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Emperor's Nightmare #23

Starshadow Fri 01 Jul 04:20:34 2011 No.15439358 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By:

The discussion continues!

The tabletop codex is complete but needs playtesting. Our current focus is fluffing out the world of Icelus. The planet itself and its inhabitants and their way of life.

How this all began:
>http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/13780616/
Previous thread:
>http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/15357637/
Chapter wiki:
>http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Emperor%27s_Nightmare
Tabletop codex:
>http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Nightmare_Tabletop

Anonymous Fri 01 Jul 2011 04:27:34 No.15439409 Report

Quoted By:

>http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Icelus

That might be of use.

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Anonymous Fri 01 Jul 2011 04:28:34 No.15439416 Report

Quoted By: >>15439502

Trains!

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Anonymous Fri 01 Jul 2011 04:36:34 No.15439502 Report

Quoted By: >>15440804

>>15439416
With all the abandoned, buried or long forgotten tracks that crisscross Icelus' surface, it stands to reason that there would be myths and legends of ghost trains, ghost tracks, "treasure trains" full of esoteric and valuable cargo and everything in between.

A good campaign for the Dark Heresy setting would be mapping out and rediscovering a series of thousand year old tracks in the hopes of locating a near-mythical purple express-type train that never reached its destination. Upon finding the wreck the players discover its cargo holds to be empty and no traces of its now long dead passengers. Various clues either lead them to a redemptionist shantytown or perhaps an abandoned bunker once used by Flawed Ones. It seems that the passengers were taken prisoner and sold off as slaves to those who would neither recognize or care about their noble birth. Tracking down the cargo from there will be a more arduous task.

Anonymous Fri 01 Jul 2011 06:35:34 No.15440607 Report

Quoted By:

Speaking of Icelian culture, what's their music like?

Starshadow Fri 01 Jul 2011 06:44:34 No.15440683 Report

Quoted By:

Every colour of the rainbow. Icelus has a bewildering array of cultures.

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WE Fri 01 Jul 2011 06:45:34 No.15440686 Report

Quoted By: >>15484155

Before we go far from the Chapter and hit the Salt Flats... Shouldn't we start by stetting the Scholastica Psykana into a more clearer view?

If only to cover the basics.

Starshadow Fri 01 Jul 2011 06:58:34 No.15440767 Report

Quoted By:

If you want to do that we will have to backtrack for a second and discuss the inquisitorial conclave that happened thousands of years ago. It had far reaching effects, including the establishment of the psykana, the increased sisterhood presence and the continue existence of the Nightmare's as a chapter.

Anonymous Fri 01 Jul 2011 07:03:34 No.15440804 Report

Quoted By:

>>15439502

In one of the previous threads, I detailed an organization beholden to the Administratum, the Icelian Plotters' Combine, that deals with mapping and controlling the Icelian rail network as a whole. Conceivably, you could run an entire DH campaign where the party works for a senior Plotter official rather than an Inquisitor.

Starshadow Fri 01 Jul 2011 09:05:34 No.15441576 Report

Quoted By: >>15445147

Hmm this is gonna be slow going at first. Plus Canada day is tomorrow so a lot of us will be busy for the day.

We might as well start at the beginning. The first major event in the chapter's history is the discovery of dreamwalking. Marines had lucid dreams all the time, but it wasn't until librarians started having dreams that they discovered the "dreamlands" they were wandering were actually a form of the warp.

(I may be butchering the fluff here, we haven't talked about this for ages.)

Anyway, things soon escalated to marines fighting daemons in their sleep. The chapter decided to come clean to the Inquisition about all this and support full disclosure. Mainly because they had no idea of how to deal with the problem. A conclave was formed out of representatives from all 3 ordos as well as several high ranked navigators, primaris psykers and astropaths.

It was soon discovered that dreamwalkers had a calming effect on the local warp. Something the psykers and ordo hereticus were keen to exploit. The Ordo Xenos was fairly uninterested in the proceedings, as they quickly determined that there was no xeno influence over the chapter. The Ordo Malleus was worried by the appearance of daemons. But since there was no tangible evidence and no daemons actually manifested, they had little to do.

Starshadow Fri 01 Jul 2011 09:15:34 No.15441618 Report

Quoted By:

After the conclave it was decided to allow the Nightmare's to continue operating as a chapter, with a couple of restrictions.

1. The Inquisition would be allowed to keep closer tabs on the chapter. Since that day two marines, one from each battlegroup, have served in the Deathwatch as a standing position. When one marine retires or is killed, another marine is drafted to take his place. It was and is not uncommon for the chapter to have more than 2 marines in the Deathwatch, and their collective service record is long and glorious.

2. An outpost of the inquisition was established in Hive Primus. A small one, but very much official.

3. A Scholastica Psykana was built in Hive Tertius alongside the Astropathic Quire. Not only does it serve to screen psykers out of the native population, but it also trains psykers brought from elsewhere in the sector.

4. The Sororitas presence on Icelus was greatly expanded by an influx of sisters from many orders. As they were assembled by Inquisitorial decree they are not a discreet "Order". The sisterhood was tasked with bringing the population of the planet firmly into the Emperor's light and screen each and every person for signs of mutation.

Starshadow Fri 01 Jul 2011 09:30:34 No.15441679 Report

Quoted By:

Fast forward to present day.

The conclave took place so long ago that no one still alive save Randolphus and the chapters oldest dreadnoughts remember what it was about. All of the records were either destroyed or locked away in long forgotten (and well trapped) vaults. Few inquisitors have any idea that the conclave took place. Those that do have mixed reactions and what Ordo they are from colours their perceptions.

The changes made to Icelus thousands of years ago have lasted for so long that they are simply ingrained. No one remembers why things are the way they are, and few bother to ask questions.

The Nightmares have faithfully sent marines to join the Deathwatch for thousands of years. The ancient pact made is long forgotten. The fact that marines are still requested and sent could be described as tradition. As such Nightmares have seen the length and breadth of the galaxy and returned much knowledge to the chapter.

The Scholastica Psykana has benefited greatly from the protection of the Nightmares and their dreamwalkers. As the local warp is calm and defended, psykers may practice their skills under a blanket of safety. Records of possessions and other accidents are sparse in the extreme. A fact that astonishes the Inquisition who (by now) have no inkling of the cause. At all times around 300 psyker attendants serve in Betten Burgen and help to guide the dreams of sleeping marines.

A regular visitor to Icelus, though unnoticed by all, is an Ordo Hereticus black ship. It serves as a transport, bringing psyker candidates to the school and transporting trained psykers and astropaths to all corners of the Imperium.

Starshadow Fri 01 Jul 2011 09:44:34 No.15441755 Report

Quoted By: >>15441858

The Sisterhood on Icelus are collectively referred to as the Sisters of the Nightingale. Although they have a Canoness, they are not considered a discreet order. Instead the mission given to the sisters by the inquisition is handed down through the generations and obeyed without question.

The Nightingales are a hybrid group, composed of sisters with many different specialties. (not all are listed here)

- By far the most common are Sisters Hospitaller, tasked with maintaining the health of nomad and hiver alike. They often serve in the PDF and some leave Icelus altogether and accompany Icelian Guard Regiments.

- The Sisters Famulous watch over the nobles of Icelus as mentors and bodyguards.

- The Sisters Dialogous are tasked with keeping track of the bewildering number of dialects and languages on the planet.

- Rounding out the Nightingales are a force of Battle Sisters. They are mostly tasked with defending the convent and the giant rolling cathedral I keep forgetting the name of. They also help to run the Schola Projenium (orphanage basically) by training new sisters.

Starshadow Fri 01 Jul 2011 09:58:34 No.15441832 Report

Quoted By:

The Nightingales are universally beloved by the population. The only contact most inhabitants will have of the sisterhood is of a healer, come to comfort the sick. Or a teacher, guiding her students into the light of the Emperor.

It was decided very early on that it would benefit both the sisterhood and the chapter to have both of them appear as acting in concert. As such the Nightingales wear the noble colours of purple and gold and grow their hair long into elaborate braids. Both potent signs of authority on Icelus.

Where the marines are thought of as the Emperor's angels of death. The Sisterhood contrasts sharply as His angels of mercy.

However.

Like all things on Icelus, even the Sisterhood has a dark side. Above all their mission is to root out corruption wherever it can be found. And when it is discovered, it is purged without hesitation or mercy.

The healers of the sisterhood are known to journey to every corner of the world. And while they are rightly beloved for aiding the population during these travels. Their real goal is to look for signs of mutation among the inhabitants.

Long ago, during that unnamed conclave, the Inquisition decreed that no possible hint of corruption could enter the chapter through its aspirants. It is this task that sets the Sisters of the Nightingale on the front line.

Starshadow Fri 01 Jul 2011 10:00:34 No.15441851 Report

Quoted By:

>Astropathic Quire
wtf is a quire? whatever, I'm off to bed.

Anonymous Fri 01 Jul 2011 10:01:34 No.15441858 Report

Quoted By: >>15447053

>>15441755

>- The Sisters Dialogous are tasked with keeping track of the bewildering number of dialects and languages on the planet.

The Dialogous have another task, namely to uncover as much as possible of the history of the planet. To this end, they sponsor and monitor the activities of the College of Archaeologists located on Primus. They also meticulously catalog local legends and nomad folk tales.

Anonymous Fri 01 Jul 2011 10:30:34 No.15442026 Report

Quoted By: >>15454206

Icelus just got an Inquisitor. Check >>15441706

At 250 years of age, he's not old enough to have been in the Conclave, but his extensive archives housed in bases in Icelus' dense asteroid belt may have information pertaining to the event. He's from a noble family (maybe a rail barony) and has ties to the Astartes (most likely the Nightmares). Wanna help me expand on the fluff?

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Icelus Pattern Dreadn-wait

WE Fri 01 Jul 2011 16:34:34 No.15443928 Report

Quoted By: >>15444971 >>15447112

>>http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/CONTEMPTOR_PATTERN_DREADNOUGHT_BODY.html

It looks like GW and FW don't want us to shift focus from the Nightmares...

Still, It is too big for an Icelus Dread, just check >>15443097

Anonymous Fri 01 Jul 2011 19:09:34 No.15444971 Report

Quoted By:

>>15443928
Still this is a promising thing. I'll wait until they have all the arms unlocked before purchasing.

Cartography Servitor Fri 01 Jul 2011 19:32:34 No.15445147 Report

Quoted By: >>15445172 >>15447053

>>15441576
>Canada Day

How many of us are Canucks anyway? Torontonians?

Maybe a Deathwatch game in the future isn't so far fetched after all.

Anonymous Fri 01 Jul 2011 19:35:34 No.15445172 Report

Quoted By:

>>15445147

I may be Anon, but I am very Canadian. I am also a Torontonian, so there you have it.

Magi Fri 01 Jul 2011 19:45:34 No.15445263 Report

Quoted By: >>15447053

I played a Deathwatch campaign as an Emperor's Nightmare Techmarine. I gradually disolved into repetative loops of speech and meticulous repairing nearly undamaged pieces of equipment. I died, burning my last fate point attaching a melta bomb to the top of a Defiler. There was enough left of me for possible Dreadnought incarceration.

I wonder how your supposed to roleplay as an dreadnaught, let alone a stealthy Icelus one.

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WE Fri 01 Jul 2011 22:51:34 No.15446971 Report

Quoted By:

>>I'll wait until they have all the arms unlocked

Yeah. The one with two fists looks very promising.

Starshadow Fri 01 Jul 2011 23:01:34 No.15447053 Report

Quoted By:

>>15441858
Oh that is something I forgot. The archeologists college was originally founded by the inquisition to look for evidence of pre-imperium Icelus. The Sisters Dialogous are tasked with decoding any records or inscriptions found.

As well they also tabulate all of the ancestral legends held by the nomads, as some if not all have a grain of truth in them.

>>15445147
Vancouverite here.

>>15445263
Well if you were an Icelus. Just do whatever would make your enemies go "thefuckwasthis? thefuckwasthat?"

That reminds me of something. An Icelus maintains a cone of silence around itself. So while it wouldn't make any sound it also can't hear anything unless it extends a mechadendrite or quill outside of the field to listen.

Would the walker still be able to send radio signals normally?

Starshadow Fri 01 Jul 2011 23:07:34 No.15447112 Report

Quoted By: >>15448131

>>15443928
The Contemptor looks really weird to me. Its missing that squat potato shape it has in all of the artwork. Is it because they lengthened the legs?

Also I'm not sure why they made it so big. Maybe they thought it would be cool?

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WE Sat 02 Jul 2011 00:43:34 No.15448131 Report

Quoted By: >>15449673 >>15484155

>>15447112

It is still somewhat potato'-ish'. It's the long legs (!) that make it look different when compared to a Pre-Heresy era Dreadnought.

(!) Now I really want a comparison pic of a Contemptor next to a Wraithlord.

Starshadow Sat 02 Jul 2011 02:58:34 No.15449673 Report

Quoted By:

>>15448131
Thats a good question... I know I've heard 12ft quoted for the height of a dreadnought. That sounds about right. But Wraithlords are significantly taller.

Jareddm Sat 02 Jul 2011 03:23:34 No.15449876 Report

Quoted By: >>15450440

Unfortunately this is an extremely busy weekend for me. Fourth of july (ohio here) and some family stuff. Not gonna be able to post much.

Just wanted to say I think the contemptor is a great place to start for the icelus and if shortening the legs and adding mechadendrites is all we need, I'd call that a pretty easy conversion.

Will post much more later.

Starshadow Sat 02 Jul 2011 04:35:34 No.15450440 Report

Quoted By: >>15451059

>>15449876
If you want to make a large scale Icelus sure. The Contemptor is even bigger than the regular dreadnought. Is it even supposed to be the pre-heresy design we know from all the art? Or something else altogether? Its not very clear.

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WE Sat 02 Jul 2011 05:45:34 No.15451059 Report

Quoted By: >>15484155

It is what >>15450440 said. Even if you only took the main body and shortened everything else by cutting both fist arms and do some mix-and-match the legs, you will still end with a 'fat' Icelus pattern dreadnought look-a-like.

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WE Sat 02 Jul 2011 07:26:34 No.15451672 Report

Quoted By: >>15484155

res/tg/uardian

Starshadow Sat 02 Jul 2011 07:33:34 No.15451713 Report

Quoted By: >>15451755

So what part of the fluff hasn't been worked on at all?

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Anonymous Sat 02 Jul 2011 07:43:34 No.15451755 Report

Quoted By:

>>15451713
The Administratum is pretty lacking in fluff. As are the Arbites. We need way more nobles and hive officials, old-money families and details of the connections, rivalries and arranged marriages between them.

The various Cloud Kindgoms, Salt Flat Racers/Nomads, the Witiko and the specific redemptionist clans could all also use some persons of interest and additional fluffing out.

Starshadow Sat 02 Jul 2011 08:40:34 No.15452055 Report

Quoted By: >>15452157 >>15457126

We know a couple things so far.

Icelus was a typical imperial hive world before it became a chapter homeworld. It had all of the organizations you would expect. The mechanicus, the administratum, the ecclesiarchy etc. All of these organizations were left to continue along as they always had. As a result there is little to no friction between any of them and the chapter.

The Nightmares rule as a stewardship. They do not control planetary affairs more than they must to meet their own needs. Everything else is left to elected officials.

So lets start off easy. Who is the planetary governor? Currently we only have a name, Maximillian Escidia.

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Anonymous Sat 02 Jul 2011 09:05:34 No.15452157 Report

Quoted By: >>15457126 >>15457213

>>15452055
And, as I recall, a picture.

Getting back to that whole "luxurious beards as a sign of status due to cleaner air and a lack of filtration masks" thing.

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Anonymous Sat 02 Jul 2011 12:22:34 No.15452996 Report

Quoted By:

What of Icelian counterculture?

Youth. Underhive gangers. Virtual reality addicts. Smugglers. Train racers.

Jareddm Sat 02 Jul 2011 16:08:34 No.15454206 Report

Quoted By: >>15457126 >>15458297

>It was soon discovered that dreamwalkers had a calming effect on the local warp
I've never heard of this before.

>The Ordo Xenos was fairly uninterested
>no daemons actually manifested, they had little to do.
This is a far too simplistic approach to take when representing the the inquisition. The ordo xenos might have been interested in using dreamwalking as a weapon against other psychic races. And wasn't the whole issue that Nightmares who dreamwalk are prone to demonic possession, which might have even happened once or twice. That the inquisition was planning on exterminating the chapter if not for the intervention of the scholastica psykana and the dreamcatcher project.

>chapters oldest dreadnoughts
I found out, venerable is considered 1,000 years or more

>They also help to run the Schola Progenium.
This is usually done by the Echlesiarchy and not the sisters.

>>15442026
Sounds good.

>The archeologists college was originally founded by the inquisition
Couldn't we just have it as an independent organization? Having everything tie to the inquisition feels a little overbearing. Not to say the inquisition couldn't have come to the organization later and demanded they take up this mission for them. I just don't think it needs to be founded with that purpose in mind.

>So while it wouldn't make any sound it also can't hear anything
I don't think that's how stummers work.

>Maximillian Escidia
The planetary governor was an avid salt flats racer in his youth. A spot that he still feels should be reserved for the richest and most refined of Icelus. To this end, he has instigated rules to keep the nomads from participating in salt flat races as much as possible.

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RT bait

WE Sat 02 Jul 2011 17:29:34 No.15454735 Report

Quoted By: >>15484155

>>The archeologists college was originally founded by the inquisition
>Couldn't we just have it as an independent organization? Having everything tie to the inquisition feels a little overbearing. Not to say the inquisition couldn't have come to the organization later and demanded they take up this mission for them. I just don't think it needs to be founded with that purpose in mind.

Agreed. This archeotech thing is a good gateway for a Rogue Trader campaign. Sure, a Xeno Inquisitor can get into this stuff too, but this really sounds like a independent enterprise for the adventurous dude who doesn't mind a few dangers in his trade.

