone one time.

We seem to have rather too few thunderhawks. I can't imagine the Ultramarines making due with just 31. One thunderhawk can carry 30 fully equipped marines. Each Primus company has about 100 active marines. So you would need at least 4 thunderhawks to carry them back into orbit after a pod assault. To say nothing of the transportation of vehicles and pods.

Wing Zero Sun 10 Apr 2011 08:39:24 No.14542361 Report

Quoted By:

23 dreads to play with. 2 are empty. 1 is chaplain.

How about we split 5 to each other type. We'll have 6 total August Dreamwalkers, and 5 norm, ven, ironclad.

Starshadow Sun 10 Apr 2011 08:44:24 No.14542402 Report

Quoted By:

I don't think there is any point in getting that specific. We know there are so and so number of dreads assigned as devastators. We know there are 6 Phobetors. We know there are some August Dreamwalkers.

But other than that, the rest should be left undefined. Walking Dead dreads are not officially listed, just like the other sleepless.

Wing Zero Sun 10 Apr 2011 08:50:24 No.14542461 Report

Quoted By:

I'm going to bed, I've gotta be up before 9 today.

Good night, good luck, and I hope to be on tomorrow at some point. Till then.

Starshadow Sun 10 Apr 2011 08:52:24 No.14542477 Report

Quoted By: >>14543963

>>14542263
The list looks good so far. Other than the lack of thunderhawks I mentioned. Those hellfire dreads should be also listed in specific companies.

23+2 techmarines seemed a little low to me. Until I remembered that the number does not include the undefined amount who have already turned sleepless. There are enough apocs/techmarines for at least 2 per company, with some left over. Sounds about right.

I'm off too. Be back tommorow.

Jareddm Sun 10 Apr 2011 13:13:24 No.14543897 Report

Quoted By:

All numbers have been updated, though if we're going to be splitting the Hellfire dreads by company, we'd need to decide on how many go in each company. Also, I think Secundus companies should get a few as well. You can always use a diversion wehn you're trying to sneak in and out of somewhere.

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2011 13:22:24 No.14543963 Report

Quoted By:

>>14542477
Yeah I think the chapter should have 50-60 thunderhawks- Unless you want them to use Stormravens a lot multiple company deployments would be a pain- especially if those thunderhawks include transporters.

However I'd imagine that they maintain a huge fleet of small shuttles and landers that are crewed by chapter serfs so I guess you could have a small thunderhawk beachead force followed up by the other marines in shuttles.

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Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2011 13:50:24 No.14544138 Report

Quoted By: >>14544239 >>14544338

I was pondering the EN, and the situation they face. Whether its only some brothers that become Sleepless in the end, or the end fate of all brothers - the very idea that it could happen, that one day the walls of reality would come crashing down... it would be a fear that every single brother would face. And I wondered, how would you face that?

So, maybe its not just the armour that they enscribe, but their bodies themselves. Intricate markings, tattoos, symbols - that describe a brothers trials, and tribulations - his very history made manifest in his flesh. Similar, I suppose, to the old fluff with the Imperial Fists scrivening.

And then one day, the history marked on your body starts to change. Are your perceiving the symbols differently? Seeing things that arent there? Or is your memory collapsing under the weight of sleeplessness? A first sign... the beginning of the end.

This compulsion to record ones history could serve to explain the need of the Sleepless (as opposed to simple desire) to mark the power armour with the truth, as they now see it. Flesh may lie, but 'Steel' tells the truth.

Jareddm Sun 10 Apr 2011 14:05:24 No.14544239 Report

Quoted By: >>14544375

>>14544138
This is...interesting. The problem is at the moment it might be quite difficult to incorporate this into the chapter, especially given the non-fatalistic nature The Sleepless have. It's not a certainty.

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2011 14:18:24 No.14544337 Report

Quoted By: >>14544482

This thing about Dreadnoughts falling asleep in battle is pretty worrying, they are a lot of killing power to just lose in the middle of a fight.

Is there no way to keep the pilots awake, perhaps at terrible cost? Or failing that, could there be a safety net? Maybe some sort of DAoT autopilot system that merges with the pilot's subconscious.

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Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2011 14:18:24 No.14544338 Report

Quoted By: >>14544364

>>14544138
Alternatively - if the compulsion is to record a brothers history, we would see an outpouring of stories, poems, songs, chants - each brother obsessively recording his experiences, his reactions, his thoughts. Told, reread, recounted time and time again so as cement the truth of them.

Possibly from this would come some internal culture - specific to our Nightmares. Lodges wherein brothers came together and tell stories. Possibly the Nightmares value skill with the word as highly as skill in battle. Wordplay regarded as highly as tactical knowledge.

And certainly a good riddle would serve to distract those succumbing to the Sleeplessness for a day more, for an hour more, for a single minute of sanity.

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2011 14:22:24 No.14544364 Report

Quoted By:

>>14544338

>And certainly a good riddle would serve to distract those succumbing to the Sleeplessness for a day more, for an hour more, for a single minute of sanity.

This is awesome.

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2011 14:23:24 No.14544375 Report

Quoted By:

>>14544239
That's true - and it could very easily be misconstrued as angsty and emo, "We are all doomed!", etc. So that's a very line to tread!

Though I will admit the nature of the Sleepless does give me a healthy dose of the old body horror :P

Mostly Im just spitballin' some ideas of how people might deal with the possibly one day you might go a little bit loony tunes and lost your grasp on reality altogether

SC Guy Sun 10 Apr 2011 14:41:24 No.14544482 Report

Quoted By:

>>14544337

Well, that's what the Redundant Systems vehicle upgrade came from, the machine spirit and the systems being flexible enough to briefly take control.

Starshadow Sun 10 Apr 2011 15:02:24 No.14544601 Report

Quoted By: >>14544615

Back, couple things I wanted to touch on from previous threads before I forget.

>Hive Quartus
Technically this should read Hive Quarto. But to me Quartus sounds better. 40k is full of faux latin anyway.

I didn't realize it at the time when I thought up Quintus as a giant greenhouse. But having Quintus be a nexus for narcotics trading makes a lot of sense. Ever wonder where all these industrial grade drugs that get used on the Sleepless come from? Yeah. Its a grow op disguised as a perfectly functional factory farm.

> Symbols of the Chapter
Over the past 11 threads a lot of motifs have popped up. Each of these symbols should have a specific meaning within the chapter.
- The Owl (veterans/first company)
- The Hourglass (the Sleepers/ sleep cycle)
- The Infinity symbol (the Sleepless)
- The Key (techmarines)
- The Sunrise (the Dawn)
- The Crescent Moon (the Dusk)
- The Dreamcatcher (lucid dreams/Dreamwalkers)

SC Guy Sun 10 Apr 2011 15:04:24 No.14544615 Report

Quoted By:

>>14544601

The way I see it, it, the owl is a cross between homage to the Raven Guard and the traditional view of owls as birds of the night.

Starshadow Sun 10 Apr 2011 15:16:24 No.14544682 Report

Quoted By: >>14544714

>Well, that's what the Redundant Systems vehicle upgrade came from, the machine spirit and the systems being flexible enough to briefly take control.
I think we should fluff this out properly. The main danger for a dread is that it falls asleep in the open and becomes a sitting duck. However having a full blown quasi-AI Machine Spirit starts to stretch things a bit. Such things only exist in Land Raiders.

So when we say "redundant systems" I think it should mean a machine spirit complex enough to take control of the Dread and move it to a safer location. Having other Dreads or a techmarine around would help because they could direct the machine spirit more effectively.

I think we should add some rules to the TT to offset EN's awesome mastery over Dreadnoughts as a whole. Maybe a very very random roll that has a chance of reducing the WS and BS of a Dread by 2? If there is at least one other Dread or a techmarine on the field, this penalty is lessened to -1.

Stealth is such an all or nothing gamble that I can't imagine them ever deploying Icelus dreads that are approaching their sleeptime.

SC Guy Sun 10 Apr 2011 15:20:24 No.14544714 Report

Quoted By: >>14544844

>>14544682

Perhaps you roll for it, a la Red Thirst. On a 1, the dread is approaching sleep. For the rest of the game, at the start of the turn you take an Ld test, offset by a penalty equal to the turn number -1. If/when you fail it, the dread suffers the aforementioned penalties.

Starshadow Sun 10 Apr 2011 15:25:24 No.14544739 Report

Quoted By: >>14544750

>The way I see it, it, the owl is a cross between homage to the Raven Guard and the traditional view of owls as birds of the night.
Yeah the Owl motif is fitting. It combines the tropes of Predator, Wise Elder and Nocturnal all at once.

Do Owls exist on Icelus? Given the profusion of bird motifs, I'd say yes. Just because the planet is a wasteland with no trees doesn't mean you couldn't have a couple burrowing owls. The killing of birds should be a crime. As birds should be used instead to fill in for cherubs and servo skulls.

A Psyber-Owl should be a mark of extreme power and competence among Psykers on Icelus. Thought lesser birds would also be common. That includes Dreamwalkers.

Hehe, I just had a mental picture of an August Dreamwalker in Iron with a Psyber-Owl perched on his forearm. Adding them to the Codex would complicate things, but there is no reason why you could not model one.

SC Guy Sun 10 Apr 2011 15:27:24 No.14544750 Report

Quoted By: >>14544844

>>14544739

I think in one of the stories somebody mentioned that the owls had evolved since they were brought to Icelus, and were now fearsome predators in their own right, something to be respected.

Jareddm Sun 10 Apr 2011 15:35:24 No.14544802 Report

Quoted By: >>14544844

>The killing of birds should be a crime. As birds should be used instead to fill in for cherubs and servo skulls.

I was thinking it was more that it's not illegal to kill an owl, but good luck trying before it kills you!

The fact that the masks of travelers and the PDF are hooked nose beaks I feel should be just a coincidence as well.

Jareddm Sun 10 Apr 2011 15:42:24 No.14544841 Report

Quoted By:

>
having Quintus be a nexus for narcotics trading makes a lot of sense. Ever wonder where all these industrial grade drugs that get used on the Sleepless come from? .

The issue I have with this is more personal. I deal with this kind of stuff in my job and I can assure you, if you want powerful narcotics, you go synthetic. The Apothecaries probably mix it up from scratch.

Starshadow Sun 10 Apr 2011 15:43:24 No.14544844 Report

Quoted By:

>>14544714
Yeah that works. At first I thought we should have special rules for the possibility of marines falling sleep. But then I realized that we already do this. Models removed as casualties are not ALL dead. Some of them represent the wounded and those knocked unconscious.

If you had a Tac squad that loses 3 models. You would remove 3 of the normal marines. And in a fluff sense one of them just happened to fall asleep. This gets played straight with equipment too. If a sleeping marine drops a plasma gun, one of his squad mates will immediately pick it up. They all know how to use it, its why they crosstrained.

>>14544750
Only a tough predator would be able to survive in the wastes. So I think Icelus should be home to its own species of uber owl :D. Originally imported as a sign of respect for this Raven Guard heritage. The owls eventually spread from the hives and adapted to living in the wastes. Evolving into the giant predators they are now. (regular owls and birds still exist of course)

>>14544802
The whole bird motif is undoubtedly from the EN's use of the symbol. Its just like the purple and yellow being considered special. Adopted as a symbol of power and nobility.

Starshadow Sun 10 Apr 2011 15:49:24 No.14544891 Report

Quoted By: >>14544909 >>14544950

>I deal with this kind of stuff in my job and I can assure you, if you want powerful narcotics, you go synthetic. The Apothecaries probably mix it up from scratch.
Hmm, okay I'll grant you that point. However I rationalized it by thinking that the EN's haven't cracked down on the trade yet because they might stumble upon something new that can affect the Sleepless. Remember they are willing to try anything to give those guys a moments peace.

Plus all the raw materials have to come from somewhere. The use of so many drugs is something they would want to hide as a rule. So they would probably rely on local production rather than imports.

