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Relics of the Emperor's Nightmares

OP Tue 03 Jan 06:59:17 2012 No.17407058 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>17421049 >>17455189 >>17455322 >>17455525 >>17473172 >>17489526 >>17502144 >>17502279 >>17503751

Greetings /tg/! I'm looking for a bit of help, and with all the Rites of Battle rolling going on today it seemed like a good time.

See, I've recently started to play a Nightmare in a game of Deathwatch, and while we covered most of the bases way back when, there are no Nightmare-specific Relics. I think there should be at least one, maybe more since fluff seems to say the Nightmares have a strong connection with the Deathwatch.

Tl;dr Deathwatch Emperor's Nightmare Relic brainstorming thread

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OP Tue 03 Jan 2012 07:05:17 No.17407128 Report

Quoted By:

For weapons or armor something constructed by Sleepless Techmarines seems a decent idea; on the other hand, something wielded by a Nightmare who became Sleepless while in the Deathwatch might be interesting.

Jareddm Tue 03 Jan 2012 07:19:01 No.17407257 Report

Quoted By: >>17407374

Sounds like a great idea. Let's see.

Something created by a Sleepless Techmarine would be incredibly precise or intricate. Perhaps some sort of advanced auspex?

As for a marine who became sleepless, chainsword's the best way to go. Something that's been carved up with the intricate and manic patterns the sleepless etch in order to stave off symptoms.

Jareddm Tue 03 Jan 2012 07:22:01 No.17407305 Report

Quoted By:

Or maybe several vials of the hyper powerful sedative the Phobetor Dreadnoughts use to control the sleepless?

Though that may just be standard equipment instead of a relic-level.

Jareddm Tue 03 Jan 2012 07:25:02 No.17407324 Report

Quoted By: >>17407523

What about armor that a former Nightkin wore? Some extra special scout armor?

Or maybe several vials of the hyper powerful sedative the Phobetor Dreadnoughts use to control the sleepless?

Though that may just be standard equipment instead of a relic-level.

OP Tue 03 Jan 2012 07:30:02 No.17407374 Report

Quoted By:

>>17407257
Aha, staving off symptoms, there's an idea. Some slight bonuses to WS and damage, sure, but the carving's a bonus to Willpower tests. +10, I would think?

Jareddm Tue 03 Jan 2012 07:36:02 No.17407449 Report

Quoted By:

I don't really know much about game balance unfortunately. It sounds good.

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OP Tue 03 Jan 2012 07:42:02 No.17407523 Report

Quoted By:

>>17407324
On the Phobetor idea, I can't recall there being many if any Apothecary Relics. Perhaps the Relic could be a narthecium glaive scaled down for Marine use, complete with said sedatives. Thoughts?

Jareddm Tue 03 Jan 2012 07:45:02 No.17407555 Report

Quoted By: >>17407601

It seems a little odd for something that big to be given to the deathwatch. I didn't think anyone but the dreadnoughts would have them, and I doubt an actual Phobetor would be sent to the deathwatch.

OP Tue 03 Jan 2012 07:49:01 No.17407601 Report

Quoted By:

>>17407555
Yeah, there are only a handful of the Phobetors in the first place. Solid point.

OP Tue 03 Jan 2012 08:35:01 No.17407957 Report

Quoted By:

I'll try a write-up and story for the Sleepless chainsword later, and see what I can do with some of the other ideas.

Bump for more suggestions from the hivemind?

Starshadow Tue 03 Jan 2012 12:11:01 No.17409727 Report

Quoted By:

How did I miss this?!

Having a relic Narthecium Glaive would be pretty neat. The marine apothecaries get them too, not just the Phobetors. I can easily see one being passed down through many apothecaries and reaching relic status from being fine tuned by so many hands.

Other than the Sleepless chainsword you mentioned. How about a relic sniper rifle or stalker bolter, and a power axe or thunder hammer? Primus and Secundus favour different weapons so it would make sense to have one of thier favoured weapons as a relic.

I'll be around tomorrow if this thread is still up.

Starshadow Tue 03 Jan 2012 13:57:02 No.17410537 Report

Quoted By:

Oh and I forgot to mention. Perhaps a piece of relic armour? A beaky helmet that improves shooting accuracy would be neat.

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ComfyCushion Tue 03 Jan 2012 13:58:02 No.17410541 Report

Quoted By: >>17411628 >>17415394

Sleepless chainsword, anyone? I'm writing up a bit of fluff for it. We'll see who's background is more awesome.

Jareddm Tue 03 Jan 2012 18:49:02 No.17411628 Report

Quoted By:

>>17410541
Now that's awesome. Thanks for the image.

anonymous Tue 03 Jan 2012 19:57:02 No.17412106 Report

Quoted By: >>17412410

how about a truename chainsword?

Jareddm Tue 03 Jan 2012 20:36:02 No.17412410 Report

Quoted By: >>17421010

>>17412106
How's true naming related to the EN?