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Anonymous Sat 02 Jul 2011 22:34:34 No.15456726 Report

Quoted By:

train bump

Anonymous Sun 03 Jul 2011 02:52:34 No.15457126 Report

Quoted By:

>>15454206
>>15452157
>>15452055

Icelus Planetary Governor Maximillian Escidia
WS:27 / BS:31 / S:29 / T:39 / Ag:44 / Int:48 / Per:33 / WP:40 / Fel:49
>skills
Common Lore (Administratum +20, Arbites, Imperium, Icelus +20), Blather +20, Carouse, Charm +10, Command +10, Drive +10, Forbidden Lore (Icelus +10, Administratum +20, Emperor's Nightmare) Scholastic Lore (bureaucracy +10, heraldry +10), Secret Tongue (Administratum), Performer (piano)
>Talents
Master Orator, Paranoia, Enemy (rival nobles, redemptionist clans),
>Gear
Fine silks, digital laspistol, pict-skull and Luxurious facial hair.
In the garages of his various extravagant mansions Maximillian boasts over a thousand finely tuned cars. Each capable of speeds exceeding 300 miles per hour. An avid collector in general, Escidia owns many strange relics and esoteric pieces of art from across the sector as well as a large zoo of endangered species and non-sentient xenos.

Luxurious facial hair: Maximillian Escidia gains a +10 bonus to all fellowship rolls when interacting with common Icelian citizens. He gains a further +10 bonus if they are hive-born natives. This bonus does not apply if the citizen in question possesses a beard of equal (or greater) length and grooming.

Starshadow Sun 03 Jul 2011 05:13:34 No.15457213 Report

Quoted By:

Posting keeps going down at annoying times...

>>15452157
Yeah. Having a beard at all signifies that you don't need a mask. This can mean that you either don't do work in toxic environments. OR you have very sophisticated implants that are invisible. Both of them are indications of wealth and power. Soldiers are all clean-shaven, but they display status by wearing "The Lord Colour's" on their uniforms.

The length of the beard matters. But most of them are kept short in elaborate braids. The more outlandish the better!

Women do much the same thing by growing their hair long. Elaborate braids are common. Some noblewomen have hair so long that it needs servants or servitors to hold it off the ground.

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WE Sun 03 Jul 2011 05:56:34 No.15457501 Report

Quoted By: >>15484155

>>An avid collector in general, Escidia owns many strange relics and esoteric pieces of art from across the sector as well as a large zoo of endangered species and non-sentient xenos.

Can't.. keep... Vandis vibe... out of mind...

Starshadow Sun 03 Jul 2011 07:53:34 No.15458297 Report

Quoted By: >>15458406

>>15454206
>And wasn't the whole issue that Nightmares who dreamwalk are prone to demonic possession,
Yeah, whoever came up with the idea first had a MUCH better explanation than mine. I'm going to have to scan the early threads because I know we discussed it before but I can't remember some of the specifics.

>It was soon discovered that dreamwalkers had a calming effect on the local warp
>I've never heard of this before.
IIRC, most of the dreamwalking marines and librarians end up defending a large fortress that represents Betten Burgen and Icelus's "landscape" manifestation in the warp. They regularly patrol the ramparts and banish any daemons that they find. This has the effect of making psychic power usage much safer for anyone in the star system. There was a story written about this I think.

If you mean "calm the local warp" as in the ocean that starships float around in, then yeah. Different scale altogether.

>They also help to run the Schola Progenium.
>This is usually done by the Echlesiarchy and not the sisters.
But the Sisterhood IS part of the Ecclesiarchy. They are the part of the school that trains girls to become Sororitas of various stripes. The Schola covers all branches of imperial service, from the mechanicus to the IG stormtroopers.

About the archeologists, there is no reason we can't make them a legitimate institution. But I can't imagine the Inquisition leaving them alone. The history of Icelus is full of dangerous and powerful secrets, something the Inquisition and Mechanicus are keen to exploit.

Starshadow Sun 03 Jul 2011 08:13:34 No.15458406 Report

Quoted By:

>>15458297
cont-

We could say that the archeologists were founded as a front by the Inquisition. But eventually evolved into a powerful organization in its own right. One that works WITH the Inquisition and Mechanicus, but is not a part of either..

>I don't think that's how stummers work.
Is there a technical explanation for how stummers work? I can't find anything other than the fact that they generate silence. So far we have been working with the idea that they project a cone of silence that cancels out sound within it. Hence the Icelus doesn't make any sound and neither will you if you get too close. But "cancels all sound" would mean that the Icelus is deaf, unless it extends sensors outside the bubble. (another use for sensor quills)

>To this end, he has instigated rules to keep the nomads from participating in salt flat races as much as possible.
Of course, this totally fails at keeping them out completely, it just makes them jump through more hoops. Nomads can enter the "official" races when sponsored by someone with enough pull. And the official races are but a tiny fraction of the total.

I don't think its on the wiki yet. But there was a humorous story about a marine entering a race on an investigation. Instead of a typical racing vehicle, he was riding an attack bike. Complete with heavy bolter.

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Anonymous Sun 03 Jul 2011 10:31:34 No.15459029 Report

Quoted By: >>15459388

Hey, was playing around with the Inquisitor generator (http://www.darkreign40k.com/drjoomla/index.php/npcs/pcs/1326-instant-inquisitor-maker-for-any-rpg-s
ystem) and came up with an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor, which someone suggested I show you guys as he could be right up your alley?

>Name:
Pascal Eneko Xabi

>Ranks of note:
Inquisitor (Ordo Malleus), Viscount (23rd in line of succession to House Xabi)

>Age:
Believed to be in his early 300s

>Modus Operandi:
Noted reliance on psionic personnel, abhumans and non-standard genetic deviance (mutants and beastmen noted in his retinue).

Excessively stubborn, he will refuse to give ground once committed to an endeavour. Noted for his use of subterfuge and espionage in the persecution of malefic cults, he has shown willingness to blackmail, kidnap and spend lives where thought necessary. Morality is a known concept to him, but one he seems to ignore.

>Psionic Talent:
Epsilion grade. Pascal has displayed potent ability with telekinetic powers as well as a highly-developed sense of psi-divination.

>Known Contacts and Resources:
House Xabi have previously provided their dynastic resources for Pascal in the form of informants, transport (stellar and planet-bound) and funds. He is also known to have many contacts within the Adeptus Astra Telepathica and the League of Blackships, the majority of which are themselves psykers.

It is believed he maintains a librarium and research facility jointly run with the Adeptus Astra Telepathica, but that is as of yet unconfirmed. It is known however that he maintains a vessel, a herald-type ship comparable in size to a cobra class destroyer. This ship, the 'Inosaya', is known to possess advanced warp drives and plasma coils that allow for much decreased travel times in the void.

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Anonymous Sun 03 Jul 2011 10:32:34 No.15459036 Report

Quoted By: >>15459388

>Threat Rating:
High. Do not underestimate this man, he is well-connected and experienced.

>Notes:
Discovered by the Black Ships and taken from his family in his early teens, Pascal has turned into a formidable Throne Agent. He is known to have sponsored some four full Inquisitorships, including Inquisitrix Lera who seemingly has some history of a more intimate kind with him. The exact nature of this is unknown, but seems to cause anger and bitterness in the old man.

Pascal is known to exhibit a fascination with Imperial heraldry, and is in fact a senior member of the sector's College of Arms and Heraldic Devices.

His position as a senior Inquisitor and a member of an influential noble house have made him somewhat well-known in the region, on top of his previous exploits in the K'Thani Incident, the Exorcism of the hulk 'Venerable Executioner' and his timely intervention in the Alchibiades Expedition, which turned a full rout into a disciplined extraction.

+++ File end

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Anonymous Sun 03 Jul 2011 12:03:34 No.15459388 Report

Quoted By: >>15464292

>>15459029
>>15459036
Ogryns and psykers oh my!

Yes, this is excellent. He fits very well into the Icelus setting in many ways.

Might be worth us writing up stats for him and his retinue in Ascension for campaign use.

Heavy use of abhumans like ogryns is cool, although they'd have to be transported to Icelus for their training. Icelus doesn't have that many native ogryns and most are industrial workers or servitors anyway. Mutants in the retinue stand out since the sororitas keeps a close watch on Icelus for mutation but that can be dismissed as an eccentricity of the inquisitor. Also it would stand to reason that Pascal is the sector liaison for both the psykana and the black ships or at least one of the movers and shakers behind that exchange...

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Anonymous Sun 03 Jul 2011 17:03:34 No.15460942 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous Sun 03 Jul 2011 19:45:34 No.15462127 Report

Quoted By: >>15464292

Alright. Game plan, people. What shall we work on next?

Jareddm Sun 03 Jul 2011 22:20:34 No.15463362 Report

Quoted By:

Sorry, just been a really busy weekend.

I'd say the direction to go would be to start on the various rail barons and guilds. I know there was a huge list of them, each with a little 2 to 3 line blurb about them. Let's work on expanding those, determining their spheres of influence and their relationships with one another.

Also, our resident cartographer requested any changes people would like to see to the map. Now would be a great time to voice them.

Anonymous Sun 03 Jul 2011 23:12:34 No.15463859 Report

Quoted By:

Rail Barons and Guilds yes, but really any people of influence in general. Leaders and important figures of all the miscellaneous cultures of Icelus.

Starshadow Mon 04 Jul 2011 00:04:34 No.15464292 Report

Quoted By: >>15464857 >>15465536

>>15459388
After 3000 odd years of purging there are little to no mutants on Icelus. Abhumans are always from off-planet and rarely get permission to move beyond the starport at Hive Secundus.

An Inquisitor can of course, override any restrictions.

>>15462127
There was another Inquisitor we came up with before. He was a crazy bird enthusiast kind of guy who maintained a vast aviary in Hive Quintus. As a member of the Ordo Xenos he dedicated his time to studying the birds of Icelus. Trying to figure out while almost every critter on the planet has some form of bird like feature.

Sounds like a fun guy to go on expeditions with.

Jareddm Mon 04 Jul 2011 01:09:34 No.15464857 Report

Quoted By: >>15466110 >>15471796

>>15464292
I can imagine him having as a pet, one of those hideously scary, four-legged things that tricks people into following its lights at night.

Also, I can see him having crazy theories that the fauna of Icelus are all actually the lesser forms of some strange bird-like xenos that exists in the Veiled Region.

Anonymous Mon 04 Jul 2011 02:19:34 No.15465536 Report

Quoted By:

>>15464292
Abhumans aren't really the same as mutants though. They've been stable for thousands of years. Just as looked down on in some places sure, but usually considered slightly above mere mutants.

Icelus is a manufacturing world. By virtue of what they are they would have a small population of ogryns "bred in captivity" so to speak. These would be laborers by indoctrination or by servitor lobotomy and would only be found in three or four places on the planet. Anyway other than that tiny detail I agree. Abhumans are /pretty much/ all imported from off world.

Anonymous Mon 04 Jul 2011 03:07:34 No.15466110 Report

Quoted By: >>15466874

>>15464857

Nightlighters was the accepted term for those, correct? I can't remember how much dissent there was.

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Anonymous Mon 04 Jul 2011 04:35:34 No.15466844 Report

Quoted By:

Jareddm Mon 04 Jul 2011 04:38:34 No.15466874 Report

Quoted By:

>>15466110
I think so. Personally, it's not a great name but it'll do for now.

Starshadow Mon 04 Jul 2011 07:09:34 No.15468460 Report

Quoted By:

Gotta start putting this stuff on the wiki. HUGE task though.

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Anonymous Mon 04 Jul 2011 08:10:34 No.15469021 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous Mon 04 Jul 2011 08:31:34 No.15469187 Report

Quoted By: >>15469312

So I've been painting my littler niggers purple and gold for some time now. I hope noone asks me about this!

Though I like the whole concept, really neat. Does the planet have moons? It should have two moons. Named after notable figures.

Anonymous Mon 04 Jul 2011 08:49:34 No.15469312 Report

Quoted By:

>>15469187
Icelus has no moons but one moon sized archeotech spaceport orbits above called the Star of Dreams.

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Anonymous Mon 04 Jul 2011 10:13:34 No.15469851 Report

Quoted By:

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Anonymous Mon 04 Jul 2011 15:40:28 No.15471734 Report

Quoted By:

bump

Jareddm Mon 04 Jul 2011 15:49:28 No.15471793 Report

Quoted By:

Can anyone find the write-ups we had for the railroad organizations? I feel like I've scoured the whole archive but can't find them. I know there were at least a half dozen of them.

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Magi Mon 04 Jul 2011 15:49:28 No.15471796 Report

Quoted By: >>15478318

>>15464857
Old but its up there, might peak the ideas.

Anonymous Mon 04 Jul 2011 16:40:28 No.15472156 Report

Quoted By: >>15473463

Aldous Company
Credo: "No delays. No compromise. No mistakes."
Founded by Baron Issachar Aldous and developed by his 3 children, Aldous Company has built a reputation as a solid, reliable Guild that serves midhive and upperhive with an enviable efficiency. Aldous trains are the most punctual in the network, a feat achieved by cogitator-aided trains and hefty bribes to the Plotters in equal measure. Heavy-handed business practices and a competitive edge has given Aldous a near-monopoly on traffic with Quartus hive, something that the other Guilds continually petition the governor about.
Rumors: The youngest brother of the Aldous siblings has taken a sudden intrest in the Secundus lower hive levels of late, sponsoring several expeditions to the hive base.

Balsus Shipping
Credo: "Next stop, tomorrow!"
A guild with close ties to the Mechanicus, Balsus trains boast masterwork engines and servitor-operated turrets. This company specializes in cargo shipping, and Purple Ticket passengers generally shun Balsus trains because of the no-frills interiors and service. Still, this Guild is the one most admired by the Priesthood of Mars for the exemplary way it tends to its machines.
Rumor: A persistent rumor is that the Balsus Guild turns any stowaways they find into servitors. This rumor is false, planted by the Guild itself to mask the actual source of their unending army of lobotomized cyborgs...

Anonymous Mon 04 Jul 2011 16:42:28 No.15472170 Report

Quoted By: >>15473463

Jaharra Lines
Credo: "Tried. Tested. Victorious."
An old Guild, Jaharra Lines was the winner in the vicious Waystation Wars of M31 and has since cemented its influence on the western parts of Icelus. Jaharra's intrests lie in controlling key chokepoints of the rail infrastructure, such as major crossings and forks. The Guild operates tired, worn-down trains that the common folk can ride for cheap, as well as lavish, extravagant rail yachts for the purple-ticketed crowd.
Rumor: The Matriarch Belesa Jaharra is growing tired of her rejuvenant-extended life, and is preparing to hand her empire over to one of her most trusted concubines... but which one?

Lindacr Travels
Credo: "Movement is the life of Man"
The brain child of the eccentric Baron Lindacr, this Guild specializes in luxury train services for the hiver elite. Nobles wishing to survey their estates or travel for leisure use the small, sleek Lindacr trains to the fullest. The most popular departures are booked up several years in advance, and in some cases tickets have been the subject of duels to the death. Lindacr also maintains close ties with land-train caravan lords, something that earns him a great deal of scorn from rival Guildmasters, but ensures him excellent guides for the annual hunting trips that hive nobles make into the Icelus wilds.
Rumor: The departure schedule of Lindacr trains has become increasingly erratic. Unbeknownst to all, if one were to plot the movement of all trains from this Guild, one would see a pattern, almost like a hieroglyphic language being inscribed on the surface of Icelus...

Anonymous Mon 04 Jul 2011 16:50:28 No.15472239 Report

Quoted By:

How about Quarter's Folly?

Named after the long dead rail baron family, the Quarters. They owned a rail connecting Hive Tertius to Quartus. However, part of the track ran over a rather ancient and toxic dumping ground. The highly corrosive chemicals within the ground chewed away at the rails for decades until finally, the rail snapped, dropping the entire line into the polluted mire, taking a pair of massive freight train with it. The financial damage done to the Quarters ended crippled their position among the Rail Baron elite.

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Anonymous Mon 04 Jul 2011 17:00:28 No.15472314 Report

Quoted By: >>15472761

Is there allot of background on the IG on Icelus?

If so, could you show me the exact page?

Thanx...

Jareddm Mon 04 Jul 2011 17:58:28 No.15472761 Report

Quoted By: >>15476632

>>15472314
There is no imperial guard presence on Icelus. Like almost all chapter homeworlds, they maintain their own defenses, some without even a PDF. Icelus however has an excellent and highly trained PDF known for their outlandish uniforms. Pictures of which can be seen on the Icelus wiki. They were integral in the defense of Icelus during the Flawed Ones Insurrection, and only through favors from high-standing officers in the imperial guard, have a very few number of Icelus regiments been sent off-world to serve with the guard.

Jareddm Mon 04 Jul 2011 19:17:12 No.15473463 Report

Quoted By:

>>15472156
>>15472170
Fantastic. Thank you.

Now then, a few ideas I had.
One the map, the salt flat region directly below Primus would be covered in crisscrossing rail lines, seeing as how it's the most central area between the hives.
Balsus Shipping sounds like the one most likely to have trouble with raiders, seeing as how they're primarily a cargo-shipping guild.
Baron Lindacr might be an old friend of the planetary governor, the two meeting through a shared acquaintance among the land train operators.
Long ago, Jaharra Lines was prepared with a deal for House Quarter. A deal that would merge the two into Jaharran Quarter. The deal included, among other things, an arranged marriage between the eldest son of House Quarter and the pre-rejuvanent treatment Belesa Jaharra. Unfortunately, the incident at Quarter's Folly occurred and Jaharra Lines felt it was no longer in their best interest to go through with the merger and the marriage was canceled. The Quarters accused Jaharra Lines of inciting the Quarter's Folly disaster as House Quarter's other rivals took advantage of their weakened state to stamp the Quarters out of the industry, an accusation Jaharra Lines has denied to this day.

Also, I think I mentioned this before but the Waystation Wars should probably be later. Maybe M36. Only because anything pre-Nightmares on Icelus is already ancient history. Much older than that would simply be unknown.