Wait a second...
D:
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MOTHER OF GOD!

SLEEPLESS APOTHECARY ALCHEMISTS!

SC Guy Sun 10 Apr 2011 15:51:24 No.14544909 Report

Quoted By: >>14544989

>>14544891

As cool as the idea is, I don't think we want to go too far with the Sleepless craftsmen.

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Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2011 15:54:24 No.14544925 Report

Quoted By: >>14544991 >>14545111

>>14542263
I like it!
I'm willing to donate a resized transparent symbol so you can use for the sheet. Which you may or may not have already fixed, for all I know, but it's here if you need it.

Also though this may have already been discussed and explained to death, but why nightmares instead of nightmare?

Jareddm Sun 10 Apr 2011 15:58:24 No.14544950 Report

Quoted By: >>14545045

>>14544891
I suppose so. But just remember, the narcotics trafficking is far different from the stimulant traffickin, which I'd imagine is far more profitable and IS cracked down on rather harshly.

icelusi Odorizzi

Captcha offers us advice.

Starshadow Sun 10 Apr 2011 16:04:24 No.14544989 Report

Quoted By: >>14545019 >>14545107

>>14544909
I know, this would only be a fluff thing. But holy crap... Did any of you ever wonder what would happen to an apothecary after they went sleepless? A crazy insomniac, with a huge amount of medicinal and anatomical knowledge. Scary.

>Also though this may have already been discussed and explained to death, but why nightmares instead of nightmare?
I think we just found it to be easier using the plural all the time instead of switching back and forth. Plus nightmares come in many shades and the Emperor surely had more than one in mind to inflict upon his foes.

SC Guy Sun 10 Apr 2011 16:04:24 No.14544991 Report

Quoted By:

>>14544925

Personal preference of the majority, it seems.

Jareddm Sun 10 Apr 2011 16:08:24 No.14545019 Report

Quoted By: >>14545056

>>14544989
The thing is, unlike the techpriests, the apothecarion cares about your health first and foremost. I imagined if an apothecary went sleepless, he'd turn himself in immedietely.

Though it does raise a question about armor markings. A white strip is used to signify a marine as deathless, and this works because of the dark colors on the normal marines, but an apothecary's armor is already white...

Jareddm Sun 10 Apr 2011 16:09:24 No.14545027 Report

Quoted By:

>deathless
Sleepless*
sorry was talking about D&D earlier...

Starshadow Sun 10 Apr 2011 16:12:24 No.14545045 Report

Quoted By:

>>14544950
Hmm you're right, I'm confusing two separate things. Hive Quintus is the ONLY place on Icelus where plants can be cultivated in meaningful quantities. This means that its main exports are:

1. Decorative plants, flowers and wood. (Trade goods, ridiculously rare and expensive for obvious reasons)
2. Food. Plants and a little livestock. Eaten fresh by the nobility. Otherwise used to rotate out stockpiled supplies so that none of it ever gets too stale. Keeps the workers happier.
3. Medicinal plants.

The third category would be divided into plants with legitimate medicinal uses. The Arbites in particular would heavily regulate their production. But there will always be a couple plants used to make addicting drugs. And like you said, this is where the Arbites cracks down. Only there is just SO MUCH being grown that they have no hope of catching everything.

SC Guy Sun 10 Apr 2011 16:13:24 No.14545056 Report

Quoted By:

>>14545019

Perhaps they get an infinity symbol put onto their armour. That or...y'know...repaint the armour.

Starshadow Sun 10 Apr 2011 16:20:24 No.14545106 Report

Quoted By: >>14545119 >>14545178 >>14545224

>Perhaps they get an infinity symbol put onto their armour. That or...y'know...repaint the armour.
How about this. When a marine is diagnosed as sleepless his name is struck off the list and the chapter symbol on his armour is replaced by a white infinity symbol. The shoulder trim on his armour is also painted white. But otherwise his armour bears the same colouring it had in the marines previous post.

So a group of recent Sleepless would have a mixed bag of different company colour schemes, with the added white trim. Over time the sleepless tend to paint and carve fractal patterns into their armour which eventually cover up the old paint scheme entirely.

That makes me wonder. What happens to their armour after they die? Power armour is a holy relic that is always passed down to new marines when possible.

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2011 16:21:24 No.14545107 Report

Quoted By:

>>14544989
I'd imagine Sleepless Apothecaries would be rather collected, devoted to recording every moment of their Sleepless days to better help future Brothers...which of course turns fucking horrifying as months upon years of collections turns into near-gibberish that can only be understood by the insane. And the Apothecaries have no idea this is going on. As far as they know they're still saying stuff like "Erratic brain waves reaching unreached peaks" when the playback is something like "Endless tides reach to the skies of the Emperor's domain where I I I I see his light."

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2011 16:21:24 No.14545111 Report

Quoted By:

>>14544925
>Why Nightmares?

>"One thousand and one Nightmares did He dream! One thousand and one Nightmares do stand before you!"

Because that's just fucking badass, and because chapters and legions appear to be uniformly named as plurals. Ultramarines, Iron Hands, Word Bearers, Space Sharks, Storm Wardens, etc. The chapter are Nightmares, and each man a Nightmare.

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2011 16:22:24 No.14545119 Report

Quoted By: >>14554554

>>14545106
Discussed already. Newly promoted Scouts carve out and fill in the patterns, taking the time to honor his fallen brother and remember the days past while looking to the future of his service.

Kjax !!Sv5kJQjt07c Sun 10 Apr 2011 16:30:24 No.14545178 Report

Quoted By:

>>14545106

how about a big bright silver X that quarters the pauldron.

In one quarter goes the company symbol, another gets squad, another gets something denoting his old rank, and the final is a modified version of the chapter symbol.

Even if they can't remember themselves, they are marked such that others can remember who they are, and honour them upon their death.

If you want to take it a step further, when their armor is recovered the pauldron is taken back to the Chapter Monastery to be hung in a great vault and a new pauldron is forged for the suit of armor.

Starshadow Sun 10 Apr 2011 16:35:24 No.14545215 Report

Quoted By:

>The thing is, unlike the techpriests, the apothecarion cares about your health first and foremost. I imagined if an apothecary went sleepless, he'd turn himself in immedietely.
I think this above all is what makes the Sleepless apocs so tragic. They more than anyone else understand what is happening to them and what they will become. (andimustscream.jpg)

But despite that they refuse to quit and spend every moment of every day finding ways to comfort the other Sleepless. Up to and including experimenting on themselves.

Remember, anything that can cause a space marine to fall asleep is a poison of the highest order. A tranquilizer powerful enough to affect the sleepless is enough to instantly put any other marine into a coma.

That is why the EN maintain Hive Quintus as it is. The importing of restricted medicine would already be problematic. But poisons would be regulated to an even higher standard. Perhaps even by the Inquisition. And the medicine used on the sleepless is really just a highly distilled poison.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace sleepless symbol.png, 27KiB, 156x168

Jareddm Sun 10 Apr 2011 16:36:24 No.14545224 Report

Quoted By: >>14545253 >>14545279

>>14545106
Perhaps the trim is painted white and just the infinity symbol on the chapter icon would be painted white?

Starshadow Sun 10 Apr 2011 16:41:24 No.14545253 Report

Quoted By: >>14545279 >>14545281

>>14545224
Hah! Perfect! I totally forgot the chapter symbol already has the infinity logo in it.

Even better. The hourglass is changed to have all of the sand in the bottom half. This is to signify that their time has run out. And the hourglass can no longer be overturned.

SC Guy Sun 10 Apr 2011 16:44:24 No.14545279 Report

Quoted By:

>>14545253
>>14545224

Oh god, perfect!

Jareddm Sun 10 Apr 2011 16:44:24 No.14545281 Report

Quoted By: >>14545398

>>14545253
I tried doing just that and it really doesn't look good unfortunately.

I think it's pretty powerful how much of a stigma the color white has amongst the EN. Not that I wan to incorporate said stigma into the Hive culture though. We need some separation.

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2011 16:57:24 No.14545398 Report

Quoted By: >>14545411 >>14545454 >>14545520

>>14545281
In several Asian countries, White is associated with death, so it could be a funerary color. Also, this is a Hive World, meaning everyone works with their hands and gets dirty. White clothes being dirty from oil, grease, etc... means you're working hard and being productive.

Jareddm Sun 10 Apr 2011 16:59:24 No.14545411 Report

Quoted By: >>14545454

>>14545398
I like it!
And if you're high enough class to not work with your hands, you're wearing purple and gold.

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2011 17:04:24 No.14545454 Report

Quoted By: >>14545464 >>14545525

>>14545411
>>14545398
White being a bad color is going to strain Mechanicus relationships then. The Tech-Priests all wear white robes to distinguish themselves...

SC Guy Sun 10 Apr 2011 17:05:24 No.14545464 Report

Quoted By: >>14545491

>>14545454

I thought the Mechanicus wore red.

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2011 17:08:24 No.14545491 Report

Quoted By: >>14545520 >>14545525

>>14545464
Well, I was thinking of the parts from Sandy Mitchell's Dark Heresy books where Tech-Priests wore white, but they do mostly wear red in the fluff pics.

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2011 17:12:24 No.14545520 Report

Quoted By:

>>14545491
Even in the DH books, the techpriests are probably not pure white, what with being dirty from their sacred work, which would fit right in with the 'working hard and being productive' thing from >>14545398

Jareddm Sun 10 Apr 2011 17:12:24 No.14545525 Report

Quoted By:

>>14545491
>>14545454
Opposite side of the galaxy, different rules and traditios.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace sleepless3.png, 28KiB, 316x172

Starshadow Sun 10 Apr 2011 17:14:24 No.14545541 Report

Quoted By: >>14545559 >>14545569 >>14549038

I don't think its a problem guys. Apothecaries have always been white. EN apocs would have purple and yellow shoulder pads, white shoulder trim and solid white armour. The Deathwing for instance is white as well specifically to honour the dead, though for them its more of a cream colour

Here is my version of the Sleepless chapter symbol. This is what I meant by "only the bottom is filled". There is no sand in the top, and no sand falling. The original is on the right. The background is yellow so this is how it would look on a Primus shoulderpad.

Jareddm Sun 10 Apr 2011 17:16:24 No.14545559 Report

Quoted By:

>>14545541
Ah! I hadn't changed the sand to white! That looks much better than what I was making!

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2011 17:18:24 No.14545569 Report

Quoted By: >>14545599

>>14545541
Personally I think it looks pretty good. It'd be interesting to see what it looked like with the wings white as well, although I'm not sure if that'd look better or not.

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2011 17:20:24 No.14545599 Report

Quoted By: >>14545608 >>14545681

>>14545569
If they're going to be put on Sleepless, they will already have White Shoulders. Better to leave the wings purple. Even if you keep a purple outline while leaving the rest white, it won't look that good.

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2011 17:21:24 No.14545608 Report

Quoted By:

>>14545599
Ah, forgot about the white shoulders, good point

Starshadow Sun 10 Apr 2011 17:22:24 No.14545615 Report

Quoted By: >>14545655

That actually raises an issue we didn't think of. Librarians wear blue armour, Apocs white, and Techmarines rust-red. This is the traditional codex-approved colour scheme.

Primus battlegroup plays this completetly straight. But what about Secundus? They are completetly devoted to stealth. Going so far as to omit the use of gold trim and painting their blades black.

We don't exactly follow the codex so we can make some changes here. Rune priests for instance wear grey just like the rest of the wolves.

I think Secundus Librarians would still have blue armour. Just a darker navy blue instead of the usual ultramarine shade. Their shoulderpads would be identical to the other marines.

Rust red and white are a little harder to cover up though. hmm...