Starshadow Wed 04 Jan 2012 03:46:28 No.17415394 Report

Quoted By: >>17416928 >>17418068

>>17410541
How about this then. The chainsword started life as a normal sword passed down through many hands.just like any other piece of equipment. Over time so many owners tweaked, repaired and optimized it that it ran perfectly and was considered a minor artifact.

And then it finally came into the possession of a marine (now nameless) who used it in many a campaign. Over time he realized that he was at the onset of sleeplessness and began to carve his weapon. This is something marines usually don't do. Armour is considered more personal and rarely returns to the armoury before a marine's death in battle. But guns and melee weapons may exchange hands multiple times in a campaign, or even a single battle.

Every now and then a marine will become particularly attached to a single weapon and personalize its function. (this is very common with sniper rifles) The sword remained in the marines possession until his death as a Sleepless an. Upon its return to the armory the techmarines discovered that the chainswords teeth had been covered in bewilderingly complex carvings. The carvings extended over each and every tooth to the point that they were even sharper and covered in micro-serrations.

Starshadow Wed 04 Jan 2012 06:36:03 No.17416928 Report

Quoted By:

>>17415394
Its been a while since I read the Deatwatch book. Just how many relics would there be from a single chapter? With the chainsword we would have one from the Sleepless. I think it would be fun to have one from Primus and Secundus. Perhaps a sniper rifle and a thunder hammer.

With the chapters love of dreadnaughts. A dreadnought relic would be pretty unique.

Jareddm Wed 04 Jan 2012 08:59:02 No.17418068 Report

Quoted By: >>17419673

>>17415394
I don't see why it needs to have been upgraded and improved before the Sleepless gets to it. Why can't it just be his markings and carvings that made it special?

The issue with having a dreadnought relic is dreadnoughts don't get sent to the deathwatch. Marines who are in the deathwatch and decide to stay are the ones who get dreadnoughts. So the fact that our chapter has a lot of chassis doesn't really matter for the marines sent to the deathwatch.

Starshadow Wed 04 Jan 2012 12:55:02 No.17419673 Report

Quoted By: >>17421109

>>17418068
You can cut out the upgrade part if you want. That was just included to give the weapon some flavour. Almost all space marine weapons could be considered artifacts, having been in service for centuries. Its very rare for anything other than a box of ammo to be added to the armoury because things are rarely lost and always passed down to younger hands.

For the dreadnaught. Why not have the relic be a set of stealth upgrades? Stummers, active camo cloaking and such. Deathwatch dreads were the inspiration for the Icelus Pattern IIRC, and they are also where they got the tech used to make them. Among the Nightmares this is fairly common stuff. All Secundus dreads have them, not just the Icelus ones.

It makes sense in context. Secundus uberscout joins the deathwatch. Eventually falls in battle and nearly dies. They put him in a dreadnaught to preserve his wisdom and skill, but he still misses being sneaky. The obvious solution is for the Nightmares to grant the Deathwatch one dread stealth suite. Among the deathwatch it would be pretty unique and considered a special relic. And given the good relationship between the two parties, I'm sure they would see fit to grant a request like this.

anonymous Wed 04 Jan 2012 17:47:02 No.17421010 Report

Quoted By: >>17421060

>>17412410
well... ok, got me there. but i figured that some sleepless had knowlege about demonology and later (when he became sleepless) became obsesed with it.

anonymous Wed 04 Jan 2012 17:53:10 No.17421049 Report

Quoted By: >>17422110

>>17407058
so how about them night owls? the first company comprised of marines originally hailing from either battlegroup?

Starshadow Wed 04 Jan 2012 17:54:03 No.17421060 Report

Quoted By:

>>17421010
Well I suppose even Librarians turn Sleepless and they are one of the chapter's best defenses.

Not sure how the true naming figures into it though. Demon posessed weapons are obviously a big no.

Starshadow Wed 04 Jan 2012 18:04:15 No.17421109 Report

Quoted By:

>>17419673
>For the dreadnaught. Why not have the relic be a set of stealth upgrades?

Wait a minute, I just herped pretty hard. The dreadnought relic given to the Deathwatch by the Nightmares is obviously an Icelus Pattern. While they do have access to the plans, the Inquisition only has one chassis actually built by the hands of sleepless techmarines. It was given as a gift to the Inquisition for the use of a Secundus uberscout who was ressurected as a Dreadnought and wanted to get his stealth on. It has remained in Deathwatch service ever since.

Starshadow Wed 04 Jan 2012 21:31:02 No.17421982 Report

Quoted By: >>17422110

It occured to me that its been so long since we had an Nightmare discussion thread that a lot of people won't know about the chapter and how they were formed. For the newcomers, I would start here:

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Emperor%27s_Nightmare

You can find archive links at the bottom of the wiki page.