Jareddm Tue 05 Jul 2011 00:30:57 No.15475996 Report

Quoted By:

bump

Anonymous Tue 05 Jul 2011 00:35:00 No.15476029 Report

Quoted By: >>15476036 >>15476425

Varinez - Magroth United Lines
Credo: "Emperor's Blessings, Terra's Steel"
A Guild formed from the merger of two smaller baronies, V-M boasts the best security of all Guilds in the business. Because of Varys Magroth's connections within the Munitorum, V-M militia guards are hand-picked from the PDF, and Esma Varines' contacts within the Mechanicus keep the Guild's autogun turrets well-oiled and their murder-servitors impeccably programmed. In fact, the flagship train of V-M, the Elhunon, has never once suffered a raider attack, robbery or hijacking, something no train of any other Guild has managed. The Elhunon's guns keep nomads at bay, while strict and draconian security measures ensure infiltration attempts are foiled long before departure, making it the train of choice for paranoid nobles and couriers with precious cargo.
Rumor: While the two Guild heads are deeply in love, their children and heirs hate each other. Minor skirmishes have already erupted between gangs loyal to each of the five siblings, and it's only a matter of time before a full Rail War erupts on V-M soil...

Concordat of Daloush
Credo: "His will be done in every endeavour"
One of the largest power players in Icelus, Daloush holds a comparatively small area of the rail network, but makes up for it by diversifying into the much-despised land train and caravan market. Daloush is not run in the traditional Rail Guild way, with a baron leading the organization. Rather, all decisions are made by a gathering of stakeholders, which include a few nomad wheel-lords as well as hiveborn nobles. Daloush also owns and operates a number of mines on Icelus and within the asteroid belts, making it one of the most important supplier of precious minerals to the manufactorums.
Rumor: Returnees from a Daloush expedition into the deep uncharted regions of Icelus' remote asteroid belt refuse to go back and continue prospecting for obscure reasons.

Anonymous Tue 05 Jul 2011 00:36:00 No.15476036 Report

Quoted By: >>15476425

>>15476029

Nakadah Wayfarer's Service
Credo: "Tried and True"
Mikober Nakadah took the trial of the Gillyflower at the age of 11. While he managed to survive several skirmishes with nomads, raiders and fellow competitors, he failed to preserve a flower. Impressed by his acumen and skill, the Nightmares offered him life as a chapter serf. Nakadah turned them down, determined to find a place in life where he could rise to the very top. Recruited into the failing Rail Guild of Thraxos Stam, Nakadah worked his way up from a lowly coal-shoveler to assistant guildmaster and right hand of the Baron. After Baron Stam's untimely death, Nakadah swiftly took over the Guild and transformed it from a corrupt, disorderly mess into a serious contender to the dominance of the major Icelian guilds. Nakadah's keen business sense led him to achieve a complete monopoly on the minor commuter lines that ferry menial workers and midhive laborers from Quintus' sattelite settlements and underground caverns into the vast agri-factoriums of the central hive dome. Nakadah trains are old and worn out, but have a reputation for timely departure and safe arrivals. Honouring the Baron's origins, travel on Nakadah trains is free of charge for any child undertaking the Trial of the Nightmares.
Rumor: Secret Nakadah cargo trains ship large quantities of organic compounds and plant matter from Quintus to Primus. It is rumored that these trains ferry unknown drugs for use by the Emperor's Nightmare chapter and several high-ranking Inquisitors...

Jareddm Tue 05 Jul 2011 01:37:06 No.15476425 Report

Quoted By:

>>15476029
>>15476036
Very nice. I think between these 7 we've basically covered all of Icelus that's going to have rail access. Let's work on their interactions and more on the specific regions each controls.

Starshadow Tue 05 Jul 2011 02:07:06 No.15476632 Report

Quoted By:

>>15472761
The full story was that Icelus maintained its own PDF since before the Nightmares took over the reigns. Then about 100 years ago a waking dead dreadnought escaped into Hive Primus and rampaged through the hive.

Feeling a bit guilty the Nightmares decided to take a more direct hand in the training of the PDF. As a result the skill level of the common trooper greatly increased and attracted the attention of the IG.

They put some pressure on the Nightmares to export some of the PDF as guard regiments. The Nightmares eventually allowed this, even though as an Adeptus home world Icelus technically pays no taxes to the Imperium. To date there are 30 Icelian regiments out and about. (though the 25th was purged) A very small number considering that some hive worlds export 100 million men PER YEAR.

Icelian Guard are highly skilled. They do not fight as "line" regiments and instead form a mobile strike force adept at hitting the enemy in vulnerable areas. They do not favour static artillery and rely on mobile armour and air support.

Icelus is somewhat famous for its stormtroopers who also receive training from the marines. Only to a might higher degree than the PDF.

Jareddm Tue 05 Jul 2011 04:09:54 No.15477577 Report

Quoted By:

bump for bed

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WE Tue 05 Jul 2011 05:58:58 No.15478318 Report

Quoted By: >>15478523 >>15478819 >>15484155

>>15471796

That's rether weird even for an =I= dude. Strikes me more of a bodyguard than the actual Inquisitor.

Anonymous Tue 05 Jul 2011 06:27:11 No.15478523 Report

Quoted By: >>15478819

>>15478318
I dunno, that could work pretty well in my opinion. 'Course I don't think he'd go around wearing that helmet all the time...it'd be for open battle or somesuch occasion.

Anonymous Tue 05 Jul 2011 07:11:07 No.15478819 Report

Quoted By: >>15479431

>>15478318
Too thin and frail for bodyguard work. And then what's with the owl creature? He also has a real scribe-ish look about him with all the parchment, only keeping the thunder hammer around as a symbol of both his office and the Emperor's might.

>>15478523
It's pointing down at a weird angle so you can't really tell but I believe that's a standard Icelian beak gas mask rather than an ornamental helmet.

Pascal strikes me as a warrior/military commander type betrayed by his aging body, which fits really well in my opinion. Augmentics and Pascal's respectable telekinetic abilities exerted on his own body keep him fighting fit despite this, but age is always a losing battle.

Starshadow Tue 05 Jul 2011 08:56:25 No.15479431 Report

Quoted By:

>>15478819
Rejuvenation science is pretty advanced for the Imperium. Its expensive, but inquisitors get first pick of everything. And the more powerful/complex an augmetic gets, the less outwardly visible it is.

Some of the most advanced stuff like digital laser rings have circuitry built at the atomic level and hence can be miniaturized to fit in tiny objects.

So them "wizened old men" can still be dangerous.

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Anonymous Tue 05 Jul 2011 12:16:04 No.15480199 Report

Quoted By: >>15480894

Yeah the old ones are the tough ones, even if their walking is supported by prosthetics. It's one of the Laws of 40k that the older something is the more badass it is. Always.

I do rather like the idea of a relatively frail and past-his-prime-despite-miracle-cures Inquisitor wielding a thunderhammer like it was featherlight and barely holding onto it with the tips of his fingers as he flings it around his body telekinetically at the speed of thought.

Rejuvenation and prosthetics keep Pascal spry despite his three centuries, telekinetically augmented hammerblows keep him terribly lethal in combat and a penchant for scrying the future seldom leaves him ill-prepared.

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WE Tue 05 Jul 2011 14:29:25 No.15480874 Report

Quoted By: >>15484155

>>Rejuvenation and prosthetics keep Pascal spry despite his three centuries, telekinetically augmented hammerblows keep him terribly lethal in combat and a penchant for scrying the future seldom leaves him ill-prepared.

This, thanks for clearing that one up.

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Anonymous Tue 05 Jul 2011 14:33:25 No.15480894 Report

Quoted By: >>15483092

>>15480199
Even the ones stuck in life support thrones are badass.

Jareddm Tue 05 Jul 2011 18:52:17 No.15483092 Report

Quoted By: >>15484523

>>15480894
Pretty sure that's actually a cardinal, not an inquisitor. Still pretty awesome.

So would this inquisitor Pascal know about the ancient inquisitorial asteroid vault that orbits Icelus?

Being the connection between the psykana and the black ships, I assumed he'd be based in hive tertius.

And if he's in tertius, he could have drawn his abhuman minons from the lift operators, who I always imagined as ratings.

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Anonymous Tue 05 Jul 2011 20:31:37 No.15483892 Report

Quoted By: >>15484155 >>15486597

>>And if he's in tertius, he could have drawn his abhuman minons from the lift operators, who I always imagined as ratings.

I can see him 'hiring' some rats to serve him as his eyes and hears and a few others in sniper duty.

Anonymous Tue 05 Jul 2011 21:04:47 No.15484155 Report

Quoted By: >>15484203

>>15440686
>>15448131
>>15451672
>>15451059
>>15454735
>>15457501
>>15478318
>>15480874
>>15483892

Who's the chick? I first thought sum Touhou but I guess not?

Anonymous Tue 05 Jul 2011 21:10:50 No.15484203 Report

Quoted By:

>>15484155
I believe that's Merry from Yumekui Merry.

Anonymous Tue 05 Jul 2011 21:49:21 No.15484523 Report

Quoted By: >>15485719 >>15486597 >>15486704

>>15483092

Well, when the Inquisitor was rolled up, Archives came up 3 times as assets. I speculated it might represent 3 different asteroid bases. It could be that Pascal is actually the custodian of the records of the Conclave.

Jareddm Tue 05 Jul 2011 23:49:05 No.15485719 Report

Quoted By:

>>15484523
hmm...okay. Unless we just want to make one of the three archive assets the holdings of the scholastica psykana.

Anonymous Tue 05 Jul 2011 23:53:52 No.15485748 Report

Quoted By: >>15486567 >>15486704

I think we should hold off on the Inquisition and Chapter founding until someone can summarize all our material on the subject.

Saltlands sounds better. Less potential for far reaching retcons or accidental goofs.

Jareddm Wed 06 Jul 2011 01:15:15 No.15486567 Report

Quoted By: >>15486704

>>15485748
What we do have is an unmanned, unmarked asteroid under heavy lockdown and automated defenses that contained the original recordings and records pertaining to the chapter's founding and the Inquisitorial conclave that came accompanied it. It's unknown if the EN or even anyone in the inquisition knows of the asteroid hold, let alone where it is orbiting the planet.

Starshadow Wed 06 Jul 2011 01:19:21 No.15486597 Report

Quoted By: >>15486773 >>15486781

>>15483892
Pretty sure we decided the people who lift in the shafts are all human. They wouldn't make good snipers either, lack of sunlight does wacky things to your eyes.

>>15484523
The conclave records don't have a custodian. They are just sealed with every secrecy measure the Inquisition could put on them and trapped to hell and back.

Anonymous Wed 06 Jul 2011 01:31:21 No.15486704 Report

Quoted By:

>>15485748
I would generally agree that we should focus on the satl flats, but I think we've already established that the conclave/chapter founding/etc is all pretty mysterious. As long as we keep that in mind there's no harm in fluffing out some modern day Inquisition stuff. Making Pascal know where the asteroid is let alone being the custodian of it raises a lot of awkward to work out questions though. Best to leave it a forgotten relic lost to all inside the asteroid belt.

>>15486567
Indeed, although I think you meant 'orbiting the system's star' since an asteroid in orbit around Icelus itself would not exactly be lost, even to amateur astronomers or even people who happen to be looking up.

>>15484523
Well we don't have to take that completely literally. He could have a dozen closely linked asteroid bases for just one of those archives, alternatively a single library that is exponentially three times more thorough than the average Inquisitorial library.

Personally I think it makes the most sense for him to be based in Tertius, have a huge facility there for bringing in new psykers, exporting trained ones, researching and so on. Then in addition to that he has a vacation home near Nod and an undisclosed number of retrofitted asteroids scattered throughout the system where he conducts more clandestine experiments without the worry of prying eyes.

Anonymous Wed 06 Jul 2011 01:39:21 No.15486773 Report

Quoted By: >>15486873

>>15486597
Yeah. Icelus has a lot of traffic, so there would be exceptions to the rule like an immigrant ratling family living in Secundus or a few dozen ogryns being bred in captivity for mining purposes but really it's a very genetically pure planet with no indigenous abhuman populations of note. They're all brought in from out of system.

I do think a bunch of highly trained bone'ead ogryns would make a cool bodyguard for our inquisitor though. As for the beastmen and other mutants, perhaps he works with the Sororitas to take mutants when they are found and perform experiments on them at his various asteroid bases.

Pascal relies on his ogryns to subdue even the strongest and most aggressive mutants, then he genetically manipulates them even further in an attempt to weaponize them. There are vast dungeons in his asteroid bases filled with unspeakable horrors and gibbering madmen, each capable of killing a bull grox. Pascal regularly deploys them in suicide waves to shock and demoralize the enemy.

Jareddm Wed 06 Jul 2011 01:41:21 No.15486781 Report

Quoted By:

>>15486597
All I honestly remember about the lifts is that they exist and that there's a culture based around it. Not that they were all human.

>'orbiting the system's star
Indeed.

>undisclosed number of retrofitted asteroids
Which would all be separate from the ancient inquisitorial vault.

Jareddm Wed 06 Jul 2011 01:51:27 No.15486873 Report

Quoted By: >>15487063 >>15488369

>>15486773
I think making him the liason for the Scholastica Psykana and keep him out in the field and doing experiments in an asteroid base and what else was rolled for him is a little much for one inquisitor. There's no reason we can't have two. Pascal can be the elderly inquisitor with the badass hammer that maintains the asteroid bases and imports abhumans. Someone else can deal more with the politics and interactions of the psykana, the black ship, and their relationship with the rest of Icelus.

Anonymous Wed 06 Jul 2011 02:11:27 No.15487063 Report

Quoted By: >>15487371

>>15486873
Yeah maybe. Honestly I was just trying to reconcile the mention of beastmen in the original blurb. I would've just as soon left it out. I just figured it would be one of those things a high level Inquisitor has going on in the background. Not like a focus or anything. He'd have other dudes running it.

If we're going to have two Inquisitors I think Pascal might make more sense as the psykana guy as we have him now with one of the Inquisitors he promoted as his underling supervising the mutant project which is more their thing than Pascal's. Pascal just uses them when he needs hordes of shock troops and his few dozen ogryns wont suffice.

Jareddm Wed 06 Jul 2011 02:46:30 No.15487371 Report

Quoted By: >>15489406

>>15487063
Perhaps his interrogator to maintain that which he established in his youth?

Or perhaps a rival inquisitor who might clash with Pascal's methods on several occasions?

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WE Wed 06 Jul 2011 05:15:57 No.15488369 Report

Quoted By: >>15489406

>>undisclosed number of retrofitted asteroids
>Which would all be separate from the ancient inquisitorial vault.

Quest Potential High. Anyway, fuffling Icelus first, quest later.

>>15486873

Agreed here. Experimental border-line-radical stuff / asteroid labs with Pascal. Political dealings with another Inquisitor who may or may be not in liege with Pascal.

Anonymous Wed 06 Jul 2011 07:26:16 No.15489406 Report

Quoted By: >>15489432

rolled 64, 78 = 142

>>15488369
>>15487371

If you guys don't mind I' going to roll up this rival Inquisitor in the same generator that brought us Pascal.

Also, how about having Pascal collecting rumors and information about the original conclave? His purpose with this is unclear but can generate a lot of campaign hooks.

Anyway, rolling for gender and age.

Anonymous Wed 06 Jul 2011 07:30:18 No.15489432 Report

Quoted By: >>15489459 >>15489529

rolled 86, 97 = 183

>>15489406

Alright, it's a woman of Venerable age. That puts her at slightly younger than Pascal, but old enough to be a political force to be reckoned with. Maybe she's an old Interrogator of his that he elevated to the ranks of the Inquisition in the beginning of his career?

Rolling now for title and philosophy.

Anonymous Wed 06 Jul 2011 07:35:18 No.15489459 Report

Quoted By: >>15489520

rolled 79, 60, 76 = 215

>>15489432

Hmm... Extreme Radical doesn't suit my purposes. So I'm going to use the first roll for philosophy and the second one for title. Making her a Moderate Radical with no title but Inquisitor. This lady lives for her job!

Rolling for methods.

Anonymous Wed 06 Jul 2011 07:43:18 No.15489520 Report

Quoted By: >>15489562

rolled 7 = 7

>>15489459

>Omnia Audax (In all things daring): Constantly challenging authority, popular beliefs and often common sense. When successful, it is most impressive, unfortunately success is often not guaranteed.

This is an interesting methodology to have for a liaison to the Psykana and the Black Ships.

Arte Et Marte (By skill and by fighting): ‘The more you bleed in training, the less you’ll have to bleed in battle,’ seems an ideal motto for the more martially-inclined.

Well, that takes her into a completely different direction than I thought. Rerolling the last roll since it's Omnia Audax again.

Anonymous Wed 06 Jul 2011 07:46:17 No.15489529 Report

Quoted By:

>>15489432
This works. I was just thinking about the rival lady from his past. Has a lot of potential.

Anonymous Wed 06 Jul 2011 07:50:22 No.15489562 Report

Quoted By: >>15489585

rolled 64, 76, 67 = 207

>>15489520

>Fides Omnia Vincit (Faith conquers all): Their faith is a very important part of who this Inquisitor is, whatever it may be, making them unflinching in their personal convictions.

Hmm... She reminds me of Knight-Commander Meredith from Dragon Age 2, actually. And who better to serve as guardian of psykers than an iron-willed, martial-minded, true believer?

Taken together this indicates that she might be a former Sister of Battle. She may view her charges as wretches to be hardened in battle, or tools to be wielded in the Emperor's service, or simply as poor lost souls that must be tended to and protected. In any case, she was one of Pascal's retinue and surely learned the value of tolerating psykers there.

Now rolling for quirks.

Anonymous Wed 06 Jul 2011 07:55:22 No.15489585 Report

Quoted By: >>15489611 >>15489769

rolled 63, 43, 6, 50, 86 = 248

>>15489562

>Celibacy: Either through chemical treatment, personal choice or battlefield injury, the character foregoes pleasures of the flesh.

Our Lady Inquisitor is saving herself for the Emperor.

>Other field of interest: The Inquisitor may enjoy debating philosophy or theology, or then again they take a keen interest in ship-building and can name and identify every bolt, wire and engine in a starship.

I'm a bit at a loss as to what this field of interest may be. Suggestions are welcome.

>Arch-nemesis: The Inquisitor has acquired themselves an arch-nemesis.