SC Guy Sun 10 Apr 2011 17:26:24 No.14545655 Report

Quoted By:

>>14545615

I don't think the Techmarines are predisposed to picking Primus or Secundus, they just work with the armoury. Librarians are different, because of the differing nature of the powers needed.

Jareddm Sun 10 Apr 2011 17:29:24 No.14545681 Report

Quoted By:

>>14545599
I'm pretty sure just the border of the shoulder gets painted white, where the Ultramarines usually distinguish their companies. Other than that, they'd maintain their battlegroup colors.

Starshadow Sun 10 Apr 2011 17:33:24 No.14545718 Report

Quoted By: >>14545743 >>14545759

Good point. Secundus uses very few vehicles, and certainly doesn't have any Thunderfire cannons. So while they do employ techmarines they would very rarely be seen in combat. In fact probably the ONLY time you would see a Techmarine in the field is when th Devastator dreads are stomping around and blowing shit up. Stealth being pretty moot at that point.

So Secundus Librarians = Darker blue. Techmarines = Normal colour.

What about apocs? They certainly deploy with them. The lack of vehicles would mean evacuating marines to orbit is going to be problematic. But they can't afford having a white marine tagging along for a night mission.

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2011 17:36:24 No.14545743 Report

Quoted By:

>>14545718
Perhaps a dark grey?

Jareddm Sun 10 Apr 2011 17:37:24 No.14545759 Report

Quoted By: >>14545827 >>14545842

>>14545718
In Deathwatch, they get around the color difference between specialties usually by only having the helmet their designated color. Thus the apoc would just have a white helmet (preferably a darker shade than the one used by the sleepless), the techmarine would have a red helmet, and an librarian would have a blue helmet.

SC Guy Sun 10 Apr 2011 17:46:24 No.14545827 Report

Quoted By:

>>14545759

I think this is the best option.

Starshadow Sun 10 Apr 2011 17:47:24 No.14545842 Report

Quoted By:

>>14545759
That makes sense. From the sound of it, EN battle brothers often serve in the Deathwatch. The Blood Ravens by comparison have only had 3 and they have been around for a lot longer.

So Secundus specialist marines would have identical paint schemes as the company they serve in. When that company adopts a camouflage pattern they follow suit.

Specialty is denoted by helmet colour. Librarians have dark navy blue helmets. Techmarines have a dark rust red. And Apothecaries wear flat gray helmets. Compared to the rest of the Secundus colour pallet gray stands out quite well.

You could also add a fluff note that Secundus apoc armour is treated with chemicals to make it light up under the gaze of friendly night vision systems. This makes them easier to pick out in battle.

And when you think about it, mundane white armour is essentially moot in a complete blackout situation anyway.

Wing Zero Sun 10 Apr 2011 17:55:24 No.14545925 Report

Quoted By: >>14545955 >>14545956

Just managed to find time to pop on. Love what you guys are doing. I agree with the Apoc helmet idea, since they would only be in a command squad on the table.

Also, what do you guys think of this dudes sternguard? I think this is a good basis for the nightkin, just needs a different color sceme.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace m1740366a_Blog290311_3_XL.jpg, 174KiB, 873x627

Wing Zero Sun 10 Apr 2011 17:58:24 No.14545955 Report

Quoted By: >>14545974 >>14546111 >>14546218

>>14545925
a picture would help wouldn't it.

SC Guy Sun 10 Apr 2011 17:58:24 No.14545956 Report

Quoted By:

>>14545925

I can't see these Sternguard. Therefore they are perfect for Nightkin.

SC Guy Sun 10 Apr 2011 17:59:24 No.14545974 Report

Quoted By: >>14546058

>>14545955

Agreed! They'd look great with Sniper Rifles.

Starshadow Sun 10 Apr 2011 18:06:24 No.14546039 Report

Quoted By: >>14546170

Did we ever finish working out the relationship between the EN and the Inquisition? This is how I imagined things out so far:

Ordo Xenos: Friendly
From their perspective, we have no dealings with aliens that don't involve shooting them in the face. We also second a lot of awesome marines to serve in the Deathwatch. Including Icelus dreads, which are renowned among the Ordo.

Ordo Hereticus: Tolerant
Ordinarily such a high concentration of Psykers would provoke alarm. But thanks to the protection of the Dreamwalkers Icelus has an extremely low rate of "incidents" relative to the size of its Psyker population. This is noted by the Hereticus, even if they don't understand how it works. One of the Hereticus Black Ships is a regular visitor to Icelus, delivering Psykers to and from the Scholastica.

Ordo Malleus: Suspicious
There was that whole business with Khaliman and our chapter master. Not to mention the repeated claims of defeating daemons in the Dreaming and meeting the emperor. It doesn't help that the EN's have by far the least contact with Malleus inquisitors as a rule. However common, they remain just suspicions because the Malleus barely understands Dreamwalking, and doesn't have enough to decide if its good or bad.

Wing Zero Sun 10 Apr 2011 18:08:24 No.14546058 Report

Quoted By: >>14546076 >>14546140

>>14545974
He dropped the bulky shoulders, added WoC cloaks, helmets from the BT sprue, and forge world bolters.

For a cool stalker pattern bolter, just take a bolter add a scope and extend the barrel with brass rod.

SC Guy Sun 10 Apr 2011 18:09:24 No.14546076 Report

Quoted By:

>>14546058

I've got some Chaos Warriors lying around...Sadly, no marines. I should really give it a try. I'd use sniper rifles, though.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace 1297448223731.png, 185KiB, 288x600

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2011 18:13:24 No.14546111 Report

Quoted By:

>>14545955
Holy shit that's awesome!

Starshadow Sun 10 Apr 2011 18:17:24 No.14546140 Report

Quoted By:

>>14546058
I didn't notice that the shoulders were gone at first. It makes them look more like scouts, which is awesome. That makes perfect sense too. Stealth is a form of armour to Secundus companies.

Jareddm Sun 10 Apr 2011 18:20:24 No.14546170 Report

Quoted By: >>14546242

>>14546039
I don't think we can generalize it this way. Inquisitors are pretty independent and will tend to have their own opinion on things.

Wing Zero Sun 10 Apr 2011 18:21:24 No.14546184 Report

Quoted By: >>14546247

Also, on the subject of Nightkin, I think we should give them access to hellfire rounds. Maybe at 5 pts a model.

Kjax !!Sv5kJQjt07c Sun 10 Apr 2011 18:24:24 No.14546218 Report

Quoted By: >>14546247

>>14545955

I did my chaos chosen this way, works freaking great. Painted the fur up to look like Raven feathers over camo-cloaks.

Starshadow Sun 10 Apr 2011 18:26:24 No.14546242 Report

Quoted By:

>>14546170
I know, which is why I only included the general opinion of the entire order. But for the most part that would be true. Sure there would be the odd Xenos Inquisitor that finds it difficult to work with a marine who keeps falling asleep. And perhaps there might even be a Psyker Inquisitor native to Icelus who balances things out.

There are certainly a couple Inquisitors who think of them as borderline heretical. Just look at the Ecclesiarchy for a lesson in extremes. But as things stand if one Inquisitor tried to outright declare the Nightmares to be traitors and heretics, he would get slapped down HARD.

SC Guy Sun 10 Apr 2011 18:27:24 No.14546247 Report

Quoted By: >>14546351

>>14546184

That'd work, actually. It gives them more of a bite than the standard Operatives, that's for sure.

>>14546218

Lovely, I think I'll go that route myself for the Nightkin.

Wing Zero Sun 10 Apr 2011 18:38:24 No.14546351 Report

Quoted By: >>14546386 >>14546390

>>14546247
Glad to be of service!

Also, I'm taking the rules to my local hobbytown like I said last night. Any lists you guys want me to try? And if anyone has an opinion, do you want me to bring them back to you guys?

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2011 18:39:24 No.14546362 Report

Quoted By: >>14546390 >>14546405

Dontcha think giving these guys helfire makes them a little OP? Theyre bs5 with sniper rifles, scout and those stance things already

Wing Zero Sun 10 Apr 2011 18:41:24 No.14546386 Report

Quoted By: >>14546411

>>14546351
Also, Do you realise how wrong it is to put a secundus libby with a squad of nightkin! I can be sitting out in the open, and benefit from a 3+ cover save from stealth/ going to ground, and still hit on a 3+ with a re-roll!?

SC Guy Sun 10 Apr 2011 18:41:24 No.14546390 Report

Quoted By:

>>14546351

Try whatever feels comfortable, but it'd obviously be better if you tried out some of the Nightmares' unique stuff. And yes, opinions are paramount, we need all the feedback we can get.

I'll add the option for Hellfire rounds to the wiki, in addition to the Dreadnought sleep rule.

>>14546362

Bear in mind that, even unupgraded with nothing but hellfire rounds, you're paying 125pts for 5 guys in power armour.

Wing Zero Sun 10 Apr 2011 18:43:24 No.14546405 Report

Quoted By:

>>14546362
Then lets jump the price up a little. They used to cost 22 pts, not 20. Maybe 25 like a vet? Or higher?

This is before buying upgrades(including hellfire rounds)

SC Guy Sun 10 Apr 2011 18:44:24 No.14546411 Report

Quoted By: >>14546439 >>14546459

>>14546386

And then they get assaulted, and because they went to ground they're helpless, and they've got very little combat bite unless you shell out for power weapons and such, reducing their shooting effectiveness. That said, I was thinking of making them shoot at BS3 when choosing the go-to-ground stance.

SC Guy Sun 10 Apr 2011 18:47:24 No.14546439 Report

Quoted By: >>14546506

>>14546411

And for that matter, that's not how it works. They choose to immediately go to ground at the beginning of their turn, this lasts until the next phase. Therefore they have a 5+ cover save, which when the time comes to use Blackest Night is upgraded to a 4+.

Wing Zero Sun 10 Apr 2011 18:49:24 No.14546459 Report

Quoted By: >>14546512

>>14546411
Yes, but it's a trap. My dreads will be waiting.

I'm ok with this bs of 3.

Starshadow Sun 10 Apr 2011 18:51:24 No.14546482 Report

Quoted By:

Well I'm off. My cycle of meds is such that it completely flipped my sleep cycle. Waking up at around 6pm sucks. I'm slowly dragging it back to normal though which is good.

I'll be back later to work on the colour schemes a bit more.

Wing Zero Sun 10 Apr 2011 18:53:24 No.14546506 Report

Quoted By: >>14546527

>>14546439
and stealth makes any cover save 1 better. so a 3+

SC Guy Sun 10 Apr 2011 18:54:24 No.14546512 Report

Quoted By:

>>14546459

Okay, I changed it. A prime vantage point now reduces the Nightkin to BS3.

SC Guy Sun 10 Apr 2011 18:55:24 No.14546527 Report

Quoted By: >>14546601

>>14546506

Stealth is already factored in there.

Going to ground - 6+
Stealth - 5+
Blackest Night - 4+

Wing Zero Sun 10 Apr 2011 19:01:24 No.14546601 Report

Quoted By: >>14546613

>>14546527
Gotcha, my bad.

Well, I'm off. I'll be back tonight with word on my playtests.

SC Guy Sun 10 Apr 2011 19:02:24 No.14546613 Report

Quoted By:

>>14546601

Enjoy!

Jareddm Sun 10 Apr 2011 19:49:24 No.14547050 Report

Quoted By: >>14547235

A couple questions to be answered:

Who's in charge of fleet command? Since we're fairly light on starships, it might even have to be a marine.

What's the distribution for the Hellfire dreadnoughts by company?
There was talk earlier about assigning them to companies, but I feel some secundus companies might make use of 1 or 2 hellfire dreads as well as a distraction for insertion and extraction.

SC Guy Sun 10 Apr 2011 20:09:24 No.14547235 Report

Quoted By:

>>14547050

We can just make someone up for the Fleet Commander, really. Any old name will do.

Perhaps Secundus can requisition Hellfires when they need to.