Sweet! I propose that her nemesis be a Redemptionist nomad terrorist leader with whom she has clashed with in the past. Manipulated by the Alpha Legion, this nomad struck at Tertius, abducting several psykers.

Rolling resources.

Anonymous Wed 06 Jul 2011 08:01:24 No.15489611 Report

Quoted By: >>15489639

rolled 60, 73 = 133

>>15489585

>Assassins: Not Ordo Assassinorum trained, nevertheless still well-trained and motivated killers.

Our Inquisitor maintains a retinue of trained assassins for anti-terrorism purposes. They are also ideally suited to hunt down rogue psykers.

>Armed spaceship: Roll on the ‘Armed spaceship’ table.

A militant lady such as our Inquisitor needs to travel in style. With lots of guns.

>Ties with…

We'll see what these ties will be shortly.

>Archeotech: Ancient and baroque machinery has been unearthed by the Inquisitor from humanity’s past. Who knows what it could do?

Interesting. I suggest that this item is housed in the Inquisitor's fortress on Tertius, within Mount Telthon. Perhaps it has something to do with psykers?

>Special weaponry: This could be Ordo-specific, such as a Deamonhammer, or a master-crafted power sword that is a great relic.

Our Lady has a weapon that is the envy of many. Now rolling for ties and armed ship.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace 1258725725533.jpg, 166KiB, 1556x1000

Anonymous Wed 06 Jul 2011 08:07:27 No.15489639 Report

Quoted By: >>15489658

>>15489611

So, our Lady flies a frigate and has ties to the Adeptus Astra Telepathica! Which suits her perfectly since she's based right next door to an Astropathic Choir.

So, in sum, a militant warden of psykers, with close ties to Pascal and a head full of ideals and faith, even in her Venerable age. All we need now is a name.

Anonymous Wed 06 Jul 2011 08:10:27 No.15489658 Report

Quoted By:

>>15489639

Sorry, that's supposed to be a carrier, not a frigate. Perhaps she has her own Black Ship?

Randomly generating a name gave me "Mayra Ushas". Why not? Gentlemen, I submit Lady Inquisitor Mayra Ushas for your approval.

Anonymous Wed 06 Jul 2011 08:27:29 No.15489744 Report

Quoted By: >>15489777

I like her. She'll need to be expanded on but the rolls, like the Nightmares own original Rites of Battle rolls, are a great starting place.

I approve of the idea that she was originally drafted into Pascal's retinue from the Sororitas. Maybe not actually a Sister of Silence but something like that in her background would make sense given her current job. Assassins make sense. Celebacy due to personal choice following [REDACTED] between herself and Inquisitor Pascal also fits. Militant and faithful all works too. As to the redemptionist nemesis... that works BUT

Inquisitors usually don't confine themselves to a single world. This one might, given that it's her assigned role, and Pascal might usually be nearby to Icelus given his personal proclivities, but calling some lowly inbred redemptionist from the salt flats a nemesis makes her feel less powerful than she is by association y'know? Even if he's a powerful and dangerous leader he's still just a bum in the desert of some planet. Either play him down as a mild irritation to her work or play him up as a psychopathic demagogue who is constantly trying to murder psykers of any sort all across Icelus. If he has the attention of one of the God-Emperor's Holy Inquisitors, lets make him have earned it.

Anonymous Wed 06 Jul 2011 08:31:25 No.15489769 Report

Quoted By: >>15489789

>>15489585
>Suggestions are welcome.

Lady Inquisitor Mayra Ushas has an obsessive fascination with cooking and exotic cuisines/drinks.

Gotta do something to keep busy when you're celibate; why not trade it for another pleasure? Unless you think I'm being too "hurr woman lieks cooking".

Anonymous Wed 06 Jul 2011 08:33:26 No.15489777 Report

Quoted By:

>>15489744

That is true. Maybe the Alpha Legionnaire backers would be more appropriate as nemesi. Or something completely unrelated to Icelus. Not everything has to happen on that particular world, and since Lady Ushas is a militant sort I imagine her taking active part in wars and crusades all over the sector when she's not busy tending to her wayward flock. It gives us an opportunity to establish ties between Icelus and the rest of the sector.

Anonymous Wed 06 Jul 2011 08:35:27 No.15489787 Report

Quoted By: >>15489796

What tables are you using you roll up that inquisitor?

Anonymous Wed 06 Jul 2011 08:35:27 No.15489789 Report

Quoted By: >>15489804 >>15489939

>>15489769

Trading a pleasure of the flesh for another pleasure of the flesh kind of reduces the impact of celibacy. But hey, it's possible.

Another idea is that we previously mentioned an Inquisitor that collected birds, and took an intrest in the avian nature of Icelian fauna. Maybe that's her?

Anonymous Wed 06 Jul 2011 08:36:28 No.15489796 Report

Quoted By:

>>15489787

http://darkreign40k.com/drjoomla/index.php/npcs/pcs/1326-instant-inquisitor-maker-for-any-rpg-system

It's pretty useful.

Anonymous Wed 06 Jul 2011 08:38:29 No.15489804 Report

Quoted By: >>15489837 >>15490780

>>15489789
It could work. Even ties in with her ties to astropaths; she sees them as little "birds" that she must keep caged away, lest they fly away and mutate into something horrible.

Everything is better caged. Cages keep things orderly and in their place.

Anonymous Wed 06 Jul 2011 08:45:32 No.15489837 Report

Quoted By:

>>15489804

Got me thinking of Varys from GoT and how he referred to his spies as "little birds". She could refer to her acolytes in this way. "My little birds tell me a cult is taking root in Waystation Morus... See to it, would you?"

Starshadow Wed 06 Jul 2011 09:01:39 No.15489939 Report

Quoted By: >>15489994

>>15489789
Nah I think we should keep the bird thing separate. That would be trying to put too many things into the same Inquisitor's character sheet.

We know the bird guy is from the Ordo Xenos and maintains a large aviary in the middle of Hive Quintus. Doesn't sound much like Mayra.

Anonymous Wed 06 Jul 2011 09:09:39 No.15489994 Report

Quoted By: >>15490417

>>15489939
But then we have three different inquisitors all chilling on the same planet. Getting a little crowded y'know?

The bird thing doesn't fit perfectly with our lady Inquisitor but it has some interesting themes. I like the cages life philosophy in particular.

I dunno.

I say we sleep on it, so to speak. come back to that particular detail later because it both fits and it doesn't fit.

Starshadow Wed 06 Jul 2011 10:21:43 No.15490417 Report

Quoted By: >>15490437 >>15490780

rolled 15 = 15

>>15489994
Crowded? Since when was that a problem? Its not like each Inquisitor is claiming the planet as their personal kingdom. 3 inquisitors would certainly seem out of place on most planets. But Icelus is not most planets.

If you mean 3 notable inquisitors in positions of authority, then I can understand your concern. But that doesn't rule out having others on the planet "operating" or on assignment from higher up.

Icelus and the Nightmare's have a close 3000 year history with the Inquisition. To the point where the Inquisition has an official outpost on the planet. (probably unique among space marine homeworlds) And the Sororitas are considered an integral part of the chapters recruiting trials.

Also, the idea behind the bird guy is not some obsession with "caged life". He is a member of the Ordo Xenos trying to figure out why nearly every creature on Icelus has some form of bird-like feature. Evolution alone could not explain it, so uncovering the forces at play is a serious mission for him. The aviary is as much research as it is part of hos hobby.

Anonymous Wed 06 Jul 2011 10:25:43 No.15490437 Report

Quoted By: >>15491131 >>15493981 >>15496660

>>15490417

>But Icelus is not most planets.

Is it a super special snowflake planet? Where there's lots of Inquisitors AND a Marine Chapter AND a Sororitas Convent AND a Scholastica Psykana? All working together?

Anonymous Wed 06 Jul 2011 11:29:49 No.15490780 Report

Quoted By:

>>15490417
I meant the cages philosophy in reference to how the birds thing /might/ apply to Mayra as seen in >>15489804

>Icelus and the Nightmare's have a close 3000 year history with the Inquisition. To the point where the Inquisition has an official outpost on the planet. (probably unique among space marine homeworlds) And the Sororitas are considered an integral part of the chapters recruiting trials.

That's a fair point. I dunno. Personally I was against creating Mayra to begin with. An inquisitor can do more than one thing. They're damned Inquisitors. They can have fifty things going on if they like. No one is going to tell an Inquisitor they're not allowed to study mutants, oversee the psykana AND study xenos birds. But Mayra turned out kinda cool so I'm coming round.

I'm hesitant to add a third but maybe if he moves around a lot and Icelus is just his base of operations for the sector, rather than specifically where he spends all his time...? (Which might make sense if he's off studying xenos stuff all the time.)

All that said, for the sake of Dark Heresy Campaigns a third inquisitor in the area is probably a good idea. Mexican standoffs and so on.

Anonymous Wed 06 Jul 2011 12:55:56 No.15491131 Report

Quoted By:

>>15490437
Not a convent so much as Sisters Hospitaller, who are more or less common across the entire galaxy, but you have a point.

We should note that this is unusual, and that some think it's to keep an eye on the Nightmares as much as anything else...

Jareddm Wed 06 Jul 2011 13:02:59 No.15491157 Report

Quoted By: >>15491377

Damn, lots to comment on. Shame it'll have to be later.

Quick response.
Like the new inquisitor. Like the cage philosophy. Perhaps she used to be part of the black ships? (who runs those anyway?) Hell her Nemesis could be Pascal, after their rather harsh separation and her extreme measures to make sure it never happens again.

Anonymous Wed 06 Jul 2011 13:17:01 No.15491227 Report

Quoted By:

Guy that rolled up Pascal here, liking the direction you've taken him and his old pupil. Good job guys, I'm liking where this thread is going.

Anonymous Wed 06 Jul 2011 13:47:09 No.15491377 Report

Quoted By: >>15491726 >>15492107 >>15492236

>>15491157
There should totally be an enmity and bitterness between them but I see Mayra as too professional and Pascal as too distracted for them to really be at each others throats very often. Mostly they're just kinda jerks to each other and try to avoid being at the same parties.

Anonymous Wed 06 Jul 2011 14:56:18 No.15491726 Report

Quoted By: >>15492107

>>15491377
>Next Week, on another episode of Mayra & Pascal...

Mayra: Oooh, she's having a birthday party!

Pascal: Oooh, she's giving out free booze!

>laugh track

What will happen when our two favorite inquisitors meet face to face for the first time since [REDACTED]?

>side-view of a power-glove powering up with the background in focus, followed by power glove going out of focus and Pascal shown in focus laughing his ass off/drunk

>Cut to Logo

Mayra & Pascal: Inquisitors At Large. Available from your local cable provider.

Jareddm Wed 06 Jul 2011 15:57:50 No.15492107 Report

Quoted By: >>15492447 >>15492981

>>15491377
This is exactly the personality I imagined for the two of them. Mayra is the one with the nemesis because she still holds some deep hatred for him that she holds in check, whereas Pascal might barely even acknowledge their relationship.
I do think Mayra should have been formally part of the Black Ships. It explains the lack of title and why she's an excellent choice for the liaison position, a position that comes with the added responsibility of keeping an eye of the Nightmares.

As for the bird obsession, perhaps we could move that from the inquisitor to the head of the archeologists college. His beliefs about the connection between the local fauna and intelligent xenos is something that has brought him dangerously close to being confronted by the inquisition in the past.

>>15491726
I would so watch that!

Anonymous Wed 06 Jul 2011 16:15:50 No.15492236 Report

Quoted By:

>>15491377

Another point to mention is that Mayra isn't a native Icelian. She views the local traditions with suspicion, whereas Pascal knows them and can utilize local resources well.

Anonymous Wed 06 Jul 2011 16:42:52 No.15492447 Report

Quoted By: >>15493981

>>15492107
Might give too much fuel for Tsundere applications.

Anonymous Wed 06 Jul 2011 17:39:02 No.15492981 Report

Quoted By: >>15493006 >>15493027 >>15494470

>>15492107
I dig all of this although I'll still refrain from using the word nemesis to describe their relationship. I don't think she actively plots his downfall, she just really hates him because he [REDACTED]

So I think we all want Mayra to be involved with the Black Ships more directly, with the possibility that her heavily armed cruiser even IS a Black Ship

So now the question is: was she a Sister of Silence before her recruitment by Pascal or was she just a clever but otherwise ordinary Sororitas?

I submit that Mayra is indeed a null and rose to the rank of Oblivion Knight in the Sisters of Silence before being seconded to Pascal's command. She's a total stone badass.

[REDACTED] has something to do with her breaking her vow of silence for Pascal. (Saying "redacted" all the time in the context of what might be a lovers quarrel has comedy potential though so lets not go into details)

Anonymous Wed 06 Jul 2011 17:43:03 No.15493006 Report

Quoted By: >>15493044

>>15492981

Wouldn't a null be very difficult to interact with for most people? Especially psykers? She's supposed to be a liaison and stuff, remember.

Her assassin retinue could well have nulls in it, though. What better way to hunt psykers?

Anonymous Wed 06 Jul 2011 17:46:50 No.15493027 Report

Quoted By:

>>15492981
To expand on that, she kinda needs to be allowed to talk to be an effective liaison. Breaking her oath for whatever reason when in Pascal's employ facilitates that quite nicely and regardless of the why it helps explain her enmity for the man ("I sacrificed my honour for you you bastard")

It also gives a good reason why she isn't like a fleet commander now and has this kinda weird Inquisitor-In-Name-Only job instead where her being a stone badass is rarely relevant.

Anonymous Wed 06 Jul 2011 17:48:50 No.15493044 Report

Quoted By: >>15493427

>>15493006
Yeah, that's the counterpoint. Null + vow of silence = bad liaison.

That said, she'd mostly be interacting with other nulls and psykers as part of her job.

If she's not a Sister of Silence the other logical choice is a Nightingale, but then she's not from off world like we were talking about.

Anonymous Wed 06 Jul 2011 18:40:14 No.15493427 Report

Quoted By: >>15493556

>>15493044

Wouldn't the other logical choice be... a regular-ass Battle Sister? From one of the major convents? I mean, Ophelia VII is in the same sector as Icelus.

Also,

>Inquisitor-In-Name-Only job

Where is that implied or stated? She's a regular Inquisitor, just based on Mount Telthon and is heavily involved with the running of the Astropathic Choir and Psykana there. She still does her Inquisitorial duties, personally as well as via her acolyte cells.

Anonymous Wed 06 Jul 2011 18:58:20 No.15493556 Report

Quoted By:

>>15493427
Inquisitor-In-Name-Only simply as a condescension due to her posting. I don't picture it as a very glorifying career being the psykana-black ship liaison. She is a full Inquisitor of course, but she's shat on by both the order she forsook and by her mentor Pascal. She's too damned good at what she does to be stuck as a liaison for the rest of her life, yet too busy with paperwork to even go off world very often.

And yeah. Regular battle sister from Ophelia works fine, I'm just starting to really like this "broke her vow of silence" idea.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace 1309982117953.jpg, 438KiB, 800x600

WE Wed 06 Jul 2011 19:55:33 No.15493981 Report

Quoted By:

>>15492447

How is that bad?

>>15490437

As the picture of Icelus becomes clearer*, it is to be expected that the planet will look supra speshal when viewed on high level, but that's because all the details that people is working out make it look that way.

Jareddm Wed 06 Jul 2011 20:50:40 No.15494470 Report

Quoted By: >>15497371

>>15492981
There is absolutely no evidence that
A) the Sisters of Silence exist in M41

B)the Sisters of Silence even run the Black Ships

C)The Sisters of Silence or the Black Ships have anything at all to do with the Adepta Sororitas

That said, I'm not opposed to her assassins at least in part being nulls. There's also no reason she, as a regular inquisitor, couldn't have been in charge of running one of the black ships. Also, I'm torn between coming up with the reason for the enmity between her and Pascal or just leaving it as a mystery.

Jareddm Thu 07 Jul 2011 00:24:14 No.15496577 Report

Quoted By:

bump

Starshadow Thu 07 Jul 2011 00:33:14 No.15496660 Report

Quoted By: >>15496690 >>15496761 >>15496804

rolled 31 = 31

>>15490437
Basically, in the beginning the Nightmare's were a fairly normal space marine chapter. They had the sleep defect, but compared to some of the other vampires and furries I could mention, its pretty tame for a mutation. And then it was discovered that they were vulnerable to DAEMONIC POSESSION while asleep. This kind of thing sets off warning bells of the highest level. Normally what would happen is the grey knights arrive and purge the planet.

But they didn't, for a couple of reasons:
1. Purging Icelus would lose the Imperium a hive world and deprive the entire sub-sector of its armoury.
2. Dreamwalking Nightmares can fight the daemons they encounter in their dreams, keeping them away from Icelus.

So instead, the Inquisition took a gamble and put the Nightmares on probation. The chapter would not be allowed to exist without constant scrutiny at all levels. Each Ordo went about this a different way:

Xenos: Inducted the marines into the Deathwatch ensuring that they knew how to resist the influence of alien parties. (Eldar dickery for instance). And also act to prevent any xenos influence of Icelus itself. For instance, crazy bird inquisitor's job is to determine if the evolution of Icelus fauna was natural or influenced by outside factors.

Hereticus: Charged the Sororitas to watch over the people of the planet and screen them for any mutations. Essentially becoming an integral part to Icelus society and the recruiting trials. Ensuring that no tainted aspirants make it into the chapter's ranks. (at all costs)

Malleus: Lastly, an official Inquisition outpost was established in Hive Primus. This helps to explain why Inquisitors are common on the planet. Its (original) purpose was to provide a rapid response team for daemonic incursions. Something you will always need whenever there is a concentration of psykers. (An academy for instance)

Anonymous Thu 07 Jul 2011 00:36:15 No.15496690 Report

Quoted By: >>15496856

No Sisters of Silence. Nothing of that sort at all. Just the odd weak null, no more than ten in the entire system and those are mostly retinue fodder anyway.

Also, no Daemonic possession was recorded to happen or even confirmed as possible, but the mere thought was enough to spark such measures.

>>15496660
Of course, no one told the Nightmares the whole story behind the "patronage". They're bright enough to figure it out from the initial "probation".

Starshadow Thu 07 Jul 2011 00:45:15 No.15496761 Report

Quoted By: >>15496826

>>15496660
Now, you bet your ass that the Inquisition was poised to bring the hammer down at a moments notice and purge the chapter to oblivion. But a couple centuries passed without major incident and Inquisitors began to pass away. The records of the conclave were sealed and tagged as need to know. No new Inquisitors were allowed to see the records, and to even know they exist you have to be guilty of heresy or among the highest ranks of the Inquisition. (maybe both!)

So all of the factions involved in the probation just kept on operating as if nothing changed. This is the reason so many factions are present on the same planet. They are each working in concert to a single goal. They might not remember the specifics, but they recognize that to ignore their task could lead to danger.

Anonymous Thu 07 Jul 2011 00:46:15 No.15496775 Report

Quoted By: >>15496945 >>15497371

There is a point where this needs to stop and we have clearly passed it.

Jareddm Thu 07 Jul 2011 00:49:15 No.15496804 Report

Quoted By: >>15496945

>>15496660
You forgot the most important reason the Nightmares survived inquisitorial scrutiny. They found a way to prevent demonic possession through the development of the dreamcatchers. This feels like the more important reason that the Ordo Malleus gave the Nightmares a pass.

The more I think about it, the more I don't like the idea of an official inquisition outpost on Icelus. The position of "Scholastica Liaison" may have been established as a more covert watch on the Nightmares, in addition to it's normal function. though the chapter is certainly smart enough to recognize the position's true purpose.

Between the Sisters watching the Aspirants in the open and the Liaison watching the Nightmares behind closed doors, an official inquisitorial outpost seems overbearing.

Anonymous Thu 07 Jul 2011 00:50:15 No.15496812 Report

Quoted By: >>15496849 >>15496945

Man has a point. We don't want them to become the Ice Serpents.

Let's call it a day on the Chapter history and move on to something more modern. Details of canonized conflicts from the archived threads?

Jareddm Thu 07 Jul 2011 00:51:16 No.15496826 Report

Quoted By: >>15496945

>>15496761
The whole probation period seems kinda weak to be honest. It just doesn't have that inquisitorial feel.

Jareddm Thu 07 Jul 2011 00:53:17 No.15496849 Report

Quoted By: >>15496941

>>15496812
We're just trying to get the details straight. No one's adding anything crazy or new.

As for the canon conflicts, were there any you had in mind specifically? Personally I feel we need more large scale dreamscape battles against the Minions of Khaliman. They're our primary enemy but it feels we never interact with them.

Starshadow Thu 07 Jul 2011 00:54:20 No.15496856 Report

Quoted By: >>15496954

>>15496690
We never worked out the specifics. But you raise a good point. ACTUAL possessed marines would bring in the grey knights, no questions asked.

So maybe what happened was they started to encounter and fight daemons in the warp, and then called the Inquisition for help. Normally a psyker with daemons in his dreams is a disaster waiting to happen. But Nightmares are a cut above, and respond differently thanks to their mutation.

No marines were ever possessed. But the danger was very real. So instead of purging, the Inquisition mitigated that danger, allowing the Nightmares to continue on and producing the chapter we know today.

>15496660
Stealthy satan get. The Emperor protects brothers!

Anonymous Thu 07 Jul 2011 01:06:20 No.15496941 Report

Quoted By:

>>15496849
Have many seemingly innocent conflicts be the work of said daemon or his pawns. Gives more of a reason for Malleus involvement with the Nightmares.

Also, have probation be something that's a one-note at most. Expired and forgotten centuries ago and now left only in the most ancient Chapter and Inquisition records and the institutions it founded.

Starshadow Thu 07 Jul 2011 01:06:20 No.15496945 Report

Quoted By:

>>15496804
Oh yes I forgot about the dreamcatchers. That above all is what kept the chapter from getting purged. The catchers prevent the possibility of daemonic possession while asleep, closing off that vulnerability.

When I say "official inquisition outpost" don't read too much into it. Its just as low-key and nondescript as any other outpost. The "official" part indicates its part of the official organization, and not some radical inquisitor's frat house.

Like I said, its original purpose was to house a daemon response team. It was only put to use a handful of times over the first millennial and none of the victims were marines. It has since evolved into a "plain" outpost.

>>15496826
What? Did you miss the fact that the Inquisition was holding a gun to the head of the chapter for a couple hundred years? That sounds exactly like the Inquisition.

>>15496812
>>15496775
We are not making this up on the spot you know. The Conclave and its ramifications were thought up and agreed upon a LONG time ago. We are simply rendering the events in more detail.

I know people want to move away from endlessly fluffing the Nightmares. But this is history that doesn't apply just to the marines. People said having 3 Inquisitors on the planet would be too much. I said no, and this explains why.

Anonymous Thu 07 Jul 2011 01:08:20 No.15496954 Report

Quoted By: >>15496996 >>15497366 >>15497428

>>15496856

This is getting dangerously close to Grey Knight territory. I've personally never liked the part in the fluff where the Nightmares ACTUALLY fight daemons in the Warp FOR REAL, enough to banish daemons and calm the local area. I know this is a pretty esteblished fact by now, but I'd still like some wiggle room. Couldn't it be enough that the dreams give portents and warnings of battles to come, or representations of the Marine fighting off temptations and corruption in his own mind? I mean, the Nightmares have a special kind of focus and concentration that few other chapters can achieve. Surely that's enough of a special trait?

Jareddm Thu 07 Jul 2011 01:13:36 No.15496996 Report

Quoted By: >>15497403

>>15496954
The differences between the EN and the Grey Knights is we're willing to say that the EN lose a couple times. Dying in the dreamscapes is dying for real for the marines.It's also important to realize that only those marines with psychic potential(though not just those with enough potential to be librarians) can fight in the dreamscape. All other marines, simply sleep.

Jareddm Thu 07 Jul 2011 01:50:36 No.15497342 Report

Quoted By:

Right then. Famous battles.

We have a 5th and 9th company operation against Dark Eldar that failed because of Theuros.

We have the Expletus Dissimul Insurrection

We have the battle against the Fire Wyrm that made Theuros a hero.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head, but here's a few new ideas.

2nd and 8th company on an industrial world against Khaliman-sponsored, heavily-armed, heretics. The two decided to unleash the rarely seen tactic of 10 Icelus dreads.

4th and 6th + 1st company reinforcement on a space hulk infested with tyranid and genestealers. First contact of the tyranid by the Nightmares

3rd and 6th on a fallen fortress world on the border of the Veiled Region. Massive siege. Infiiltration failed. Captain Leander Nyseos refuses to call on sleepless. Captain Arkanden Varykai does so anyway without Nyseos knowing. Despite the victory, Nyseos feels betrayed by Varykai.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace 1310003540515.jpg, 294KiB, 649x1000

WE Thu 07 Jul 2011 01:52:37 No.15497366 Report

Quoted By: >>15500601

>>We don't want them to become the Ice Serpents.

What do they mean by this?

>>15496954

I really like how all of the EN fight awake AND in sleep. Do these battles really 'happen'? Do all of the EN fight in them? Does it really have a noticeable effect in the warp? What about other races?

Lots of questions and unique circumstances are seriously part of their appeal.

Anonymous Thu 07 Jul 2011 01:52:03 No.15497371 Report

Quoted By:

>>15494470
There is also no evidence whatsoever that they don't still exist and that they don't still run the black ships.

But yeah. They have nothing to do with the Sororitas. I don't think it was actually implied that they did, the two were just mentioned at the same time.

>>15496775
We do that sometimes already. Especially as we accumulate more and more fluff. The trick is to remain self aware, collectively catch ourselves and then dial things back down.

Anonymous Thu 07 Jul 2011 01:55:38 No.15497403 Report

Quoted By: >>15497420 >>15497440

>>15496996

>.It's also important to realize that only those marines with psychic potential(though not just those with enough potential to be librarians) can fight in the dreamscape. All other marines, simply sleep.

So this thing only affects a fraction of the chapter? Why the conclave, then? The Inquisition could have simply enforced that the chapter would be forbidden to induct psykers into its ranks. Problem solved, no more suspicious dreamwalking.

Anonymous Thu 07 Jul 2011 01:56:38 No.15497420 Report

Quoted By:

>>15497403

Also, if it only affects psykers, why do all Nightmare marines make and wear dreamcatchers?

Anonymous Thu 07 Jul 2011 01:57:38 No.15497428 Report

Quoted By: >>15497519 >>15500601

>>15496954
I'm totally with you. It's my least favourite part of the chapter too, BUT it does have some cool parts and there is wiggle room in that 90% of the time there's no proof it wasn't a normal, if weird, dream.

Librarians and other psykers, when you think about it, already do this all over the place. They're constantly harrassed by daemons during their waking and sleeping hours etc etc etc.

It's not thaaaat much to handwave if you're not a fan and there's just enough wiggle room both ways that everyone is happy.

Jareddm Thu 07 Jul 2011 01:58:41 No.15497440 Report

Quoted By: >>15497519 >>15498638 >>15500601

>>15497403
From what I understand, a marine can only fight back if he has psychic potential, but all marines are at risk of possession. Thus why all Nightmares have a dreamcatcher. Though to be honest, I just came up with this explanation now.

Anonymous Thu 07 Jul 2011 02:05:41 No.15497519 Report

Quoted By: >>15497595 >>15498638 >>15500601

>>15497440

>From what I understand, a marine can only fight back if he has psychic potential, but all marines are at risk of possession.

Do you mean that every night, every non-psychic Marine in the Emperor's Nightmare is raped by daemons, unable to resist or fight back?

How has the entire chapter not gone insane yet? And if you say it's the dreamcatchers, why didn't they go insane before the dreamcatchers were invented?

>>15497428
>Librarians and other psykers, when you think about it, already do this all over the place. They're constantly harrassed by daemons during their waking and sleeping hours etc etc etc.

Then why make it a special part of the fluff for the Nightmares? It makes them seem unique, the only faction in the entire Imperium that has daemon-fighting in their dreams, when in truth, your garden-variety sanctioned psyker does the same shit every night.

See what I mean? This part of the fluff just creates more and more problems the more you try to justify and rationalize it.

Jareddm Thu 07 Jul 2011 02:14:41 No.15497595 Report

Quoted By:

>>15497519
They're not under attack every sleeping second. If anything, I'd say when they're asleep, they're about as resistant to possession as a normal human. Which is to say a hell of a lot less resistant than they should be. The dreamcatcher just gives them that extra push by putting a barrier around them while they sleep. And why didn't this occur prior to the dreamcatcher existing? Because the original Nightmares were Raven Guards. The dreamcatcher was developed approximately around the same time the first true batch of Nightmares were reaching maturity.

Jareddm Thu 07 Jul 2011 03:00:46 No.15498097 Report

Quoted By:

Anyway, more battles!

2nd company and a special contingent of Raven Guard. Deep into the Veiled Region to recover a lost Raven Guard relic. The two travel to planet covered in xenotech ruins. They find the relic only to discover the ancient xenos, a vicious, partially incorporeal race is still alive. They fight their way off the planet, relic in hand, and bombard as much of the planet as they can from orbit. The Raven Guard are extremely grateful for the assistance.

8th and 9th company, an unusual pairing to take down a growing Ork Waagh across 4 planets at the same time. The plan goes off fantastically with the Waagh imploding in on itself before it could begin.

5th and 7th are sent to the aid of a hive world under assault by dark eldar bordering the Veiled Region. 7th manages to halt the dark eldar advance by matching the xenos strike for strike while 5th succeeds in a raid to knock out the xeno's webway gates. Less than half of the fleeing dark eldar raiders make it through the webway before it collapses.

Anonymous Thu 07 Jul 2011 03:40:00 No.15498638 Report

Quoted By: >>15498788 >>15499093

>>15497440
>>15497519
No. No random possession chance. That's just heading into psyker/why haven't these guys been purged yet territory. The "fighting in dreams" bit should be somewhat ambiguous, at least for outsiders.

Jareddm Thu 07 Jul 2011 03:52:59 No.15498788 Report

Quoted By: >>15498837

>>15498638
This is what the dreamcatchers are for and why they're so important. They're vital to the continued existence of the chapter. Without it, the chapter never would've made it past the conclave when they were first founded.

I promise you, we've put a lot of thought into this. It does make sense, even if we're not doing a great job of explaining it.

Anonymous Thu 07 Jul 2011 03:57:57 No.15498837 Report

Quoted By: >>15498919 >>15498998 >>15499093

>>15498788
I'm not exactly a newcomer to the Nightmare threads, and the random warp possession doesn't seem to add up. Dreamcatchers or not. Allegedly fighting Chaos in their sleep is one thing, an actual significant risk of possession with only dreamcatchers preventing it is another

Jareddm Thu 07 Jul 2011 04:06:08 No.15498919 Report

Quoted By:

>>15498837
I never said it's ever happened before. Only that the Nightmares are susceptible to it. And that's enough to warrant the inquisition stepping in and demanding the chapter be purged. It's like a company recall on an item that could potentially spontaneously combust, but never has. The dreamcatcher is to give the inquisition at least some peace of mind in regards to the susceptibility of the Nightmares.

Anonymous Thu 07 Jul 2011 04:16:12 No.15498998 Report

Quoted By: >>15499057 >>15499361 >>15500781

>>15498837
Also and old-timer and I'm kinda with this guy, even though yeah, I remember this all making more sense once upon a time too so it was probably explained really well in some past thread.

Anyway perhaps there's a workaround in the phrasing anyway.

There are a lot of psykers on Icelus, the psykana is kind of a hub for blackships after all, as such their presence in the warp would attract a greater than normal number of daemons. There are minor psykers in many chapters that aren't good enough to be trained by the librarium Nightmares happen to have a few dozen more on average than most chapters. These minor psykers spend their coma like sleeps with their minds fleeting over the veiled edge of the warp. An eddy or a shoal in the great oceans of madness. Together with the librarium they seek to shield the psykana. Due to the Nightmares additional efforts to remove daemons from the warp around Icelus the psykana is relatively safe, however due to the minor psykers within the Nightmare actively seeking out and confronting the daemons attempting to possess new initiates of the psykana, they are at more risk than normal of possession themselves. Not much higher risk as they're pretty good at what they do, but certainly higher than if they just sat around with their minds in normal dreams and didn't actively try to thwart the daemonic possessions of aspiring Imperial psykers using nothing but willpower.

Work better? It's all in the phrasing. Dreamcatchers, for their part, are many things but among those they're just a basic ward against possession like any other. Just in case it happens. The chapter is only at further risk of possession than any other marines who fight chaos because their few dozen Dreamwalkers are specifically fighting daemons that want to possess a psyker.

Anonymous Thu 07 Jul 2011 04:23:31 No.15499057 Report

Quoted By:

>>15498998
*excuse me, not good enough to /join/ the librarium. Obviously they'd still be trained for safety reasons etc.

Anonymous Thu 07 Jul 2011 04:27:31 No.15499093 Report

Quoted By:

>>15498638 >>15498837 here. I don't think the Inquisition would find dreamcatchers reassuring, and the mass risk of possession is pretty problematic. Just have it be unconfirmed rumours that such things could happen among the rank and file Nightmares, and have it be one of the reasons for the Inquisition's concern around their founding. Also, the Chapter believes that dreamcatchers are useful for stopping said possession.

Remember, we're making Sleepy Marines who fight even in dreams, not the Thousand Sons.

Jareddm Thu 07 Jul 2011 04:59:31 No.15499361 Report

Quoted By:

>Just have it be unconfirmed rumours that such things could happen among the rank and file Nightmares, and have it be one of the reasons for the Inquisition's concern around their founding.

This is all I've been saying the whole time! 'Unconfirmed rumor' only means 'no one has seen it ever happen but it is theoretically possible'

>>15498998
Pretty much exactly what I was going for, with one exception.

>they seek to shield the psykana.
Only part of their duty. The dreamscapes, and by projection, the warp, don't exactly follow Euclidian geometry. I was thinking the dreamers could extend their reach out a bit further. I'm not talking sector hoping, but at the least to the border of the Veiled Region.

Bed time. See you all in the morning.

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WE Thu 07 Jul 2011 06:29:35 No.15500216 Report

Quoted By:

>>Just have it be unconfirmed rumours that such things could happen among the rank and file Nightmares, and have it be one of the reasons for the Inquisition's concern around their founding.

Exactly. Remember, if even a single case had been so far as insinuated.. The GKs would had long, long ago laid Icelus to nothing.

Starshadow Thu 07 Jul 2011 07:11:35 No.15500601 Report

Quoted By:

>>15497366
The Ice Serpents are another /tg/ chapter. They came about because of one guy doing rolls on a random planet generator. The original setting was actually pretty cool. A 99% ocean planet, what surface isn't tsunami level rough is frozen solid for hundreds of meters. The water under the ice is warmer and fairly stable and this "inner ocean" is where the people live. But the concept got a little muddled when people started turning it into a joke chapter.

>>15497428
>>15497440
>>15497519
I think we need to return to the original concept. Marines that dream. The Nightmares sleep on a monthly cycle, not a daily cycle. Most of the time they go into a coma-like state for this period. But every now and then they dream. Ever had a lucid dream? Eventually they always come to an end because its morning and we wake up. But a marine could end up having a lucid dream that lasts a MONTH.

If its a good dream, cool. But what if it was a bad dream? Having a nightmare that I can't wake up from is not kosher.

Could such a nightmare involve, say, fighting daemons in the warp?

Starshadow Thu 07 Jul 2011 07:31:36 No.15500745 Report

Quoted By:

>your garden-variety sanctioned psyker does the same shit every night.
But your garden variety sanction psyker doesn't sleep for months at a time and has a brain wired to explode in the event that something happens.

This is where we can draw the root of the problem. Psykers in the imperium have to put up with the warp ALL THE TIME. A sleeping mind might unintentionally make a connection to the warp, same thing with an awake mind using a psychic power.