SC Guy Sun 10 Apr 2011 20:34:24 No.14547519 Report

Quoted By: >>14547722

I'm actually quite excited about Wing Zero's preliminary playtesting. I've made motions for this before, but I may start a little playtest group in Vassal40k sometime. Anybody be up for that?

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2011 20:53:24 No.14547722 Report

Quoted By:

>>14547519
I'd need to 1: get it 2: get it running and 3: learn 40goddamnk. I'm ridiculously invested in this chapter considering I've never bloody well played it.

Also, on that note, holy shit I like the Sleepless white hourglass and the drained sand. Sons, I am proud.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace ENSleepless.png, 99KiB, 704x772

Comfy_Cushion Sun 10 Apr 2011 20:54:24 No.14547734 Report

Quoted By: >>14547774 >>14547822 >>14547884

Okay, so I worked on the sleepless symbol. It's a little rough in places, but I used my laptop's trackpad to do it, so that's to be expected.

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2011 20:58:24 No.14547774 Report

Quoted By:

>>14547734
Very well done, but I missed if we decided on an all-white conversion for Sleepless.
Personally it just makes me think of Snow Owls.

Jareddm Sun 10 Apr 2011 21:03:24 No.14547822 Report

Quoted By: >>14547884

>>14547734
It feels a little too white.

I think at the moment, it's either my original one of just the white hourglass, keeping the sand purple

Or the one with the sand run out and the sand now white instead.

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2011 21:08:24 No.14547884 Report

Quoted By:

>>14547822
>>14547734
Let's try one last thing--can someone make the sands purple again in the all-white owlglass?

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace ENSleepless.png, 47KiB, 358x386

Comfy_Cushion Sun 10 Apr 2011 21:15:24 No.14547967 Report

Quoted By: >>14548522

Alright, here it is with purple sand.

Btw, I made the newest version of the symbol, so if you want to see something changed, go ahead and ask me, and i'll put it together for you.

SC Guy Sun 10 Apr 2011 22:09:24 No.14548522 Report

Quoted By: >>14548653

>>14547967

The Sleepless symbol is very...eerie, in a way. Next to the regular owlglass, anyway.

Jareddm Sun 10 Apr 2011 22:24:24 No.14548653 Report

Quoted By:

>>14548522
Agreed

The all white is pretty overpowering, and
the purple sand on all white is a kinda difficult to see.

I'm still leaning towards my original one

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2011 23:03:24 No.14549038 Report

Quoted By:

>>14545541
My money's on this, with sand the original color.

...Shit, the hourglass symbol gets a whole new significance this way.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace white.png, 100KiB, 704x772

Jareddm Sun 10 Apr 2011 23:07:24 No.14549090 Report

Quoted By: >>14549098

>with sand the original color.

so...this?

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2011 23:08:24 No.14549098 Report

Quoted By: >>14549142

>>14549090
Yes. If you want to try one more thing, maybe make the sand in the bottom either fill the glass, or markedly full, but given that it's stylized it may not be necessary.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace whiteonyellow.png, 101KiB, 704x772

Jareddm Sun 10 Apr 2011 23:12:24 No.14549142 Report

Quoted By: >>14549291 >>14549739

>>14549098
Even still, here it is on the yellow background, which is what it would be on a primus marine

You know...I could live with that one...

SC Guy Sun 10 Apr 2011 23:24:24 No.14549291 Report

Quoted By:

>>14549142

That works.

Captcha: Orsize issues

Too slow, Captcha. We resolved that already.

Anonymous Sun 10 Apr 2011 23:25:24 No.14549301 Report

Quoted By: >>14549350

Thread's archived and added to the wiki.

SC Guy Sun 10 Apr 2011 23:30:24 No.14549350 Report

Quoted By:

>>14549301

Good man.

Jareddm Mon 11 Apr 2011 00:15:24 No.14549739 Report

Quoted By: >>14549755

>>14549142
If this is our official Sleepless Icon, we should probably stick it up on the wiki as well.

SC Guy Mon 11 Apr 2011 00:18:24 No.14549755 Report

Quoted By:

>>14549739

That we should.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace ENSleepless.png, 47KiB, 354x381

Comfy_Cushion Mon 11 Apr 2011 00:39:24 No.14549962 Report

Quoted By:

Well, I'm not big on the purple wings, but if that's what everyone wants, I guess I can roll with it.

Comfy_Cushion Mon 11 Apr 2011 00:44:24 No.14549998 Report

Quoted By:

And now it's on the wiki:

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Emperor%27s_Nightmare#Gallery

Magi Mon 11 Apr 2011 00:48:24 No.14550035 Report

Quoted By: >>14550093

You could stick the local PDF force uniform up on there if you like

SC Guy Mon 11 Apr 2011 00:55:24 No.14550093 Report

Quoted By:

>>14550035

I think the PDF uniform belongs on the Icelus page, which is still a work in progress.

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 01:27:24 No.14550434 Report

Quoted By: >>14550523 >>14550613

OG res/tg/uardian contributor here. Just caught up with this thread and I wanted to remind you that you are awesome /tg/. I am so proud of you. This new fluff is outstanding. I'm also pleasantly surprised that most of the bits and pieces I wrote are still generally approved of and canon.

I'm loving how Icelus is coming together as a planet. The Astartes are just part of a much larger, much richer setting now. I'd like to see more stuff worked out about the techno-shamans and the ash wastes smugglers as well now that we have these great hives for them to travel between.

By the by I saw something mentioned a while back about those spare dreadnought chassis. They're not exactly spare IIRC. They're for Gavroche to switch between when he feels like showing off by being stealthy in an ironclad. That said, no real reason someone else couldn't use those chassis too. Or it could be retconned. I'm pretty sure that's how it was a thread or two ago though.

SC Guy Mon 11 Apr 2011 01:35:24 No.14550523 Report

Quoted By: >>14550784

>>14550434

Glad you're liking it, I'm keen on getting more on Icelus done myself, I'm in love with the bloody place. Be proud, my man, you've created something which has captured the imagination many people.

...Aha, the Gavroche thing makes sense.

Jareddm Mon 11 Apr 2011 01:42:24 No.14550613 Report

Quoted By: >>14550693 >>14550784

>>14550434
We had mentioned before that most of the current wasteland wanderers can trace themselves back to a Redemptionist sect that assaulted Icelus as a side-effect to an Echlesiarchal backlash when information about the EN's mutation started to spread.

Jareddm Mon 11 Apr 2011 01:45:24 No.14550647 Report

Quoted By: >>14550693

Maybe not all of them but I imagine there's still a very strong hatred for the EN amongst the nomads, even after 2000 years.

SC Guy Mon 11 Apr 2011 01:49:24 No.14550693 Report

Quoted By: >>14550791

>>14550613
>>14550647

Mhm. For some reason I see them as sorta like Star Wars Tuskan Raiders.

Ekoi !PpcsYfrVrw Mon 11 Apr 2011 01:49:24 No.14550703 Report

Quoted By: >>14550791

A reason why the white owlglass might be having issues is because you're not changing the colors enough.

Try using one of the darker purples for the trim on white areas instead of the gold. This should help make it pop more while fitting in with the purple areas. Maybe even try replacing all of the gold trim with if if you want.

ANYWAY, EKOI COMES HERE WITH A FLUFF IDEA.

How about a very large hourglass in the chapter's chapels? Nightmares could come here to meditate or ease their restless minds by counting the holy sands as they fall, be it with their eyes or their ears.

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 01:51:24 No.14550718 Report

Quoted By: >>14550824

I was thinking about the Fleet Commander, actually. Since it doesn't have anything done.

The only thing I have, though, is a title. I was thinking that maybe Changer of the Glass might work.

Because if an Astartes fleet shows up to help you, the hour glass that was suddenly running out just flipped around...

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 01:56:24 No.14550784 Report

Quoted By: >>14550939

>>14550523
Yeah I'm liking the place so much now I'm going to run a Dark Heresy game or six out of it.

>>14550613
Oh really? Cool, I must've missed that.It's kind of a theme on this planet that the downtrodden masses hatehatehate the Astartes isn't it? The redemptionists' descendants can't have lost ALL their ancestors beliefs after all and that grandmother and her army or gang or terrorist cell or whatever in hive Primus isn't exactly the Nightmares' biggest fan either.

Lotta potential for good drama, good conflict and good stories.

One thing I'm curious about is where the techno-shamanism fits in to all that. Have the redemptionists based all their machine use off of the teachings of the one techpriest they had with them before he died or did the machine use come from the culture and climate of Icelus? Both angles could have potential, with a single techpriest as this weird messianic (and now quite heretical) figurehead one way, or alternatively this stubborn and backwards culture has been forced to make one major change and adopt the heavy tech use of the very culture they came to cleanse just to survive.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace 1302482373306.png, 48KiB, 354x381

Jareddm Mon 11 Apr 2011 01:56:24 No.14550791 Report

Quoted By:

>>14550693
I got the exact same image...except of course with creepy-as-hell hooked nose rebreather masks on all of them.

>>14550703
hmm...let's see how that goes...

Jareddm Mon 11 Apr 2011 01:59:24 No.14550824 Report

Quoted By: >>14550909 >>14551774

>>14550718
Perfect, because I only had a name.

Luca Sylana, Changer of the Glass

A good idea, I'm trying to see if there's another term for the flipping of an hourglass.

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 02:06:24 No.14550909 Report

Quoted By: >>14550943 >>14551008

>>14550824
Glass-Turner.

Also, not all poor and impoverished hate the astartes--some see them as a way out of their life, or a way for their children to have a better life, even if it means a guarantee of death in battle. Anything's better than squalor. Or even just honoring their family name with high service to the Emperor.
We definitely seem to have Fionnel coming from poverty.

SC Guy Mon 11 Apr 2011 02:08:24 No.14550939 Report

Quoted By: >>14551008

>>14550784

I like it. Perhaps they held out staunchly, wandering the wastes looking for a sign from the Emperor, or signs they were going to be rescued. None came, and a sympathiser sent the news that the Cardinal was dead. It'd be natural to despair, and some people would turn to the Machine Cult for guidance.

Jareddm Mon 11 Apr 2011 02:08:24 No.14550943 Report

Quoted By: >>14550978

>>14550909
I think the difference is between coming from the Underhive vs coming from the wastelands, outside of the Hives entirely.

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 02:10:24 No.14550978 Report

Quoted By: >>14551052

>>14550943
There's definitely a lot of hate in the hive itself, as well. Probably much more common on the wastes, though.

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 02:13:24 No.14551008 Report

Quoted By:

>>14550909
Oh that's a very good point too. Interesting, interesting.

>>14550939
Oh wow I wasn't even considering a full on crisis of faith. That's pretty damn cool too. Third angle then.

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 02:18:24 No.14551052 Report

Quoted By: >>14551063

>>14550978
Yeah. The hive still has people alive in it who remember the sleepless ironclad that killed their families lets not forget.

And maybe it's just me but I think the idea of a grief-hardened badass grandma becoming a provocative demagogue, seizing control of arms shipments and going all guerrilla terrorist is kind of awesome.

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 02:19:24 No.14551063 Report

Quoted By: >>14551105

>>14551052
...I don't think it was an ironclad or even a dreadnought, dude.

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 02:22:24 No.14551105 Report

Quoted By: >>14551181 >>14551206

>>14551063
Unless something has suddenly changed, the sleepless that escaped into hive Primus was always a waking dead dreadnought. We even had a big argument about four threads ago over whether it was an icelus dreadnought as well and decided that it was not on the grounds that we were overusing iceluses and the other dreads needed some time to shine. hence ironclad.

Emergency Chair Warmer Mon 11 Apr 2011 02:27:24 No.14551158 Report

Quoted By: >>14551173 >>14551228

Hmm, what are the wastes outside the hives? I have ideas forming in my head for a story.