The danger for the nightmares is those who have psychic powers, but not the full powers of a librarian. A fully trained librarian is perfectly capable of raping face if daemons appear. But other marines lack the training and special equipment. When these marines sleep, their mind is much more vulnerable because it might stay connected to the warp for a long time.

When you think about it, this is the same danger a sanctioned psyker faces every night. And sanctioned psykers ARE tolerated by the Imperium. So long as measures are taken to prevent possession and the psykers are placed under the scrutiny of the Inquisition.

So essentially, the Inquisition extended to the Nightmares the same probation. We will help you mitigate the dangers involved with your powers. But if something happens, well, boom headshot and all that.

Starshadow Thu 07 Jul 2011 07:40:37 No.15500781 Report

Quoted By:

>>15498998
We will have to figure out how the psykana figures into this. The school was not built until after the conclave. But it makes sense that the Nightmares would reach out the other group of skilled psykers on the planet, namely the astropaths.

If a marine found orks in his dream he would probably attack them immediately. Same thing with a librarian and a daemon. Perhaps another psyker on the planet was being threatened and a librarian happened upon the scene. Basically, "WTF ru doing? COME AT ME". What they learned from this is that the dreamwalkers fighting stuff in their dreams actually has an effect on the real world.

If the marines saved someone from possession, that would explain their friendship with the psykana, and astropaths. They would have argued for the chapters continued survival because of the benefits of their protection.

As to the dreamcatchers. The exact use and meaning varies between marines. To most marines the dreamcatcher is just a comforting totem. Used to help remember their dreams and deal with the reality of their unique sleeping situation. This fits with the concept that we originally rolled.

For a dreamwalker, the dreamcatcher doubles as a mind shield against the warp. Meant to take effect while a marine sleeps.

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Anonymous Thu 07 Jul 2011 09:21:45 No.15501343 Report

Quoted By:

On the subject of lucid dreams, what of the August Dreamwalkers in Iron? We'd talked earlier about their long running lucid dreams focused in part on imagining ghostly bulwarks and a mirror image of Betten-Burgen into the eddies of the warp but I think we'd also talked about them doing the kind of longer range astral projection Jareddm was talking about with the non-euclidian geometry for spying, recon and aiding in material combat through warp manifestations.

What are the August Ones up to? Is it pretty much their choice? Am I a butterfly, dreaming I'm a dreadnought and all that? Who commands during what fluctuating structure the lucid communal dreams share?

I kind of like the idea of the librarians' telepathy being integral to any sort of cohesive communal dream. The Nightmare minor psykers (dreamwalkers able to touch the warp) can be lucid in their own dreams easily enough, but without the guidance of a nearby sleeping librarian to Shepard them they will become lost, plunging into a nightmare of their own mind. The marines are disciplined, and their personal dream will likely soon be back under their own control, but the librarians will have to hunt for his mind again and establish a psychic connection to invite him back into the dreamlands..

Starshadow Thu 07 Jul 2011 10:03:53 No.15501576 Report

Quoted By:

That makes sense. Chaplains would be the shepherds of the awake marines. Librarians for the dreamers. And Apothecaries for the Sleepless.

That is the reason there are 300 attendant psykers who work in Betten Burgen. They help the librarians guide, manage and communicate with the sleeping marines.

Jareddm Thu 07 Jul 2011 12:33:27 No.15502071 Report

Quoted By: >>15502172

>We will have to figure out how the psykana figures into this.
This has also been explained.

During the conclave, numerous visions and tarot readings led the Scholastica Psykana towards Icelus. They new a chapter founding was taking place there and every reading implied that this chapter MUST survive. They then offered their aid to the initial Nightmares in trying to control their lucid dreaming and in the development of the Dreamcatchers.

Starshadow Thu 07 Jul 2011 13:02:33 No.15502172 Report

Quoted By: >>15502608 >>15502726

>>15502071
Whah? That sounds like DM railroading. Way too convenient.

I think it would be better for one of the dreamwalkers to have prevented a possession. There was no Psykana back then, but the planet did have psykers to act as astropaths. The astropaths and later the Hereticus put two and two together and realized that the Nightmares would be capable of shielding others from daemonic influence.

Hence if the planet was safer for psykers, it would make sense to locate an academy full of poorly trained ones on Icelus to benefit from the protection.

Wing Zero Thu 07 Jul 2011 13:43:36 No.15502390 Report

Quoted By: >>15502483 >>15502506

Dear God, where has this thread been all my life.
First time on 4chan in at least a month, and theirs a nightmare thread!

What are you working on?

Anonymous Thu 07 Jul 2011 14:03:37 No.15502483 Report

Quoted By:

>>15502390

Read the thread, see for yourself. Several topics have been covered.

Anonymous Thu 07 Jul 2011 14:07:37 No.15502506 Report

Quoted By:

>>15502390
Who the powerful organizations and individuals are on Icelus. From the salt flats to the top of hive Primus. We also made some inquisitors and clarified some of the psychic dreaming stuff.

Plot hooks and characters for Icelus-based RogueHeresyWatch are the big thing right now basically. From stats for our native fauna to descriptions of hidden Flawed Ones bunkers.

Wing Zero Thu 07 Jul 2011 14:28:43 No.15502608 Report

Quoted By:

>>15502172
Wouldn't the hereticus see the nightmares abilities as exploitable? I would think they would try to gather as much info and bring it to someone like the high lords of terra, and suggest creating more chapters from nightmares geneseed. To spread this 'shield' across a wider swath of the imperium.

Is it possible that a succesor chapter might not suffer from the same node degeneration? Or is it just as likely that they could suffer a far worse, and intolerable, mutation?

Jareddm Thu 07 Jul 2011 14:47:53 No.15502726 Report

Quoted By: >>15508782

>>15502172
Not everything had to be by inquisitorial mandate. Other adepta do have some autonomy in terms of who they offer aid.

It comes down to the creation of the dreamcatcher for me. Half a dozen psychically-inclined marines, with zero (maybe a little) experience with dreamwalking, possession through dreams, or the properties of the dreamscapes are not going to be able to develop an effective means of protection for themselves under the time limit instilled by the inquisition without a lot of help. If you want, we could say the Nightmares requested the aid from the scholastica and the astra telapathica. Perhaps only after the Nightmares had some inkling of what dreamwalking was capable of, was it seen that they could defend the local area from warp manifestations.

Anonymous Thu 07 Jul 2011 14:55:53 No.15502780 Report

Quoted By: >>15503537 >>15505152 >>15507295 >>15511877

So it's agreed: Inquisition didn't have any proof, no confirmed "incidents" of psychic powers/manifestations among the rank and file beyond the whole dreamwalking thing, and the Chapter got through by the skin of their teeth. Modern day? They're tolerated because they always have been. The original suspicion has been lost to time, and the "watchdogs" are allies as much as anything.

Jareddm Thu 07 Jul 2011 16:35:40 No.15503537 Report

Quoted By:

>>15502780
Agreed

Jareddm Thu 07 Jul 2011 19:41:45 No.15505152 Report

Quoted By: >>15505732

>>15502780
Actually, let me rephrase that.

They had proof that possession was possible, but improbable. This was what started the whole formation of the conclave to begin with. To answer the question, "Is it worth the risk to keep these marines alive?"

Anonymous Thu 07 Jul 2011 20:33:04 No.15505732 Report

Quoted By: >>15505794

>>15505152
Well, if they had proof that any Marine could be possessed, I can't see the Chapter surviving. That would make them all rogue psykers, even if they're weak ones. How about ambiguous incidents/geneseed anomalies/second-hand accounts of dreamwalking?

Jareddm Thu 07 Jul 2011 20:41:59 No.15505794 Report

Quoted By: >>15505823

>>15505732
Ability to be possessed and being a psyker aren't equivalent. Any human is prone to possession, it's just psykers are more prone. Besides, this is the whole point I've been saying about the dreamcatchers. They basically reduced the chance of possession from negligible to nothing.

Anonymous Thu 07 Jul 2011 20:44:00 No.15505823 Report

Quoted By: >>15505911

>>15505794
I mean that an individual marine has a higher than average chance of possession than a Smurf. That would set off alarm bells on a massive level.

How about we just note that there were dark rumours, that there was a conclave, and that this led to the founding of these institutions? The dreamcatchers are believed to help by the Chapter cult and the Nightmares, of course, but it's never been universally accepted by outsiders that they do.

Sidestep the whole controversy over "hurr durr PSYKERS possession GARY STU lol"?

Jareddm Thu 07 Jul 2011 20:54:56 No.15505911 Report

Quoted By: >>15505945

>>15505823
The idea behind the risk of possession was to balance out the fact that they were at one time(stupid Grey Knights) the only chapter capable of facing demons on their own turf on a regular basis. But that risk was only there when the marines were in their sleep cycles. The importance of the dreamcatcher to the chapter both spiritually and metaphysically shouldn't be underplayed when talking about this.

Anonymous Thu 07 Jul 2011 20:57:56 No.15505945 Report

Quoted By: >>15506012

>>15505911
Maybe something like if demons pass beyond an X number of defensive mechanisms, a cogitator automatically detonates thermonuclear devices buried deep within the crust of the planet, destroying everything?

With the idea in mind that if a demon would be powerful enough to penetrate X anti-demon defenses, the loss of the chapter and planet would be a minor price to pay.

After all, NO RETREAT.

Jareddm Thu 07 Jul 2011 21:04:36 No.15506012 Report

Quoted By:

>>15505945
Which is actually a PERFECT segway to what I wanted to bring up next.

The archeotech and weapon under the control of Inquisitor Mayra. As secret watchdog to the chapter, what you describe would be perfect for her to have. I was thinking either some massive atomic, wrath of the Emperor type-weapon, or a huge null field generator, capable of wiping all trace of psychic or warp presence off the planet, but only once and only for a limited amount of time.

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Anonymous Thu 07 Jul 2011 22:41:01 No.15506958 Report

Quoted By: >>15506990 >>15507295

I think some people are somewhat overestimating the Inquisition's purview in this matter. They obviously have a right to intercede and investigate for heresy (and if heresy is found, to do all sorts of other things) but fighting daemons is something space marine chapters do. Regularly. Fighting daemons is something Librarians and psykers in general do. Frequently.

The Ultramarines movie was about it for Pete's sake (Whether the movie was good or canon or whatever is irrelevant. It's still mass saturation). The point is that daemonic possession is not uncommon. It is a risk of war. You take risks in war. This lucid communal dream is the same as a group of psykers warding each other really, just in a more abstract way with aboriginal mythology influences instead of pentagrams.

Who is more "at risk" of daemonic possession? The sanctioned psyker who sits on his couch all day, doesn't use his powers, isn't in a warzone and works a desk job?

Or the one on the front lines fifty feet from a daemonic incursion fighting tooth and nail to close the rift?

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Anonymous Thu 07 Jul 2011 22:42:01 No.15506990 Report

Quoted By: >>15507295

>>15506958
Daemonic possession is an occupational hazard of 40k. Nightmare minor psykers are only at any higher risk than normal for daemonic possession because they're physically and mentally very close to lots of daemons. It's not them. It's the fucktons of hungry daemons. The Conclave was interested that most minor psykers within the Nightmare - rare though such people always are - all seemed to develop the same small telepathic bond with the veil of the warp, but almost all exhibit no further powers. As a chapter whose nemesis is a daemon and who all fight chaos and daemons often, the Nightmares took to weaving daemonic wards into their dreamcatchers, just as you or I could draw a key of Solomon on our doorstep or or paint a chicken blue and put it under our bed for a night or whatever it is you do. It's a cultural ward.

The Inquisition would take note, and watch the chapter carefully for warp influences to be SURE, but given the controls in place it is not unreasonable nor counter to fluff for psykers of a "standing force" chapter based on a world that is also a black ship hub to devote a portion of their time to defending and sheparding the psykers there. The fact that they view the warp through the lens of mythological influences is not abnormal either.

And all this is coming from someone who doesn't actually like the 'fight daemons in their dreams' angle all that much. It's not my favourite part of the chapter but it DOES make sense and fit into the greater context of both Icelus and 40k in general.

Anonymous Thu 07 Jul 2011 23:07:01 No.15507269 Report

Quoted By: >>15507310

Why 'Betten Burgen?'

Jareddm Thu 07 Jul 2011 23:10:01 No.15507295 Report

Quoted By: >>15511877

>>15506958
>>15506990
We're just going in circles now. I think we've covered this as much as is necessary. What's most important is how things are in modern times. To which I feel
>>15502780
Has nailed on the head.

Moving on to anything else:

Battles for the timeline, comments on the ones I posted.

Bit more detail for our two lovely inquisitors.

Comments or ideas for the train barons or other important characters on Icelus.

Anonymous Thu 07 Jul 2011 23:11:08 No.15507310 Report

Quoted By: >>15507337 >>15507416 >>15507453 >>15508782

>>15507269

Because some faggot thought he was being clever and now we're stuck with the Chapter fortress being named "Pillow Fortress" in German.

Anonymous Thu 07 Jul 2011 23:13:08 No.15507337 Report

Quoted By: >>15507416

>>15507310

Why are we stuck?

We can change it to whatever we want.

Anonymous Thu 07 Jul 2011 23:19:03 No.15507390 Report

Quoted By:

Look, we get rid of the "possession hurr durr" and note that the "facing on their home turf" aspect is fairly limited and leaves the marines in question completely defenseless in the real world. There's no need for a farcical weakness just to make it "balanced".

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Anonymous Thu 07 Jul 2011 23:23:03 No.15507416 Report

Quoted By: >>15507449

>>15507337
>>15507310
I kind of like it. Betten-Burgen sounds nice and regal and fancy phonetically. When you absent mindedly forget what it means it sounds like a castle covered in heraldic drapes. Also 'pillow fortress' makes me giggle. We're allowed to have one joke in our srs bzns chapter right? Keeps us humble.

Anonymous Thu 07 Jul 2011 23:27:03 No.15507449 Report

Quoted By: >>15507480 >>15507549 >>15507623

>>15507416

I guess. I'm of the opinion that the vast majority of things done for the Nightmares don't mesh together at all. I mean, I handed my Nightmares DW character to my DM and he straight up shot me down because he couldn't see anyone roleplaying a patchwork chapter and I gotta say I kind of agree.

Jareddm Thu 07 Jul 2011 23:27:03 No.15507453 Report

Quoted By:

>>15507310
Funny, my translator had it as "Giant Hotel"

Jareddm Thu 07 Jul 2011 23:30:03 No.15507480 Report

Quoted By: >>15507550

>>15507449
What exactly is patchwork? The sleepless? The Icelus dreadnoughts? The dreamwalking?

Anonymous Thu 07 Jul 2011 23:37:03 No.15507549 Report

Quoted By:

>>15507449
Interesting. Please elaborate. Our bias as contributors probably blinds us to your point of view otherwise. As far as we're concerned it all ties together surprisingly neatly.

Anonymous Thu 07 Jul 2011 23:37:03 No.15507550 Report

Quoted By: >>15507658

>>15507480

'Patchwork' might be the wrong word. I'm not sure how to describe it. Certain things just seem to lack explaination.

He asked me why no Devastators and I had no answer, the Sleepless, while cool, were a re-painted Death Company, where the dreamcatchers came from, how you have dreadnought Librarians in a system that forbids them, no solid history of service or great deeds beyond their founding, the fact that Primus and Secundus are like two completely different chapters... Problem after problem.

I love the Nightmares and the whole dreamwalking thing got me into them. It's an awesome concept I'm surprised has never been used, but there are alot of inconsistencies and blank spaces that make it hard to play one.

Plus, you have any idea how hard it is to find a cool chapter wearing purple?

Anonymous Thu 07 Jul 2011 23:44:03 No.15507623 Report

Quoted By: >>15507778

>>15507449

I'm not that guy but I also have a problem with the way there's so many special things about the chapter. I mean:

*The lack of Devastators.
*The Dreadnoughts everywhere, and the special kind of dread that no other chapter makes.
*The Sleepless.
*The dreamwalking with protecting the local warp. *The way the planet is basically adapted to serve the Chapter's needs and has been culturally saturated by it, even integrating its colors into regalia.
*The way, as previously mentioned, that this chapter has two radically different combat doctrines.

One or two of these would be fine in one chapter. But ALL of these special things in one chapter makes it seem... well, disjointed. Patchwork, as the dude said.

Anonymous Thu 07 Jul 2011 23:48:03 No.15507658 Report

Quoted By: >>15507702 >>15507789

>>15507550
Okay here goes:

>why no Devastators
They use rifleman dreadnoughts to fill that codex position. It's a minor divergence from the Codex Astartes and it's what we rolled in Rites.
>the Sleepless ... a re-painted Death Company
Yes and no. The yes was done intentionally for the sake of a quick fix of playing using the Blood Angels codex, so the rules are based off that. But in practice, in the fluff, Sleepless are nothing at all like the Death Company in mood or in action.
>where the dreamcatchers came from
Eh.
>how you have dreadnought Librarians in a system that forbids them
That's just your gamemaster being particular. The Deathwatch system might forbid them for some reason but they exist in the fluff and in the Blood Angels and Grey Knights codices.
>no solid history of service or great deeds beyond their founding
There are a few. Keep in mind they're only a two thousand year old chapter. They're quite young in 40k terms.
>the fact that Primus and Secundus are like two completely different chapters
That operate in unison and deploy together in anvil/hammer actions, ambushes, brutal assaults and so forth. There's a reason a Primus and Secundus are often selected to the Deathwatch at the same time.

Maybe that helps?

Anonymous Thu 07 Jul 2011 23:53:06 No.15507702 Report

Quoted By: >>15507798

>>15507658

I guess. I know everything was determined by the dice gods way back when, but I guess there are things I wish I could change.

Jareddm Thu 07 Jul 2011 23:56:06 No.15507733 Report

Quoted By: >>15507789

>Lack of Devastators
Fear of a heavy weapons marine falling asleep on the job. Dreadnoughts are much more reliable in their sleep patterns and so heavy weapons has been designated to them.

>Sleepless as re-painted death company
True, but it's a different spin on it. Really this was a compromise between the people who just wanted different fluff for their 'play as' Blood Angels army and those who wanted everything from scratch.

>where the dreamcatchers came from
This is what we've been arguing for the last 10 hours. I won't repeat myself, please just read the above thread.

>how you have dreadnought Librarians in a system that forbids them
FFG has confirmed there WILL be librarian dreads. They're simply making it significantly different from the normal dread, hence the restriction.

>no solid history of service or great deeds beyond their founding
We're working on it. I've posted a dozen possible battles and connections. They just need some love and care.

>The Dreadnoughts everywhere, and the special kind of dread that no other chapter makes.
A combination of factors. The sleepless techmarines were the biggest benefit to this, as is being on a hive world with the specific manufacturing capability to produce dreads, though at a slow pace.

>The way, as previously mentioned, that this chapter has two radically different combat doctrines
Duality has ALWAYS been of importance to the chapter. It is the belief that between the two tactics, any combat situation can be accounted for.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace 1310083258286.jpg, 90KiB, 590x900

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 00:00:06 No.15507778 Report

Quoted By: >>15507803

>>15507623
Well really one could make much longer lists for any of the big five chapters too. Baal predators, Death Company, Masterful Artists, Really Long Lived, Golden Armour, Wings on their Primarch, Mephiston is becoming... something. Furioso Dreadnoughts, Librarian Dreadnoughts. And that's ALL without Matt Ward's influence.

If you're actually suggesting that a chapter should only have two traits of any sort like "they are good at sneaking and stuff plus they don't use devastators" or "they have dreadnought librarians and some of their dudes have trouble sleeping" or "their homeworld honours the chapter in its heraldry plus they have master crafted dreadnoughts" I have to disagree. Fluffing out and making sense of those Rites of Battle rolls was a lot of fun. We actually didn't roll a very weird chapter. There are far, FAR more radical ones out there in the canon and on the Rites of Battle charts alone.

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 00:02:09 No.15507789 Report

Quoted By: >>15507849 >>15507869

>>15507733
>>15507658

Look, you don't need to rattle off these lists of justifications. I've read the wiki, I know the score. I just think that the fact that the chapter NEEDS this list of justifications hurts it thematically. It doesn't have the focus canon GW chapters have. The Space Wolves, Black Templars, Blood Angels et cetera all have a core central theme around which the chapter is built. The Nightmares have too many core concepts. They sleep a lot and protect the warp! No, they sleep too little and go insane! No, they become very focused and build great works of technology! No, they have psyker potential that leaves them vulnerable to posession! No, they have unmatched dreadnought creation facilities! They're afraid of heavy weapons marines falling asleep, but not Assault Marines? If they have so many dreadnoughts that they can replace Devastators, where are they getting all the dreadnoughts from? It's just too much specialness crammed into the same chapter.

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 00:04:06 No.15507798 Report

Quoted By: >>15507833

>>15507702
Me too if it makes you feel any better, but in a way that's part of it too. It's a community chapter made from dice. It's not quite what I wanted, and it's not quite what you wanted or he or she wanted, but it's pretty cool for it.

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 00:04:06 No.15507803 Report

Quoted By: >>15507886

>>15507778

>Baal predators, Death Company, Masterful Artists, Really Long Lived, Golden Armour, Wings on their Primarch, Mephiston is becoming... something. Furioso Dreadnoughts, Librarian Dreadnoughts

All of this fits around the core theme of "Vampire Angels" that the Blood Angels have.

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 00:07:07 No.15507833 Report

Quoted By:

>>15507798

Yeah. Oh well. Guess I'm gonna have to roll smething else. Thanks for your time and patience, anyway.

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 00:09:07 No.15507849 Report

Quoted By:

>>15507789
Not justifications, explanations.

read the threads. Everything you're talking about has been explained several times in detail. Space Marine chapters are not two traited nor are they two dimensional.

Jareddm Fri 08 Jul 2011 00:11:07 No.15507869 Report

Quoted By: >>15507931

>>15507789
That fact that there are these broad, sweeping generalizations made about a chapter is the reason people who come to 40k from other RPGs find marines so dull. Most of the other chapters are one trick ponies. Why do you think everyone wants to play a Blood Angel assault marine or an Ultramarine tactical? Because outside of the one thing that defines the chapter, people find them pretty boring.

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 00:14:07 No.15507886 Report

Quoted By: >>15507931

>>15507803
Baal predators? Really?

Also everything listed fits around the core theme of "Duality: duality of day and night, productive wakefulness and comatose sleep, masterful tangible works of machinery and degenerating abstract mental ability, bold, loud combat and silent, stealthy assassination"

If "Vampire Angels" is your idea of an acceptable theme, why can't "duality of night and day" be?

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 00:19:11 No.15507922 Report

Quoted By:

You could argue that the Blood Angels are actually very much wrapped in a similar duality. On one hand, they're noble, handsome, warrior angels and on the other, they're mindless, raving, bloodthirsty berserkers.

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 00:20:11 No.15507931 Report

Quoted By: >>15507970 >>15507981

>>15507869

No, it's because they have coherent themes that allow a player to construct a character according to an archetype that's easy to grasp and use. Like the vampire clans in oWoD.

And the EN don't fit together thematically. When the chapter was made, people just mashed a bunch of ideas that each person thought sounded cool together, then justifications were made in order to keep everyone's ideas instead of centering a theme and tossing out that which didn't fit.

>>15507886

>productive wakefulness and comatose sleep

They're actually productive in sleep as well, since they guard the Warp and whatnot. So that one's not really a duality.

>masterful tangible works of machinery and degenerating abstract mental ability

If they can't think abstractly, how come Sleepless techmarines are capable of producing the Icelus dreadnought and other technical marvels? Once again, not really a duality when the sleeplessness thing is "well, it drives a marine insane unless it arbitrarily doesn't for no explained reason".

>If "Vampire Angels" is your idea of an acceptable theme, why can't "duality of night and day" be?

I'm not really opposed to the theme itself, I just think it could be better defined in order to eliminate contradictions in the fluff.

I do want to note that "duality" is a bit too broad a theme. Most chapters are dual in nature. Blood Angels for instance have the angelic and vampiric duality of bloodlust and refinement.

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 00:25:10 No.15507970 Report

Quoted By:

>>15507931
It sounds like you just don't like the chapter, which is okay, but everything you describe has in fact been explained ad nauseum on the wiki and in the threads. And it really isn't that different than any other canon chapter. We could explain further but we'd be repeating ourselves from past threads and you'd question our explainations or dismiss them as justifications.

It's perfectly cool to just think we made a shitty chapter but it's not because it isn't internally consistent.

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 00:27:13 No.15507981 Report

Quoted By: >>15507999

>>15507931
>If they can't think abstractly, how come Sleepless techmarines are capable of producing the Icelus dreadnought and other technical marvels? Once again, not really a duality when the sleeplessness thing is "well, it drives a marine insane unless it arbitrarily doesn't for no explained reason".

Do you REALLY not grasp the conceptual difference between "mad scientist" and "mad bomber"? The Sleepless techmarines are well and truly insane. They're just /productive/ while insane, and have a powerful patron.

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 00:29:11 No.15507999 Report

Quoted By: >>15508025 >>15508042

>>15507981

Other Nightmares, when they go sleepless, start hallucinating that their fellow battle-brothers are Chaos marines and begin indiscriminately killing everyone. Like in that story set on a battle barge. Whereas Nightmare techmarines can IN THIS SAME COMPLETELY DELUSIONAL STATE mastercraft dreadnought chassis and even invent new ones. How does that work if they're completely detached from reality? It just doesn't fit together at all.

Jareddm Fri 08 Jul 2011 00:33:11 No.15508025 Report

Quoted By: >>15508077

>>15507999
First of all, that story was written well before the concept of sleepless techmarines was written. Are you telling me the first stories about canon chapters fit perfectly into continuity?

Furthermore, Sleeplessness isn't something you wake up with. The whole idea behind the sleepless techmarines is their work represses the symptoms that sleeplessness has on them, to a point. They will go nuts eventually and they will be locked up with the other sleepless. Their focus only lengthens the amount of time they have.

Jareddm Fri 08 Jul 2011 00:36:20 No.15508042 Report

Quoted By:

>>15507999
First of all, that story was written well before the concept of sleepless techmarines was written. Are you telling me the first stories about canon chapters fit perfectly into continuity?

Furthermore, Sleeplessness isn't something you wake up with. It's a gradual condition the longer a marine is awake. The whole idea behind the sleepless techmarines is their work represses the negative symptoms that sleeplessness has on them, to a point. They will go nuts eventually and they will be locked up with the other sleepless. Their focus only lengthens the amount of time they have.

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 00:39:20 No.15508077 Report

Quoted By: >>15508126

>>15508025

Nothing about that story has been retconned by subsequent changes. In fact, mechanically, Sleepless count as a Death Company, act like berzerkers on the battlefield and are herded about by apothecary dreadnoughts.

>The whole idea behind the sleepless techmarines is their work represses the symptoms that sleeplessness has on them, to a point. They will go nuts eventually and they will be locked up with the other sleepless

So what you're basically saying is that the "sleepless" techmarines aren't actually Sleepless. As long as they can work without their symptoms overwhelming them, they don't really deserve the moniker "Sleepless", do they? I mean, assault marines that are about to go sleepless aren't given the name and the armor change until they actually go insane. There should be no difference for techmarines.

Jareddm Fri 08 Jul 2011 00:44:16 No.15508126 Report

Quoted By: >>15508157

>>15508077
I don't know how much experience you have with chronic diseases, but I do. If an elderly individual has become significantly more forgetful, they could be diagnosed with Alzheimer's. If an elderly individual believes they are still 25 and living in 1940, they would also be diagnosed with Alzheimer's. There are levels and stages to Sleeplessness that we honestly didn't feel it was necessary to have to state so bluntly.

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 00:47:16 No.15508157 Report

Quoted By: >>15508220 >>15508258

>>15508126

Look, that's not how it works. Either a marine is officially declared Sleepless, and his armor is repainted and he's herded together with other insane berzerkers, or he's not. Otherwise, how could there be a ceremony for declaring someone Sleepless? How would they determine when to paint the armor? The symptoms may come on slow, but at some point the break from reality occurs and that's when the marine is declared Sleepless. Techmarines are no exception.

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 00:54:16 No.15508220 Report

Quoted By: >>15508244

>>15508157

Exactly. The Master of the Forge has done everything in his power to keep his techmarines from being declared Sleepless. They're functionally Sleepless, as they're no longer sleeping and they're sliding slowly into madness. But they're being squirreled away and kept busy, both as therapy and as cover, and the vagaries of the Omnissian cult used to paper over the holes.

I'm assuming that when they REALLY become dangerous, Fervesco pawns them off on the Apothecaries.

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 00:57:16 No.15508244 Report

Quoted By: >>15508333

>>15508220

If they're "functionally sleepless", then they're already raving lunatics. That's what Sleepless means. Every Nightmare marine has periods of sleep deprivation, but that doesn't mean they should be referred to as Sleepless. Not until they actually snap.

Also, keeping busy in order to stave off sleeplessness is a method used by the entire chapter. Not just the techmarines.

Jareddm Fri 08 Jul 2011 00:58:16 No.15508258 Report

Quoted By: >>15508296 >>15508343

>>15508157
Except that's not how it works.

To your previous statement, that's for the tabletop. I can not stress this enough. Generalizations are made for the tabletop because they have to be made. The way things work for the tabletop is not the way the chapter necessarily works.

Now then, sleeplessness is simple.

Marine: Hmm...my sleep cycle seems to be really late...it's been 5 months. I better get myself checked.

Apothecary: It appears your Catalepsean Node has completely broken down. you will never be able to sleep again. You are a sleepless!

Marine: Well that sucks.
(Ceremony is held. Marine's armor is painted, dreamcatcher is broken. The marine is officially a sleepless and still in complete control of his functions. He will now be assigned to the Sleepless company)

5 months later
Marine: not being able to sleep sucks, but carving these patterns into my armor really helps take the edge off.

1 year later
Marine: Have to keep carving...the patterns grow deeper with each day. We all move as one...

2 years later
Marine: Kill the heretics! Kill them! Kill them all!

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 01:02:17 No.15508296 Report

Quoted By: >>15508339

>>15508258

So basically, they assign fully functional marines to the company that's full of crazed berzerkers? How does that even work? Why would they put the sane ones among the insane ones? Why not wait until they actually go insane? It seems completely retarded.

Also, don't make shit up and pretend it was there all along. No one has elaborated on how Sleeplessness works until now.

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 01:05:17 No.15508333 Report

Quoted By:

>>15508244
>If they're "functionally sleepless", then they're already raving lunatics.

Wrong. Wrong wrong wrongedy wrong wrong wrong. The time between "last time you sleep, PERIOD" and "raving fucking lunatic that kills friend and foe alike" is variable, being as short as months and as long as... well, how long has Fervesco evaded detection?

Sleepless is a designation. A descriptor, indicating that this Marine no longer sleeps. Not how far he's degenerated.

Jareddm Fri 08 Jul 2011 01:06:17 No.15508339 Report

Quoted By: >>15508396

>>15508296
Look, you seriously aren't getting the distinction between death company and the sleepless.

The longer a marine is awake, the greater is senses and reflexes become. His restlessness increases ad infinitum. Those who have just become sleepless are already quicker and more manuverable than a normal marine. Those who have been sleepless for a long time exist in permanent states of 'bullet time'. The downside is the longer they're awake, the more they lose themselves to madness. Why do you think Theuros, our sleepless character, who has been awake for over a century, has no problem being as maneuverable as he is in terminator armor?

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 01:06:17 No.15508343 Report

Quoted By: >>15508364 >>15508376

>>15508258
Have there been any attempts to reclaim Sleepless by giving them new Catalepsean Nodes? Ones reclaimed from fallen battle-brothers, for example?

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 01:08:17 No.15508359 Report

Quoted By: >>15508376

Are there any Nightmares who went the opposite direction from the Sleepless? As in, their Catalepsean Node degraded in such a fashion that they were perpetually asleep?

Jareddm Fri 08 Jul 2011 01:08:17 No.15508364 Report

Quoted By:

>>15508343
hmm...none that have ever been mentioned. Though that's an interesting idea and certainly something I can see Eidelan trying.

Jareddm Fri 08 Jul 2011 01:10:18 No.15508376 Report

Quoted By: >>15508415

>>15508343
hmm...none that have ever been mentioned. Though that's an interesting idea and certainly something I can see Eidelan trying.

>>15508359
This was one of the first things that was brought up when the sleepless were first thought up. As a group, we had decided that the node simply doesn't function that way. Aside from the chapter master, who is a very special case, there are no permanent sleepers among the EN.

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 01:12:19 No.15508396 Report

Quoted By: >>15508443 >>15508454

>>15508339

Still doesn't explain why fully lucid marines are put in the same company as the crazed berzerkers and expected to act like crazed berzerkers on the battlefield. Surely the sensible thing to do is to have the marine fill a productive combat role for as long as possible?

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 01:14:20 No.15508415 Report

Quoted By:

>>15508376
Yeah, except fucking around with Space Marine augmentations is a big no no, and it's to the point where the process itself is near voodoo magic. Giving people new nodes seems like it'd be a really dangerous undertaking since it's noted that all the organs interact with each other.

Jareddm Fri 08 Jul 2011 01:17:22 No.15508443 Report

Quoted By:

>>15508396
This is Master of the Forge Fervesco's take on things as well. The issue with it is there's no telling when a marine will reach a state of instability. He could be in the middle of a crowd of civilians, working on a delicate and ancient relic, or even on in the middle of a stealth operation. This is the whole argument between Fervesco and Eidelan. Eidelan feels the risks simply aren't worth it and as chief apothecary, he usually is given more leeway.

That said, the one tabletop generalization that I will have to use, and no there has never been a reason stated for it, is that sleepless don't attack each other. It's not that the more lucid sleepless have to act all berserk and crazy, they're simply put in more dangerous situations because hey, they can dodge bullets.

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 01:19:22 No.15508454 Report

Quoted By: >>15508483

>>15508396

Well, TBH, that's a glaring hole. Perhaps Sleepless should be ranked by degree of degeneration, and by how much threat they pose to their own. Squad composition would be dictated by those rankings, with some simply acting as Marines with an Apothecary, and the most gone being those herded by Phobetor Dreads.

Jareddm Fri 08 Jul 2011 01:22:22 No.15508483 Report

Quoted By: >>15508545

>>15508454
They are ranked. But it's information that only the apothecaries need worry about. Just a detail we didn't feel was absolutely important to list every single stage of. The fact that some sort of scale or ranking system for the severity of sleeplessness exists is all that's important.

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 01:23:24 No.15508497 Report

Quoted By:

Have the Nightmares ever had an encounter with the Flesh Helms?

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 01:30:24 No.15508545 Report

Quoted By: >>15509195

>>15508483

And, of course, absolutely NONE of this matters for the TT units. If you want to make an ultra-fluffy list, you could have a unit painted up as Sleepless that's counts-as just about anything normal.

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 01:31:25 No.15508554 Report

Quoted By:

No. Nightmares are a serious "This could be canon" chapter. Flesh Helms...well, no one wants to get near them...

Starshadow Fri 08 Jul 2011 02:02:30 No.15508782 Report

Quoted By: >>15510279

>>15502726
But the way you describe the events makes it seem like a Dues Ex Machina. "Hey guys we tossed some cards and figured out you need dreamcatchers!"

The Psykana is an organization run by the Inquisition, it exists to train psykers into forms useful to the Imperium. It doesn't have any leadership of its own. Astropaths on the other hand are led by a High Lord on Terra.

This is why it makes more sense for the astropaths to be the ones that aid the Nightmares. The inquisition is called soon after, and then Tibalt, the other librarians and the astropaths come up with the dreamcatcher idea.

>Wouldn't the hereticus see the nightmares abilities as exploitable?
HELL YES. There are inquisitors who will use daemonhosts to exploit their abilities. Using the Nightmares is a logical step.

>>15507310
You say this like its a bad thing. :P

It looks like I'm going to have to find time for wiki-work. I already organized the codex. But there is a lot of data on the chapter that has been detailed or changed since the original plan. It needs to be updated on the front page to avoid confusion.