SC Guy Mon 11 Apr 2011 02:29:24 No.14551173 Report

Quoted By:

>>14551158

"Geography: Barren ash wastes, flat and arid other than a massive mountain range straddling its equator. Large pits dot the landscape, most likely remnants of ancient lakes and seas."

Jareddm Mon 11 Apr 2011 02:30:24 No.14551181 Report

Quoted By: >>14551206 >>14551250

>>14551105
I think it has changed. I don't remember when, but I do remember it being switched to a Sleepless marine

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 02:32:24 No.14551206 Report

Quoted By: >>14551384

>>14551105
>>14551181
Yeah, I remember the conversation going another way. I think we decided it was a sleepless marine, not a dreadnought, since if it was an Icelus, the hivers would probably never know what was the cause.

>Cambridge, titypeen
...Tittypeen?

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 02:33:24 No.14551228 Report

Quoted By:

>>14551158
visually I've always pictured it as bleak but still.

No desert of rolling sands here. The landscape is barren but it is mostly rock. The detritus of industry is scattered everywhere. Burned out shells of vehicles, tanks and landcrawlers from centuries past litter the planet and salvage crews eke out a miserable existence scavenging and selling spare parts at the few waystations and settlements.

Since there were once oceans and surface water there would be extensive cave networks. I imagine that clans would mostly be divided into nomadic and hermetic. With the more technologically capable ones riding around in massive convoys of landcrawlers and jeeps and the more primitive and regressive elements mining deeper and deeper into the caves at the bottom of the now-dry ocean...

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 02:35:24 No.14551250 Report

Quoted By: >>14551298

>>14551181
huh. Well I'm not sure I like that retcon, but I'm not sure I care either. I guess that's one of the perils of community projects like this. If you go away for a few days, things move on without your input. C'est la vie.

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 02:38:24 No.14551298 Report

Quoted By: >>14551422

>>14551250
I don't even remember hearing about the ironclad, and I've been in every thread since 3. Go back through the archives, it'll be there.
Also, an ironclad is kind of weird. It lumbered out in siege gear and went on a reign of terror for a prolonged period without being caught and brought down?

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 02:44:24 No.14551384 Report

Quoted By:

>>14551206
as I recall that discussion (thread eight right?) was about making it a normal dread, not fully revoking dreadnought status. The icelus was too much for the reasons you state but I remember no mention of a full downgrade to power armour.

That said, power armour makes sense for why he could evade the Nightmares and pdf for so long, but I kinda liked that he was a dreadnought. The EN had to bring in fucking tanks and shit to take him down and that destruction as much as anything the dread did cemented the hate that festers in the underhive to this day.

Now as far as escaping in the first place the power armour makes the most sense (next to a librarian or icelus which he isn't either way), but the chapter wouldn't cause as much mass destruction themselves trying to recapture him. A marine can be subdued without lascannons and ordnance but taking down a dreadnought in a city environment requires fully going to war.

Okay done playing devil's advocate. I like the new way just fine too. Either way something horrible happened and it soured relations with the civilians. That's what matters.

Emergency Chair Warmer Mon 11 Apr 2011 02:46:24 No.14551407 Report

Quoted By: >>14551505

What kind of mechanized units does the PDF have access to?

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 02:47:24 No.14551422 Report

Quoted By: >>14551461

>>14551298
It's possible actually that I just made up the ironclad bit now come to think of it I don't know where I got that. The discussion I'm thinking of was just about converting an icelus to a normal dread because the icelus was being overused (because it is awesome and everyone naturally wants to put it everywhere).

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 02:50:24 No.14551461 Report

Quoted By: >>14551585

>>14551422
That and the icelus would be a bloody Predator in the Hive.
I'm perfectly okay with an escaped Dread, for the record, I just wasn't sure if we had decided on a marine because dreads had been overused in the fluff thus far.

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 02:54:24 No.14551505 Report

Quoted By:

>>14551407
Valkyries, Chimeras, probably rhinos. MAYBE razorbacks.

As an aside, I've been thinking that there needs to be a way to give nightkin and other elite stealth units access to a landspeeder storm as a dedicated transport. Possibly by lowering the minimum squad size to 3 and saying thats how many marines will fit? I dunno it just seems to me that given what the storm is it makes even more sense for secundus operatives to use it than it does scouts.

Plus the image of two or three hyper elite nightmare commandos sniping out of a landspeeder from half a mile away and half a mile up is just... cool.

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 03:02:24 No.14551585 Report

Quoted By:

>>14551461
A power armoured marine would similarly be a predator though. The icelus, very scary and very stealthy though it is, is really only shockingly stealthy when compared to a normal dreadnought. A sleepless secundus marine could probably be almost as stealthy in a hive environment despite the fact that he has no camo cloak or stummers.

The only real argument for keeping it an escaped dreadnought is that it would require mass destruction to take down the war machine in addition to the destruction it caused by itself. Escape is less believable with the dreadnought since it wasn't psychic and couldn't telekinetically rebuild itself, but on the other hand a power armoured sleepless can be restrained by the phobetor dreads and they're much easier to keep in line as a result.

The more I talk about it the less I know where I stand on this.

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 03:15:24 No.14551735 Report

Quoted By: >>14552142 >>14552153

Question, but have we talked at all about a Dawn marine reaching Sleeplessness? Or a Chaplin?

I think we've done Dusk marines quite a lot, and Tech marines I think either turn into Golems that continue to do one task amazingly well, or kinda like crazy Doc Ock 'Waking Steel'.

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 03:20:24 No.14551774 Report

Quoted By:

>>14550824

Turning?

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 03:57:24 No.14552142 Report

Quoted By:

>>14551735
Well dawn marines would make good use of their ever enhancing senses in combat. They would master the secrets of fluidity quickly --almost instinctively-- but considered as a group they would likely plateau in ability at some point as for the most part Dawn Sleepless would not be expected to live as long as those who hailed from Secundus companies for obvious reasons. They would be brutally efficient, making quick work of enemies as they spot weaknesses at the speed of thought. I could see an informal competition being set up to see which Primus Sleepless can get the most kills in the least time. Something formally discouraged by the apothecarion but tolerated as it helps with the moral of these poor souls.

I have no idea what a sleepless chaplain would be like. I don't even know where to begin.

Jareddm Mon 11 Apr 2011 03:58:24 No.14552153 Report

Quoted By: >>14552261

>>14551735
I don't think there's too much of a difference between the two battlegroups after becoming Sleepless. All the sleepless (except for the techmarine sleepless) are grouped together anyway.

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 04:07:24 No.14552261 Report

Quoted By: >>14552284

>>14552153
generally speaking yeah, but each marine will still have their individual predilections, skills and hobbies. Hence why we get mad artificer techmarines and so on in the first place. The sleepless are not grouped together because they're functionally the same at this point (they aren't) but for the sake of giving them someone to socialize with, to contain them, and for the apothecarion to study them all more easily.

The chambers of the Sleepless at the fortress of Betten-Burgen must be an amazing place. I would kill to sit in on one of their magic shows...

Jareddm Mon 11 Apr 2011 04:09:42 No.14552284 Report

Quoted By: >>14552332

>>14552261
What I meant was that the Sleepless are deployed as a whole, regardless of what Battlegroup they were from.

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 04:14:42 No.14552332 Report

Quoted By: >>14552441

>>14552284
oh, yeah,

Although I would more say "they are fielded as a group" rather than "they are fielded as a whole" since while any sleepless deployed to a warzone would be kept together and under the care of the apothecarion not every single sleepless is kept in the same place at the same time all the time.

Persnickety detail I know...

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace Workprogress.jpg, 381KiB, 1000x1500

Jareddm Mon 11 Apr 2011 04:26:42 No.14552441 Report

Quoted By: >>14552494 >>14553153

>>14552332
Indeed, I realized my error right after posting

I think were our effort should be focused now is on fleshing out the other captains and their titles. It's the last major piece on our organization chart.

And for anyone worried about people wanting to make their own Captains for the TT, there is the title of Acting-Captain, a fairly common title given when a designated captain is asleep.

Wing Zero Mon 11 Apr 2011 04:30:42 No.14552477 Report

Quoted By: >>14552496 >>14552497

Gentlemen! I return to you from my first playtest and shitty job. I have good and bad news, which do you want to hear first?

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 04:34:42 No.14552494 Report

Quoted By: >>14552517

>>14552441
Good thought. And there can be one or two actings- for each role anyway, since a second might be asleep.

As for the Fleet Command, I suspect they use their small ships to excellent advantage. Close-knit even on the macro level, they provide cover and overwatch for one another as they cannot afford heavy naval losses.
Given their proximity, they often face Tyranid splinter fleets, and their talent for evolution means being adaptable.
Other than that, I figure a favored tactic is a variant of the Section and Stinger, where a single unit, perhaps a Strike Cruiser, is left 'exposed' and vulnerable, with three or four others ready to intercede from hiding with running dark--probably towards the solar center, "from the sun." This tactic is known often as Dawn-from-Dusk, erupting out of the star's blindspot, their systems powering up and slowly brightening like the sun cresting the horizon.

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 04:34:42 No.14552496 Report

Quoted By:

>>14552477
Bad news. Best start on ironing out what we can.

Jareddm Mon 11 Apr 2011 04:34:42 No.14552497 Report

Quoted By:

>>14552477
Bad news

Jareddm Mon 11 Apr 2011 04:36:42 No.14552517 Report

Quoted By:

>>14552494
I imagine there's a whole chain going doing the list of Sergeants depending on who's awake when.

Wing Zero Mon 11 Apr 2011 04:48:42 No.14552617 Report

Quoted By: >>14552646 >>14552731

Bad news:

The Icelus is fucking broken!!! I ate a 10 man squad of grey hunters (the supposed best troops in the game) alive in one round of combat! It was the only thing that really urked people, but I've got some notes on how to fix this issue. Also, I've got someone who talks out of their ass about "unit changes".

I only really got 1 game in, but I felt it would have been mine. I only fielded the custom units we've made along with Captain Hector. I'll post the list in a second.

SC Guy Mon 11 Apr 2011 04:50:42 No.14552646 Report

Quoted By: >>14552806

>>14552617

I see...I'll admit, I didn't expect this to be a problem.

And the good news?

Wing Zero Mon 11 Apr 2011 04:55:42 No.14552706 Report

Quoted By:

HQ:
Captain hector 195
libby 100
secundus upgrade 20

Elites:
5 nightkin 125
hellfire rounds 25
rocket launcher 10

troops:
5 scouts 75
snipers x5
camo cloaks 15
secundus ops 20

5 sleepless 100
5 power weapons 75
5 jump paks 75

fast attack:
3 icelus dreads 255
storm shield 30

heavy support:
2 hellfire dreads 310
4x twin auto cannons 20

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 04:57:42 No.14552731 Report

Quoted By: >>14552765

>>14552617
Before we change the rules--or perhaps just make a second listing--try one that your opponent can krak-missile or the like.

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 04:58:42 No.14552743 Report

Quoted By: >>14552780

>>14541731
who is isaac?`

Wing Zero Mon 11 Apr 2011 04:59:42 No.14552754 Report

Quoted By:

good news:

Night kin/ libby combo scared my opponent enough that he ignored them. Also night kin are BEAST. Definitely a mainstay for me. Also, sleepless work beautifully, but thats to be expected because they are just death company. Hellfires worked great, almost wiped a long fang squad in the first turn. But I have some changes we might want to consider.

And I might be getting a couple more people to get involved with this project.

SC Guy Mon 11 Apr 2011 05:00:42 No.14552765 Report

Quoted By:

Interesting list, I like it. Tests a lot out. How'd you find the playstyle in general?

>>14552731

Of course. The key to successful playtesting is to do it a lot, with lots of different armies.

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 05:03:42 No.14552780 Report

Quoted By: >>14552829 >>14552832

>>14552743
Isaac of Tertius, a chapter martyr. Originally a pseudo-rubric marine due to a curse, we changed him to be the first Chaplain, killed in a fierce battle in the dreamlands. His sacrifice gave the chapter part of the daemon's true name, something they think they can use to revive their Chapter Master and destroy Khaliman once and for all.

Wing Zero Mon 11 Apr 2011 05:06:42 No.14552806 Report

Quoted By: >>14552863 >>14553990

>>14552646
Neither did I, until I put them on the table. Then it donned on me how under priced they really are. I would have had 3 first turn assaults on the first turn if it wasn't for his Chooser of the slain!

Then I got our local vet player to run over the rules, he flipped a shit! The worst part was, he's right. They have to many rules, 3 in one slot is to much, tey're under priced a shit load (quote), and have to many useless upgrades. He honestly felt that if this were a real dex, nobody would take anything but icelus'.

"They not only dominate the fast attack slot, they dominate half of the choices in the whole army." Was his final opinion.

Jareddm Mon 11 Apr 2011 05:09:42 No.14552829 Report

Quoted By:

>>14552780
Arguably

The True Name thing was never really decided on. More importantly was he was the one, working alongside Brother Tibalt (pre-dreadnought) who developed the Dreamcatchers and all of the traditions and rituals that go with them.

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 05:09:42 No.14552832 Report

Quoted By:

>>14552780
whoa badass. my name is isaac too, thats why i asked haha

SC Guy Mon 11 Apr 2011 05:12:42 No.14552863 Report

Quoted By: >>14552984 >>14553005

>>14552806

I see. Although I'm not going to make any changes now, my preliminary evaluation is that we take away Infiltrate. Let them work their way up like the stealthy badasses they are, give the enemy a chance to shoot 'em. Also, Furious Charge would be taken off too, in my opinion. Let's give the poor bastards SOME chance.

Starshadow Mon 11 Apr 2011 05:19:42 No.14552925 Report

Quoted By: >>14552955

Hey I'm back.

> Shoulder-less Nightkin
This is so awesome that we should make this fluff standard. Nightkin often remove their shoulder pads to aid stealth when wearing power armour. And really, taking enemy fire is not something they do often, as you can imagine...

Alternately they can remove their right shoulderpad only and cover up the left shoulderpad with thier camo cloaks. This aids stealth a bit and doesn't force them to ditch the chapter symbol. While still covering up the chapter symbol with camouflage.

... now I'm imagining Nightkin in ghillie suits.

> Revised sleepless banner with white hourglass and purple sand
My problem with this is that when you draw the purple sand on a Secundus shoulderpad it lacks contrast. Purple wings and white sand looks the best IMO. White sand also helps to differentiate them from the rest of the chapter.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace Waste wanderer 1 copy.jpg, 147KiB, 600x800

Magi Mon 11 Apr 2011 05:19:42 No.14552927 Report

Quoted By: >>14552955

Heres a wasteland wanderer for you

SC Guy Mon 11 Apr 2011 05:22:42 No.14552955 Report

Quoted By:

>>14552927

Did I ever mention I love you? My goodness...Just when I was about to put a gallery on the Icelus page too.

>>14552925

Agreed, it's a cool concept.

Wing Zero Mon 11 Apr 2011 05:25:42 No.14552984 Report

Quoted By: >>14553027 >>14553990

>>14552863
I went over the sheet, my changes are as follows:
-drop the 1-3 in one slot (Each secundus has three attached, seemed good for them to each take a slot)
-increase points value, tweek stat line slightly
-drop chainfist/ thunder hammer (its a stealthy monstrous creature chain and thunder are useless and pricey)
-add relic blade? (for something different besides fist)
-drop assault cannon (noisy, and over priced)
-drop combat tactics/ furious charge/ and hit n run
-maybe drop infiltrate for scout?
-make powerfists 20 points each
-add auto cannon for 15 points

Wing Zero Mon 11 Apr 2011 05:27:42 No.14553005 Report

Quoted By: >>14553010 >>14553990

Wing Zero Mon 11 Apr 2011 05:28:42 No.14553010 Report

Quoted By: >>14553048

>>14553005
sorry about that, my computer had a hissy fit.

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 05:30:42 No.14553027 Report

Quoted By:

>>14552984
Maybe make separate lists for Icelus Assault and Icelus Covert loadouts. The silent assault cannon was one of the best images the stories have given us.

SC Guy Mon 11 Apr 2011 05:32:42 No.14553048 Report

Quoted By: >>14553105

>>14553010

It's fine. For the most part I agree.

Chain has already been taken out, since it's redundant on an MC.
1 per slot is better, definitely.
The Assault Cannon ISN'T noisy, which is another creepy factor. It could stand to get reduced in pointage considering what it takes away.
Relic Blade could be interesting.
I'm not sure about removing Hit & Run, since it seems to fit the fluff so well.

Starshadow Mon 11 Apr 2011 05:35:42 No.14553069 Report

Quoted By: >>14553085 >>14553088 >>14553093

> Luca Sylana, Changer of the Glass, Master of the Fleet
I like this idea. Also since we already have a huge cast of special characters, I thought of a fluff way to keep him off the TT.

Basically Luca is a Space Marine in all but name. During his initiation it was noted that he left Hive Primus without a flower and is one of the very few aspirants to come across a wild flower in the wastes.

However during the implantation process his body rejected the critical Black Carapace. Luca would never be able to wear power armour like his brothers. Unwilling to waste his potential, the Chapter decided to make him a scout nonetheless. He served with distinction, demonstrating a highly developed spacial sense. Often calling in accurate artillery strikes by eye alone.

When it came time to promote him. The Wake decided to assign him permanently to the EN's space fleet. It was in this role that he thrived, and eventually replaced his mentor, the previous Master of the Fleet. He commands Battle Barge Lucidity to this day.

If the player decides to deploy a Master of the Fleet to the TT. This isn't actually him, but his un-named second in command who takes over when he must sleep.

Wing Zero Mon 11 Apr 2011 05:35:42 No.14553075 Report

Quoted By:

Also, on the subject of changes I think the following would work for the hellfire's:
-make front armor 12 (I heard bitching, they may have a point)
-drop to I2 and A1 (shows it's for range, not cc)

Also, while I like them in fast attack, I think we could make Icelus' heavy support. It would keep the two new dreads from being abused.

Wing Zero Mon 11 Apr 2011 05:37:42 No.14553085 Report

Quoted By:

>>14553069
I like it. We're making quite the band of messed up marines here.

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 05:37:42 No.14553088 Report

Quoted By:

>>14553069
I suggest "Turner of the Glass" instead of "Changer."

Jareddm Mon 11 Apr 2011 05:38:42 No.14553093 Report

Quoted By:

>>14553069
From my understanding, usually unless a chapter is entirely fleet-based, the Master of the fleet is a human.

This is an interesting compromise. I like it!

Wing Zero Mon 11 Apr 2011 05:39:42 No.14553105 Report

Quoted By: >>14553128

>>14553048
I feel the Grey knights huge sword bits calling out to me!

Also, I got my hands on two of the new psycannons. With a little imagination, they could be our dark flare guns?

SC Guy Mon 11 Apr 2011 05:42:42 No.14553128 Report

Quoted By:

>>14553105

That could work. I was thinking of crossing a flamer with a bolter, but that certainly works too.

The Gallery is up on the Icelus page.

www.1d4chan.org/Icelus

Wing Zero Mon 11 Apr 2011 05:45:42 No.14553153 Report

Quoted By: >>14553175 >>14553183

Does anyone else look at >>14552441 and the tabletop rules and get a genuine feeling of accomplishment?

We've been at it for 12 threads, and I feel we could go another 12 and still keep right on going.

Jareddm Mon 11 Apr 2011 05:48:42 No.14553175 Report

Quoted By: >>14553183

>>14553153
You're damn right we do!
In fact, when we get the chart finished, I think I'm gonna get it blown up into a poster!

Wing Zero Mon 11 Apr 2011 05:49:42 No.14553182 Report

Quoted By:

It just dawned on me, Starshadow, why don't we use your name for a secundus company? Seventh comp is giving me a good ring

"Seventh Company, Starshadows"

SC Guy Mon 11 Apr 2011 05:49:42 No.14553183 Report

Quoted By: >>14553245

>>14553153

Yep. Things are really coming into their own now. Each and every single one of you rock.

Also, I reckon once it's done that table should take pride of place on the main Nightmare thread.

>>14553175

Haha, awesome.

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 05:51:42 No.14553202 Report

Quoted By:

I haven't taken up a trip or posted my stuff yet, but I will admit I'm going back through the threads and writing down my accomplishments, so I know what I've done. I've put a lot into this chapter, and I'm damn proud of how far we've come.
God-Emperor bless each and every one of you.

SC Guy Mon 11 Apr 2011 05:54:42 No.14553232 Report

Quoted By: >>14553265 >>14553990

So, I think some of these Icelus changes, in retrospect, are just common sense.

Replace Infiltrate with Scout
Remove Thunder Hammer
Add Relic Blade, Autocannon

I think these can be implemented now. What do you think?

Wing Zero Mon 11 Apr 2011 05:54:42 No.14553245 Report

Quoted By: >>14553263

>>14553183
Agreed.

Should we tweak the sleepless, and make them a little less like death company? I don't really care one way or another.

Also! My one buddy told me we should increase the cost of the sleepless!? He felt they were underpriced, I told him the were a stripped down form of death company for the same cost. He didn't really know about death comp, so I just told him to shove it!

SC Guy Mon 11 Apr 2011 05:57:42 No.14553263 Report

Quoted By:

>>14553245

I dunno, I think they're already as far away from Death Company as is fluffy. They have no FNP unless a Phobetor is taken, and they can fly off the handle and attack their own guys if an IC isn't present.

Wing Zero Mon 11 Apr 2011 05:57:42 No.14553265 Report

Quoted By: >>14553280 >>14553302

>>14553232
Sure, I'll play test it some time this week. But what about cost? I do see where they are coming from with that. I'd say up around 120- 130 would be a good spot. What do you guys think?

SC Guy Mon 11 Apr 2011 05:58:42 No.14553280 Report

Quoted By: >>14553302 >>14553336

>>14553265

It feels odd pricing it higher than a dreadnought considering how bloody fragile it is. I'd say 125 absolute maximum.

Starshadow Mon 11 Apr 2011 06:00:42 No.14553294 Report

Quoted By:

>It just dawned on me, Starshadow, why don't we use your name for a secundus company? Seventh comp is giving me a good ring

>"Seventh Company, Starshadows"
Hey if you guys want to go for that. I'd be honoured!

I can envision it too. 7th company takes night fighting and turns it into an art. Even more so than the other Secundus companies. And because they only come out at night, often the only light to cast shadows will come from stars.

That reminds me, I need to finish fluffing out Dusk blades. Its a black power sword. And I bet the marines who use it would only activate it moments before striking so that the lightning field doesn't give them away.

Kind of poetic. For the enemies of man. When the Starshadows are on the prowl, the flash of lightning against a sea of stars is often the last thing they see...

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 06:00:42 No.14553302 Report

Quoted By: >>14553330 >>14553331

>>14553280
>>14553265
With the changes here, same cost, less effective model, no?
Only change one variable at a time.
Make multiple sets of rules for Icelus with different point costs and rules, see what you get.

Jareddm Mon 11 Apr 2011 06:04:42 No.14553330 Report

Quoted By:

>>14553302
The problem if you're going to do that, you'd need to be able to play at least one full game.

You can change multiple terms in order to reduce the amount of playtesting required, it just means they'll be some confounding.

SC Guy Mon 11 Apr 2011 06:04:42 No.14553331 Report

Quoted By:

>>14553302

Yeah, let's just adjust the obvious things (Forgot to add 1 per slot as a common sense option) and keep it at 85.