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 02:30:30 No.15509075 Report

Quoted By:

I don't understand why people seem to think the Nightmares fight Daemons directly in the warp. Wasn't it thought that doing such a thing would make the Nightmares too mary sue, so we compromised with the Dreamscape? A place where the warp and reality bled together weakly enough that Nightmares could fight Daemons on more even terms?

Wing Zero Fri 08 Jul 2011 02:40:35 No.15509195 Report

Quoted By: >>15511799

Reading thru what I missed, does it really matter how the sleepless work on the battlefield? The similarities with dth company was just a way to put sleepless on the field. We tried to deviate from dth company as much as possible when working on tabletop rules.

>>15508545
This man speaks wisdom.

Jareddm Fri 08 Jul 2011 04:38:32 No.15510279 Report

Quoted By:

>>15508782
Except that it's not run by the inquisition. It's a branch of the Astra Telepathica and so under that same high lord of terra. It just so happens that the inquisition gets many of its recruits from the schola progenium, but they are not under the inquisition's authority.

Like I said, we can have it be that the Nightmares put out a call for psychic knowledge and the astra telepathica, or at least some faction of such, responded. The reason why they decided to help may have been due to prophetics dreams and divinations, but the point is it was the Nightmares who asked for help first.
Also, apparently sisters of battle do serve on the black ships...huh.

Starshadow Fri 08 Jul 2011 07:48:01 No.15511799 Report

Quoted By: >>15512727

>>15509195
Yeah. Sleepless are to the Death Company what a rabid dog is to a schizophrenic man.

One will attack you because its foaming mouth crazy. The other one will attack you because he doesn't believe you are real. This is a distinction we will need to clearly detail on the wiki.

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WE Fri 08 Jul 2011 08:06:01 No.15511877 Report

Quoted By:

Back from a long day at work.

Thread got somewhat derailed. At first I was interested in the:

>>Interesting. Please elaborate. Our bias as contributors probably blinds us to your point of view otherwise. **As far as we're concerned it all ties together surprisingly neatly.**

Agreed on that one, reading the threads make all bits click. But then, just when I trough we were going somewhere:

>>All of this fits around the CORE theme of "Vampire Angels" that the Blood Angels have.

Emphasis on CORE. Pal, you see Space Marine trough the veil of "Central Point from were Everything is Dependent". Nothing wrong with that really as it is a form of Narrative, but what people here is trying to pull of, and what I think is what attract us/keep us here, is a much more varied Chapter that has more than one central aspect to it. That's hard to do but I seriously believe it is worth the effort.

TL;DR: Not everybody likes their Chapter be a One-Trick-Pony.

>>15502780
>>15507295

This. We should re-start from here.

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 11:14:30 No.15512727 Report

Quoted By: >>15516174

>>15511799

That's not really true, is it? I mean, the Death Company isn't foaming-at-the-mouth berzerkers, they relive Sanguinius' final hour. So they're also disconnected from reality.

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 14:44:13 No.15513729 Report

Quoted By: >>15513841 >>15514678 >>15514720 >>15516367

So Icelian PDFs and Arbites... they'd have to be pretty well trained in train boarding actions and... train combat.

It feels silly to say the words 'train combat' but it's really pretty badass when you think about it.

Jareddm Fri 08 Jul 2011 15:01:18 No.15513841 Report

Quoted By: >>15514678 >>15514769 >>15516367

>>15513729
I never thought about how the PDF would deal with train security. I imagined it as something the various train barons would fight against. Instead opting for their own security measures. Though I'd imaigne the PDF are trained in 'rail combat'

We've never really talked much about the arbites. They probably are only stationed around Secundus and the rails that lead into Secundus.

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 16:53:39 No.15514678 Report

Quoted By: >>15516367

>>15513729
>>15513841

Well, I imagine the PDF recruits from the Rail Baron militias, and conversely, successful PDF officers and soldiers can find work with the Rail Guilds quite easily. Also, when you think about it, combat inside a train is pretty similar to spaceship boarding actions. In both cases you're talking about fighting in tight quarters within an area where excessive heavy weapons fire can damage the integrity of the hull.

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Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 16:58:39 No.15514720 Report

Quoted By:

>>15513729

Tell me more about this 'train combat' you speak of.

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 17:04:48 No.15514769 Report

Quoted By: >>15515239

>>15513841

Speaking of which, it would be cool to field a unit of IG done up as Rail Baron militia for one of the named guilds. Aldous guards in prim and proper uniforms, Balsus' black-limbed servitor-guards maintained by greasy mechanics, Varinez-Magroth militia in their proud colors, Daloush nomad security staff in cloaks and balaclavas... Obviously this would be like Kill Team-sized squads, or even Necromunda gang-sized ones.

Jareddm Fri 08 Jul 2011 18:09:53 No.15515239 Report

Quoted By: >>15515281

>>15514769
Sounds fantastic. It certainly brings new life to the rail barons and the politics between them. Any interest in trying to work out who controls what lines? Allies and Enemies?

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 18:15:55 No.15515281 Report

Quoted By: >>15515423

>>15515239

Well, I gave some hints in the descriptions. Otherwise, I see Balsus and V-M as natural allies, as well as Aldous and Lindacr. Jaharra controls a number of important branches and intersections, and vies with Nakadah for control of Quintus' outgoing lines. Daloush has a number of lines that go out into the mountains, connecting to their mining operations, and have a direct line to Secundus' spaceport from Nod. I reckon Nod is a good hub but I'm not sure if any of the Guilds would own it completely; rather, most of them have lines that go to Nod.

Jareddm Fri 08 Jul 2011 18:36:55 No.15515423 Report

Quoted By: >>15515506 >>15515586

>>15515281
Then we should probably move Nod to the southern hemisphere as it currently sits in the middle of the northern salt flats, far away from everything.

I can see Balsus taking out a long standing loan with V-M for security teams in exchange for a cut of the profits.
I don't really see the connection for allies between Aldous and Lindacr.
Jaharra and Daloush sound like rivals for passage across the equitorial mountains, perhaps even with Jaharra striking deals with the mountain nomads. Jaharra supplies them with guns and supplies, they strike against Daloush's mining. Jaharra gets a nice smooth rail line through the mountains, nomads get left alone.

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 18:44:55 No.15515506 Report

Quoted By: >>15515557

>>15515423

>I don't really see the connection for allies between Aldous and Lindacr.

Well, they're both upperhive nobles of the old stock. So it's a kinship of sorts.

Jareddm Fri 08 Jul 2011 18:49:55 No.15515557 Report

Quoted By:

>>15515506
Ah, I see now. That's cool.

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 18:52:55 No.15515586 Report

Quoted By: >>15515615 >>15515665

>>15515423
>it currently sits in the middle of the northern salt flats, far away from everything

That's part of the point though isn't it? Nod is an escape destination. A tourist attraction. A place where nobles build their summer homes.

I always pictured it being traveled to by air more often than by land.

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 18:55:55 No.15515615 Report

Quoted By: >>15515665 >>15515679

>>15515586

That wasn't what I had in mind when I expanded the Nod fluff. I always had it as a waystation where nomads could bring their wares to trade with hivers, since nomads aren't allowed inside the hives. A huge trading bazaar, marketplace and rail intersection. But it's fine, we can have another waystation doing that.

Jareddm Fri 08 Jul 2011 19:02:55 No.15515665 Report

Quoted By:

>>15515586
>>15515615
We can leave Nod the way it is.
There's that unlisted waystation smack in the middle of the southern saltflats. We could use that for the rail baron's purposes.

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 19:04:55 No.15515679 Report

Quoted By: >>15515730

>>15515615
All waystations are like that to one degree or another.

Nod was never not a vacation spot, since that's why it was put up there in the first place, but it has also never explicitly NOT been a marketplace too. It can easily be both (and should be).

There would be some rail lines. There are /some/ rail lines everywhere on Icelus. Even lost tracks going up to polar areas. It's only the ones that are like 500 years old and have ten parallel tracks or multiple levels of track that even show up on maps though. Most things north of the mountain range are reached by wheeled trains and nobles usually fly to Nod. Few have that luxury mind you.

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 19:09:43 No.15515730 Report

Quoted By:

>>15515679

Yeah, I do like the vacation homes and noble estates idea. With private docking facilities for aircraft. Nod really needs to play a role in a campaign for DH or Ascension.

Starshadow Fri 08 Jul 2011 19:49:59 No.15516174 Report

Quoted By: >>15516266 >>15516332

>>15512727
I used to know exactly how this worked but I haven't read the older BA codexes in a long time. Here is a quote from the Lexicanum:

>When a Space Marine is overcome by the Black Rage he is reborn in a world of anger, hatred, fury and nothing else.

Basically, a death company marine will believe he is Sanguinius at the moment where Horus kills him. When they discover this they are put into the death company where they fight like berserkers and try to die in an honourable fashion. If they don't, then the condition worsens until the marine really does turn into little more than a rabid animal.

A Sleepless marine experiences something different. The Nightmares have heightened senses and reflexes compared to normal marines. This effect increases the longer he remains awake. When a marine sleeps his senses relax and return to "normal".

When a marine becomes sleepless this can no longer happen. His senses become more and more powerful, stretching on into infinity. Modern science believes that sleep and dreams are the times that the brain uses to organize memories. So to be sleepless is to suffer from acute sensory overload, combined with impaired long and short term memory due to the lack of sleep.

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 19:57:00 No.15516266 Report

Quoted By: >>15516332 >>15516408

>>15516174

>So to be sleepless is to suffer from acute sensory overload, combined with impaired long and short term memory due to the lack of sleep.

Could you clarify how a techmarine could work in such a state?

Jareddm Fri 08 Jul 2011 20:02:00 No.15516332 Report

Quoted By: >>15516382 >>15516408

>>15516174
Exactly. Though technically it would be chronic sensory overload.

>>15516266
Putting together immensely detailed circuitry and other extremely fine degrees of manipulation offer focus to the marine, acting as a tool to help block out other sensations.

Think about the classic video game enthusiaist, who could go hours on end without sleep. It's engrossment in their work.

Starshadow Fri 08 Jul 2011 20:06:00 No.15516367 Report

Quoted By:

>>15513841
I think we agreed that the PDF maintain outposts in the desert and they guard the entrances to the main train tunnel arteries. But they don't actually guard the trains themselves. Not much will stop a cargo train, each car is heavily armoured and sealed against theft, tampering or stowaways. Plus most of the cargo lines are entirely underground, breaking into one will set off alarms and that WILL get the guard into action.

The official Arbites operate mostly in Hive Secundus, acting as the border police and customs for people arriving to Icelus. Their main concern is seeing that shipments of supplies from the hive forges make it out. Actual police work is overseen by the Arbites, but they rarely move into action themselves unless the shit hits the fan.

>>15513729
>>15514678
Icelus trains are much MUCH bigger than the earth equivalents. The tracks are oversized in order to bear the increased weight. Not much will damage them short of an orbital strike.

All of them are effectively heavily armoured because of how strong they are constructed. There is little danger of shooting through a wall and damaging something important to the train, unless you are fighting in the engine car.

A fight between two parallel moving trains would be like an infantry battle fought between the opposing decks of two small aircraft carriers.

There are a bunch of different types, I can't remember what thread the info is in though. I will have to look for it.

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 20:08:00 No.15516382 Report

Quoted By: >>15516447 >>15516494

>>15516332

Focus can't do anything against cognitive impairment. Even if they are engrossed in their work, if their short-term memory is affected they won't perform as well as before.

Starshadow Fri 08 Jul 2011 20:12:04 No.15516408 Report

Quoted By:

>>15516266
>>15516332
Correct, the Sleepless tend to do repetitive tasks or tasks that require intense concentration. When they focus on something that uses only one or two senses like sight or touch, they can block out the input from all other senses.

The rest of the chapter is constantly finding things for them to do. That is one reason why games of skill and sleigh of hand are so popular. This is also why the sleepless tend to decorate their armour with detailed carvings. They will go back and rework more and more detail until they evolve into insane fractal patterns.

A sleepless techmarine can always lose himself in the workings of machines. As long as he has something to craft or fix he can function normally. But he still suffers from the same chronic disorder and is just as dangerous.

Jareddm Fri 08 Jul 2011 20:17:03 No.15516447 Report

Quoted By:

>>15516382
Short-term memory loss might not have been the proper term. They can still function, they're simply acting more on instinct than conscious thought.

Starshadow Fri 08 Jul 2011 20:22:03 No.15516494 Report

Quoted By: >>15516548

>>15516382
Its not that short and long term memory stops functioning completely. You know how when you dream at night, you wake up in the morning and instantly forget what it was about?

Being a sleepless is like that, only all the time. You can generally remember things. But they get drowned out by irrelevant details. You might meet someone one day and only remember the 21 shades of brown in his hair, not their name or face.

Over long periods of time it gets even worse because you can't remember if things really happened. Imagine how you would experience life if your brain sometimes swapped yesterday's memories with the dream you had last night. Your perception of reality would become warped because facts become misplaced or are replaced by hallucinations.

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 20:27:08 No.15516548 Report

Quoted By: >>15516616

>>15516494
>Your perception of reality would become warped because facts become misplaced or are replaced by hallucinations.

Again, how do you work with complicated equipment under this condition?

Starshadow Fri 08 Jul 2011 20:35:08 No.15516616 Report

Quoted By: >>15516639

>>15516548
When you train yourself to do a task, after a while it simply becomes ingrained, reflexive. You can perform it without conscious thought.

People drink and drive all the time right? Blurred vision, loss of motor control, neither of those will stop you from putting the key into the ignition and shifting gears from park to drive. Your body simply understands that you want to drive and it goes through the motions automatically.

If you tried to TEACH a drunk person how to drive a car, it would be completely different. And they likely wouldn't remember the lesson the next day.

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 20:37:08 No.15516639 Report

Quoted By: >>15516706 >>15516906

>>15516616

Sure, but a person driving while drunk or cognitively impaired in some other capacity will be a worse driver. His focus will suffer, he will be more likely to have an accident, he will simply perform worse. The issue I have is that Sleepless techmarines are described as doing a BETTER job at their task than a healthy one. Given what we've established about Sleeplessness, it just doesn't make any sense.

Jareddm Fri 08 Jul 2011 20:45:08 No.15516706 Report

Quoted By: >>15516789

>>15516639
I can say from experience that when I'm doing a physical activity, the more I'm thinking about it consciously, the worse I'll do. Going completely off muscle memory, I could strike the same spot on a ping-pong table 10 times in a row. But if I try to consciously aim a shot beforehand, I won't come close to hitting it.

Plus, sleepless techmarines never have to rest. It means nothing to them to spend hours working on the exact same part, doing it over and over again until it's to a perfection that only they can see.

The whole carving of intricate patterns on armor. It's more than just normal marines don't do it, normal marines can't do it. They don't have the perception or hand eye coordination to see that level of detail. It's those skills that the techmarine is putting to use in their manufacturing.

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 20:51:17 No.15516789 Report

Quoted By: >>15516849

>>15516706

Get drunk and play ping pong. Or play it after two days of sleep deprivation. Even though you'll probably be thinking about what you're doing less than ususal, you'll also perform worse since your short-term memory will be impaired.

You can't have it both ways. Either Sleeplessness means hallucinations, impaired working memory, and delusions or it leads to improved focus and concentration. What good is improved hand-eye coordination when you're hallucinating anyway?

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 20:56:17 No.15516849 Report

Quoted By:

>>15516789
>What good is improved hand-eye coordination when you're hallucinating anyway?

A few years ago I was suffering from quite a severe case of sleep deprivation.

I took my modeling knife and began popping a few pimples on my chest.

When I finally woke up after like 30 hours of sleep, I realised I didn't have pimples at all. Just a shitload of superfacial cuts.

Jareddm Fri 08 Jul 2011 20:58:17 No.15516879 Report

Quoted By:

>Get drunk and play ping pong.

What do you think I was talking about ;)

>You can't have it both ways.

And why not? As has been argued before, there are stages to sleeplessness. Early on, the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. Improved sensory input and coordination. As time progresses, things like hallucinations and loss of comprehension kick in, but until they do, the marine is still going to be growing more restless, getting improved perception and coordination. The trick to the techmarines is guesses when that point of inflection occurs.

Starshadow Fri 08 Jul 2011 21:00:17 No.15516906 Report

Quoted By: >>15518024

>>15516639
Its not that a marine will lose track of reality completely. It that he becomes unable to properly interpret the vision of reality that he perceives. Sleepless are NOT forgetful and don't see hallucinations everywhere. They just can't properly determine which memories are real. Things like skills are not affected.

"Do I know how to field strip a heavy bolter?" Is not the same question as "Do I think that marine is an Alpha Legion spy?"

Starshadow Fri 08 Jul 2011 21:09:17 No.15517011 Report

Quoted By: >>15518808

Grats on the week old thread btw. I'll make a new one tomorrow, we are nearing the limit.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace 1310165822672.jpg, 14KiB, 93x93

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 22:57:36 No.15518024 Report

Quoted By: >>15518034

>>15516906
Obligatory "HE'S A SPYYYYYYYY"

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace heres_pyro.jpg, 276KiB, 1440x900

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 22:58:01 No.15518034 Report

Quoted By:

>>15518024
Did someone say spy?

Anonymous Sat 09 Jul 2011 00:32:56 No.15518808 Report

Quoted By: >>15518822

>>15517011
Sounds good. Also, is this thread archived?

Jareddm Sat 09 Jul 2011 00:33:49 No.15518822 Report

Quoted By: >>15518904 >>15518949

>>15518808
I don't think it is. Could someone get on that. Not sure how to do it myself.

Starshadow Sat 09 Jul 2011 00:42:49 No.15518904 Report

Quoted By:

>>15518822
Way ahead of ya. I did it earlier when I realized the thread was a week old. Again.

Anonymous Sat 09 Jul 2011 00:49:50 No.15518949 Report

Quoted By: >>15521622

>>15518822
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html
Looks like someone beat us to it

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace 1310191340324.png, 303KiB, 1100x950

WE Sat 09 Jul 2011 06:02:43 No.15521622 Report

Quoted By:

>>15518949

Good, every thread has something to it.

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