Wing Zero Mon 11 Apr 2011 06:05:42 No.14553336 Report

Quoted By: >>14553359

>>14553280
115? It's 10 more than a regular dread, but gets so much more.

Also, one thing we should change for sleepless is initiative. It wasn't even fair when I got 20 str5 ini6 pwr weapon attacks on that grey hunters squad. And that was before I used the captains attacks!

Also, for 'faltering reality' we have them use the independent char's leadership rather then just ignor the rule. It would make things tricky, no matter how we use sleepless.

Jareddm Mon 11 Apr 2011 06:05:42 No.14553337 Report

Quoted By: >>14553366

>at least one full game per change

fixed

Jareddm Mon 11 Apr 2011 06:07:42 No.14553349 Report

Quoted By:

2am, classes tomorrow. Bedtime. See you guys later. Keep working on those mechanics.

SC Guy Mon 11 Apr 2011 06:08:42 No.14553359 Report

Quoted By: >>14553385

>>14553336

You need to bear in mind that Iceluses are glass cannons of an almost Dark Eldar variety. It takes 1 grunt with a krak missile to own it.

Now the Faltering Reality thing, I LIKE. We could make it even riskier by saying that if it fails on his leadership, the first thing the unit charges is THE CHARACTER. It'd make people think more about putting a tooled up choppy in the unit.

Wing Zero Mon 11 Apr 2011 06:09:42 No.14553366 Report

Quoted By:

>>14553337
good night. Try not to be too distracted thinking of the EN tomorrow.

Magi Mon 11 Apr 2011 06:09:42 No.14553370 Report

Quoted By: >>14553382

Wow, I guess i've been doing most of the drawing for this chapter Home Planet. I dont suppose theres anyone intrepid enough to have a go modeling them. I think green stuff, or repurposed beaky heads could deal with the masks.

SC Guy Mon 11 Apr 2011 06:12:42 No.14553382 Report

Quoted By: >>14553409

>>14553370

I COULD try modeling them...I've got a squad of guardsmen just sitting there from my fluffy Scout Regiment idea. For the lower half I could use...Hm...Empire Flagellent pieces? Then get a beakie head, add something on the back...hm...

Wing Zero Mon 11 Apr 2011 06:12:42 No.14553385 Report

Quoted By: >>14553396

>>14553359
Good, Good! (evil knuckle rub)

But in all seriousness, Icelus' might be glass cannons, but any canny player is gonna keep them in cover or out of sight. (I see them being a little bigger than termies) 100 points, my final offer!

SC Guy Mon 11 Apr 2011 06:13:42 No.14553396 Report

Quoted By:

>>14553385

Right, we'll play your game. 100pts, we'll see how that works out for us. I could be able to playtest today, if I do I'll give my own feedback.

Magi Mon 11 Apr 2011 06:15:42 No.14553409 Report

Quoted By:

>>14553382
Sounds very promising, I look foward to seeing the sucesses

Starshadow Mon 11 Apr 2011 06:17:42 No.14553419 Report

Quoted By: >>14553446

Come to think of it...

> Nightmares pride themselves in riddles and sleigh of hand. The Sleepless take this to an extreme and also craft and carve objects with tiny details.
> Sleigh of Hand
> Card and Dice games
> Craft minute objects
> Carving
> Painting
> Miniatures

Ergo
> Nightmares are gamers!
(oneofus.jpg)

Has the codex page been updated yet? I'll look over it again.

SC Guy Mon 11 Apr 2011 06:19:42 No.14553446 Report

Quoted By: >>14553474

>>14553419

Haha!

I just updated the page. Took away the 1-3 per slot rule, replaced Infiltrate with Scout in the NImble rule, added an Autocannon for 15pts. Think Autocannons should break Nimble?

Starshadow Mon 11 Apr 2011 06:22:42 No.14553472 Report

Quoted By: >>14553488

Here is the Sleepless symbol drawn using white sand on both Primus and Secundus armour.

It feels more iconic to me. The original chapter symbol has great contrast with the purple and dark purple sand against yellow Primus armour. On Secundus armour it has barely any contrast at all. Which is entirely the point.

With the white sand the new symbol manages to stand out on both.

SC Guy Mon 11 Apr 2011 06:23:42 No.14553474 Report

Quoted By:

>>14553446

Yes, they should. Also, they're 100pts now. Let's run with that.

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 06:23:42 No.14553477 Report

Quoted By: >>14553493 >>14553517 >>14553616

Couple ideas.
1: Is it too self-important of us to give the major players in the chapter creation the name rights for a company?
2: Perhaps one dawn and one dusk company have unusual synergy, and typically deploy on joint operations to work in tandem.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace sleepless 4.png, 46KiB, 709x381

Starshadow Mon 11 Apr 2011 06:24:42 No.14553488 Report

Quoted By: >>14553508

>>14553472
Damn you captcha!

>icaptip await
Don't you mock me!

Wing Zero Mon 11 Apr 2011 06:25:42 No.14553493 Report

Quoted By: >>14553518

>>14553477
This fits my play style rather well. I tend to take a little of each in an army.

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 06:26:42 No.14553508 Report

Quoted By:

>>14553488
I personally still like just the infinity being white. It's more significant if that's the only real change.

SC Guy Mon 11 Apr 2011 06:28:42 No.14553517 Report

Quoted By: >>14553586

>>14553477

Well if it's a good name, why not? I, for one, don't need any kind of self-insert. But that's because I made Demeter, Galen, Hector, Nyseos, Dymas, Tibalt and Eidelan on the spot, the fact that they've been accepted pretty much unaltered will always be enough for me..

And yeah, the synergy idea would work.

Wing Zero Mon 11 Apr 2011 06:28:42 No.14553518 Report

Quoted By:

>>14553493
Forgot half of what I wanted to write.

I feel 5th and 9th comp might have that relationship. No real reason, just they're the last in their respective sections.

Starshadow Mon 11 Apr 2011 06:31:42 No.14553548 Report

Quoted By:

>1: Is it too self-important of us to give the major players in the chapter creation the name rights for a company?
Dunno. Is it? I support using 7th Company "The Starshadows" just because it is entirely fluffy. Its a random pair of words I dropped in the name field that made sense in retrospect. So to me its not like I'm branding one of the companies with my gamer tag or anything.

>2: Perhaps one dawn and one dusk company have unusual synergy, and typically deploy on joint operations to work in tandem.
Yes we should allow for simultaneous deployment. We can go ahead and name the first 3 companies in each battlegroup. But the 5th and 9th companies should be left up to the imagination. In the fluff we can state that these companies are seen as the most "vanilla" in the chapter and are often deployed in joint operations.

Wing Zero Mon 11 Apr 2011 06:35:42 No.14553586 Report

Quoted By: >>14553612

>>14553517
Just went over the tabletop rules. Were we gonna drop furious charge? Also, what would be a good price for the assault cannon? And if we use relic blades, hows 15 points? (like a fist)

SC Guy Mon 11 Apr 2011 06:37:42 No.14553612 Report

Quoted By: >>14553628

>>14553586

In my view, Furious Charge is still a viable rule which doesn't need immediate addressing lest it break the Icelus. Let's keep it on the thing for another game or two.

Wing Zero Mon 11 Apr 2011 06:37:42 No.14553616 Report

Quoted By: >>14553668

>>14553477
My tag as always been Wing Zero, ever since I saw Endless Waltz. I don't care what we do with it, If we even find a place to put it.

Wing Zero Mon 11 Apr 2011 06:39:42 No.14553628 Report

Quoted By: >>14553650

>>14553612
Cool. But what about my suggestions for the hellfire? I'm not being pushy, but I feel it is both fluffy and really showcases the fact that it is 'ranged support'.

SC Guy Mon 11 Apr 2011 06:42:42 No.14553650 Report

Quoted By:

>>14553628

Utterly agreed with that. I'll play about with that. Front armour 13 is just a throwaway from its first incarnation, where it was a 1-dread devestator squad. Edited.

Starshadow Mon 11 Apr 2011 06:43:42 No.14553657 Report

Quoted By: >>14553676 >>14553681 >>14553722

>I personally still like just the infinity being white. It's more significant if that's the only real change.
But the symbolism of the sand is just too great to pass up. Time has run out. Time has stopped. And its a different KIND of time because the life of a Sleepless is almost beyond our imagination.

Looking at the chart we currently have the following:
2nd Company: Solar Prominence. Specializes in drop pod assaults.
3rd Company: Undefined. (lightning raid perhaps? speeders/bikes + deep striking assault marines)
4th Company: Seekers of the Flame. Specializes in armoured assault (and siege?).

6th Company: Undefined
7th Company: Starshadows. Specializes in night operations conducted in complete darkness.
8th Company: Undefined

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 06:44:42 No.14553668 Report

Quoted By: >>14553722

>>14553616
I suggest you instead take a detachment of ace point fighters in the naval fleet. The 0th Wing, so-named for their existence as a Raven Guard fighter wing before being gifted to their new offshoot.

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 06:45:42 No.14553676 Report

Quoted By:

>>14553657
Whoops, misspoke. I like the sand having run out too, just not that it's turned white.

SC Guy Mon 11 Apr 2011 06:46:42 No.14553681 Report

Quoted By: >>14553722

>>14553657

Well the bikes idea was what I had in mind for the 4th company, since it makes sense for even their footsoldiers to go to battle mounted.

In light of the bike thing, I'll add the rule where if a Captain is taken on a bike, bike squads can be troops.

Wing Zero Mon 11 Apr 2011 06:51:42 No.14553722 Report

Quoted By: >>14553755

>>14553657
>>14553681
Good. Thats one of the things Ward dun goofed for the blood angels codex. It makes for a completely different feel for your army.

>>14553668
maybe it could be a strike cruisers name, based off the fellows from your idea? It's not really up to me.

Starshadow Mon 11 Apr 2011 06:51:42 No.14553724 Report

Quoted By: >>14553815 >>14553897

When you think about it, orbital bombardment followed by mass drop pod assault is pretty much the definition of Shock and Awe. So this makes perfect sense for the 2nd Company.

But what about 6th company? What is the epitome of "See but don't BE seen"? I think they should be infiltration specialists. This is different from night operations in general. At night the enemy can't see you even if he looks right at you. But infiltration during the day is a matter of camouflage and hiding in plain sight. Something 6th company could be masters of.

That leaves 8th company. I'm thinking of them as master assassins and ambush specialists. Its kind of like Shock and Awe, but without the Awe. Get in to position without being seen and then BOOM. Kick them in the nuts and fade away before they know what hit em.

Basically OMGWTF followed by "what hit us?" (assuming anyone is left alive to even ask)

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 06:55:42 No.14553755 Report

Quoted By:

>>14553722
Fair enough. The 0th wing is five strike cruisers known for their specialty and teamwork among each other, claiming their name from their existence in the Raven Guard before their attachment to the Nightmares. Their favored technique is Section and Stinger, sending out one as easy prey to lure the enemy in for obliteration by the remaining teammates.

...they likely don't try that on Tyranids, unless they've wiped out every splinter fleet they've faced utterly so they can't learn about the trick.

Starshadow Mon 11 Apr 2011 07:01:42 No.14553797 Report

Quoted By: >>14553897

>Whoops, misspoke. I like the sand having run out too, just not that it's turned white.
Hmm yeah on second though having the sand white takes away from the infinity symbol. It kind of blurs the distinct outline and makes it appear like something else.

>Well the bikes idea was what I had in mind for the 4th company, since it makes sense for even their footsoldiers to go to battle mounted.
Hmm yeah that makes sense. So we flip them around. 3rd Company is Armoured Assault and Siege. 4th company are the "raiders" with fast attack stuff.

This is not to say these are crippling overspecializations. Even 3rd company will have some scouts in it. And Secundus can and does conduct drop pod assaults when the need arises.

>...they likely don't try that on Tyranids, unless they've wiped out every splinter fleet they've faced utterly so they can't learn about the trick.
Problem is they always communicate with the hive unless the number of critters falls below critical mass.

However this tactic would be perfect for those small isolated splinters who would be more instinctive and bestial instead of cunning.

Wing Zero Mon 11 Apr 2011 07:04:42 No.14553815 Report

Quoted By:

>>14553724
I'm getting a feel like Assassins Creed: Brotherhood meets TACTICAL GENIUS. Basically they really like to employ scouts more then the rest of the chapter, and every action (both friend and foe) is pre planned for and utilized. Every turn is a new trap, every squad a diversion for another. This captain is basically playing chess in the dark, but is damn good at it.

SC Guy Mon 11 Apr 2011 07:15:42 No.14553897 Report

Quoted By: >>14554006 >>14554055

>>14553797
>>14553724

I quite like those ideas, yeah.

Possible ideas for the Secundus company names.

6th - The Spectres
8th - The Beheaders

And as for a name for the 2 coexisting companies...I'm thinking...

9th Company - The Cloak
5th Company - The Dagger

Wing Zero Mon 11 Apr 2011 07:24:42 No.14553979 Report

Quoted By:

I'm going to bed. I'll be back tomorrow before work.

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 07:27:42 No.14553990 Report

Quoted By: >>14554096 >>14554122 >>14554134

>>14553232
>>14553005
>>14552984
>>14552806

Woah woah woah. They may indeed be underpriced but before you go saying that they're broken have you tried shooting a krak missile at them? What about a meltagun? Does your opponent have any power fists? These things can be instantly killed by ANY strength 8 hit unlike lone wolves.

Lone Wolves in terminator armour with a chainfist and a storm shield are far more durable, don't take a kill point and are 85 points too.

As to weapon loadouts, the whole idea is that they're lightweirght that's why they get terminator weapon options not dreadnought ones.

>remove thunder hammer option
respectfully, fuck your shit. Why are you doing this? Because you don't like it? The Icelus I modelled a month or so ago (not that it was very good since it was made out of a tau suit and spare parts and looks very little like an actual pre-heresy style dread but I still want to use it) has a thunder hammer.

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 07:28:42 No.14554006 Report

Quoted By:

>>14553897
The 5th and 9th, respectively, have battlecries, as well.
"Darkest Before Dawn" for the 9th, and "Dawn Breaks" for the 5th. Straightforward, and in the Dawn's case, brutally so.

Starshadow Mon 11 Apr 2011 07:35:42 No.14554055 Report

Quoted By: >>14554117

>>14553897
Here is my revised take on them.

6th Company: Specters of the Howling Dark (alternate: The Unseen)
>"The darkness is our home, and WE are its claws"
7th Company: Starshadows
>"Under cloak of night, by sword and starlight"
8th Company: Lightning Executioners
>"Be like the distant thunder. Often heard, never seen".

I really like the idea of Cloak and Dagger companies, but we should make it a bit more subtle. Give me a moment to think.

Starshadow Mon 11 Apr 2011 07:45:42 No.14554096 Report

Quoted By:

>>14553990
For the record I agree with him. Thunder hammers make perfect sense and fill a niche. I mean its a terminator weapon, and you still allowed storm shields so why not?

Keep in mind these are NOT terminator standard hammers and shields. These are mastercrafted specifically for use by the Icelus dreads. I imagine the powerfists, hammers and shields are made of the same black metal as the lightning claws.

Its actually quite scary when you think about it. Icelus dreads and Secundus marines only activate their power weapons moments before striking. But thunder hammers take this a step further, they don't have a constant disruption field like fists or swords. They build up a charge and then release it ALL AT ONCE on impact.

Right now I'm imagining some ork convoy rolling through the jungle... The driver and passengers of a battlewagon are bored and starting to nod off.

> Are we there yet?
> Shut up ye gitz!"
>*bzzzzzt* *crackle*
>"Oy what was that?"

*CRACKATHOOOM*

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 07:48:42 No.14554117 Report

Quoted By: >>14554128

>>14554055
Sturm und Drang? Storm and Stress.

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 07:49:42 No.14554122 Report

Quoted By: >>14554134

>>14553990
Okay so I read the revised wiki and I'm liking it. 100 points seems like a good place to start the playtesting.

I just happened to write like 90% of the wiki on the icelus pattern so I'm going all aspie nerd about tiny changes because it's all kinda personal to me. Don't mind me. You guys have been doing great work with the codex. Keep it up.

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 07:50:42 No.14554128 Report

Quoted By:

Penumbra means "the leading edge of shadow," I bet we can do something with that. >>14554117

SC Guy Mon 11 Apr 2011 07:50:42 No.14554134 Report

Quoted By: >>14554160

>>14553990
>>14554122

I agree with you. That's why 100pts is the MAXIMUM I'm prepared to go based on 1 game.

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 07:56:42 No.14554160 Report

Quoted By: >>14554181

>>14554134
Cool. Honestly though I'd still play them if they cost 500 points each.

Anyway you've pretty much been on a roll ever since you and I had our first conversation about switching it to a lictor-like monstrous creature profile and drafted some stats for it. I trust you and the others to make a damn cool codex and it's already shaping up that way. I'm also delighted at all the new (and revised) fluff. Just... I hope nobody comes along and rewrites the core concept while I'm asleep, y'know?

SC Guy Mon 11 Apr 2011 07:59:42 No.14554181 Report

Quoted By: >>14554196

>>14554160

Haha, no worries there. We're not Games Workshop, after all.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace iron-hands-pre-heresy-dreadnought1.jpg, 150KiB, 740x704

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 08:02:42 No.14554196 Report

Quoted By:

>>14554181
HA!

Starshadow Mon 11 Apr 2011 08:03:42 No.14554206 Report

Quoted By: >>14554219 >>14554243

You guys like the new Secundus company names? I'm really proud of the 7th company motto, but all of it is up for tweaking and debate. We already have two named Primus companies. The third is supposed to be armoured assault. So I was thinking something along the lines of...

3rd Company: His Radiant Fist
> Emperor
> Fist
> Angry God
:D

Also when I said we should be more subtle than just "Cloak and Dagger" I didn't mean to dump the concept. I just thought we could come up with paired names that imply cloak and dagger, but don't actually spell it out.

So for instance instead of "dagger company" it could be 9th Company: The Hundred Blades

SC Guy Mon 11 Apr 2011 08:05:42 No.14554219 Report

Quoted By:

>>14554206

I DO like them. Nicely done.

And, in account of general boredom I've started an Icelus PDF guy. May post a pic of the general concept, but it'll be ugly (obviously), not least because I have no green stuff at the moment.

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 08:09:42 No.14554243 Report

Quoted By: >>14554249

>>14554206
The Veil and the Glinting Blade?
I still like "darkest before dawn" and "dawn breaks" for their mottos, either way.

SC Guy Mon 11 Apr 2011 08:10:42 No.14554249 Report

Quoted By:

>>14554243

Those can be Battlegroup mottos.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace HPIM0240.jpg, 320KiB, 1557x1164

SC Guy Mon 11 Apr 2011 08:29:42 No.14554405 Report

Quoted By: >>14554545

There we are. Yes, it's uneven. Yes, this is my fault.

SC Guy Mon 11 Apr 2011 08:40:42 No.14554496 Report

Quoted By:

It's actually tempting to make an Icelus PDF force as a little aside to the Nightmares. I've got this fixation on using one of the Empire repeater handguns as a plasma pistol. Because hell, their dress is bizarre...

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 08:44:42 No.14554536 Report

Quoted By:

Oh holy Jesus, I just had the most terrifying thought ever.
Sleepless experience maddening upswings in their perception and acuity. They can see very little detail in anything, to the point of pain.

Psykers can see into the warp.

I now officially pity the fuck out of any EN Librarian going Sleepless...

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace 1268520810381.gif, 73KiB, 525x740

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 08:45:42 No.14554545 Report

Quoted By: >>14554575

>>14554405

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 08:46:42 No.14554554 Report

Quoted By: >>14554575 >>14554594

>>14545119
Alternate idea - have the ceramite playting removed by the promoted scout after a Nightmare dies, and have it displayed in a separate hall of the monastery. It's the techno bits of power armor that are valuable, ceramite is cheap, and that way we could preserve the knowledge and memory of the Sleepless.

Starshadow Mon 11 Apr 2011 08:48:42 No.14554559 Report

Quoted By:

Wow this thread is long! I think we hit autosage long ago.

Time for thread 13. The unlucky one, but given the number of 666 blessings from the Emperor we have received so far. I have no doubt that He will flip it over and bless us with the inspiration to create 31 more kinds of awesome.

I'm off to join the Sleepers. See you guys tomorrow.

SC Guy Mon 11 Apr 2011 08:50:42 No.14554575 Report

Quoted By:

>>14554545

Gaaaah, my plans, foiled! My phone's Insult Camera, insulted!

In all honesty, I need a better camera.

>>14554554

Madness' mosaics. *Shudder*

Anonymous Mon 11 Apr 2011 08:53:42 No.14554594 Report

Quoted By:

>>14554554
Maybe only a single piece--that's a lot of ceramite, after all. I also like the idea of the scout ritually cleansing the armor of each pattern by hand. There's reverence in unmaking.

...that also gives me the idea of them using those removed ceramite plates somewhere. Unique sets of armor forged in madness.

Starshadow Mon 11 Apr 2011 08:54:42 No.14554605 Report

Quoted By:

Popped back in just to say:

> 287 posts. NOT Autosaged.
(headsplode.jpg)

>Alternate idea - have the ceramite playting removed by the promoted scout after a Nightmare dies, and have it displayed in a separate hall of the monastery. It's the techno bits of power armor that are valuable, ceramite is cheap, and that way we could preserve the knowledge and memory of the Sleepless.
Suits of armour are priceless relics and there is no way they could afford to hang even single pieces of them on the wall.

HOWEVER! I have a really simple solution for this. Whenever a Sleepless dies. All of the OTHER Sleepless get together and carve a statue of him, accurate to the smallest detail. This statue is then placed in a special gallery in the halls of the Sleepless.

What makes this twice as awesome? This gallery itself was also carved by the Sleepless themselves. Think of something out of MC Escher filled with marinee statues.

fractals, FRACTALS EVERYWHERE!

Magi Mon 11 Apr 2011 08:56:42 No.14554617 Report

Quoted By: >>14554656

So i'm drawing an Icelus Dread now.

It is filled with silent and brutal fury

SC Guy Mon 11 Apr 2011 09:00:42 No.14554656 Report

Quoted By:

>>14554617

And now I need a change of pants. And a change of thread.

>>14554655

Jonboi Mon 11 Apr 2011 10:43:42 No.14555460 Report

Quoted By:

Just reading through this edition of brain-storming and had a few thoughts that may be of use with regards to vehicles/walkers/bikers going sleepless whilst using said vehicle.

So currently in the real world we have the new road train tech where a vehicle can be put into a convoy with other vehicles and respond to the others movements without any direct user input.

So how this relates to the fluff/TT, say your biker/dred/rhino crew has gone sleepless the AI/machine spirit would take over and on a roll of X would lock onto the nearest apoc/similar vehicle and attempt to follow and mirror its movements/actions

So say you have a sleepless bike that has locked onto another in the squad at the start of each turn you would have to roll to ensure you stay locked on. Weapons would become a scatter issue where the control bike would shoot at a target no problem and the sleepless bike would aim at the same target but then take a scatter roll to account for its a machine doing the aiming etc.

Fluff wise you could have a mission where say 3/4 of the force go sleepless and the remaining 1/4 still end up pulling off the mission by cunning use of the AI tracking a lead bike and attacking as it does.

It may just be me spit-balling but i thought it could be an either an interesting mechanic to add to the TT or just something for the fluff.

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Emperor's Nightmare(s) Thread 12