Now for the relics, from the sound of it we have a chainsword and a stealthnought frame. I also want to include a Primus and Secundus relic. The question is how to make these weapons truly unique. Being super effective and mastercrafted is ideal, but certainly not mandatory if they have some other useful benefit.

The obvious choice would be a sniper rifle and a thunder hammer. Both of those embody Primus and Secundus doctrine quite well. But for that reason I think we should go with something a little less common. Like a plasma pistol, Coruvus helmet, or a black bladed Powerknife.

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Jareddm Wed 04 Jan 2012 21:53:01 No.17422110 Report

Quoted By: >>17425263

>>17421049
That can be managed with the first company veteran background in deathwatch. As for fluff for them, they're under the command of The Wake as a whole, but are pretty much always spread across the two battlegroups. They have coal black armor, much like the hammers of dorn.

Actually...I have an idea. Instead of changing the color to black, which is something that was kinda only weakly decided on, perhaps the hourglass gets painted black? In the same way the sleepless have it painted white? I'm the last person to suggest changes to fluff this late in the game, but the Nightowls haven't gotten nearly as much attention as the others. Plus it always felt a little odd having a third color scheme.

>>17421982
There's already a couple of plasma pistols and corvus helmet relics. The knife is an interesting idea though...

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anonymous Thu 05 Jan 2012 04:07:26 No.17425263 Report

Quoted By: >>17425558

>>17422110
>They have coal black armor.

but isnt that the nightkins armour anyway?

>perhaps the hourglass gets painted black?

ok, but what about the rest of the armour? since they embody both the battlegroups ther armor must somehow reflect this. And while we are on that subject, the crush should reflect their mastery of both combat doctrins.

Jareddm Thu 05 Jan 2012 04:44:02 No.17425558 Report

Quoted By: >>17427801

>>17425263
Nightkin have normal Secundus colors. It's the fact that they're usually in some form of scout armor with smaller or removed pauldrons that distinguishes them.

The rest of the armor would remain the color that it was before they joined 1st company. Maybe with the black markings in the same way the sleepless have white markings?
Once again, just suggestions. I'm more than happy to keep them as solid black.

>the crush should reflect their mastery of both combat doctrins.
I'm sorry I don't know what you're referring to.

Cool picture by the way.

Jareddm Thu 05 Jan 2012 06:36:01 No.17426825 Report

Quoted By:

bump

Starshadow Thu 05 Jan 2012 08:14:01 No.17427801 Report

Quoted By: >>17427880

>>17425558
IIRC the Night Owls were actually grey. That is one bit of fluff we didn't work on a whole lot, other than the basic framework. I like the black hourglass idea. Makes for a nice contrast and very subtle.

I think you may be confusing them with the Honour Guard. The honour guards all wear terminator armour and they have black armour with gold trim. Since they are supposed to embody the best of the chapter some of the helmets are shaped to look like owl heads and the armour is painted with a subtle feather pattern.

Jareddm Thu 05 Jan 2012 08:25:02 No.17427880 Report

Quoted By: >>17428130

>>17427801
Right, I remember the grey scheme. I had simply figured that the honor guard were just the suits of terminator armor assigned to first company, seeing as how both the 1st company and the honor guard are under the command of the Wake. I just thought the black armor idea we had for the honor guard extended to all of 1st company.

That said, I like the idea of keeping only the terminators black ie. the honor guard, based on your idea that those were the original Raven Guard colors, hence the feathered pattern, and that the Nightowls would keep their original company colors with the black accents.

Starshadow Thu 05 Jan 2012 08:53:02 No.17428130 Report

Quoted By: >>17428372

>>17427880
Sounds good. Its a chapter all about duality right? So Sleepless and the Night Owls would retain whatever armour colouring they had when they were inducted. And then they go and paint black or white trim.

And yeah, one thing we rolled for was Honour The Ancestors. So the Honour Guard are meant to embody the best of the chapter and also the connection to the Raven Guards and their heroes as well.

Jareddm Thu 05 Jan 2012 09:25:02 No.17428372 Report

Quoted By:

>>17428130
Wiki's been updated. Between Honour the Ancestors and Pride in Colours, I think we've done a good job.

Starshadow Thu 05 Jan 2012 11:03:01 No.17429156 Report

Quoted By: >>17429211

Awesome. One I finish up Memory Lane 2011. I want to start up the Nightmare discussion threads again. I think we have had enough of a break.

Anonymous Thu 05 Jan 2012 11:10:01 No.17429211 Report

Quoted By: >>17429279

>>17429156

I think one of the complaints people had about the EN is the excess of fluff that we've already got behind the chapter. If discussion was more tweaking of the actual crunch rules behind the tabletop or Deathwatch stats, that'd be better.

Starshadow Thu 05 Jan 2012 11:21:02 No.17429279 Report

Quoted By: >>17446224

>>17429211
Well the crunch got to the point where it couldn't progress any further without actual playtesting. I know a few people have played Nightmare characters in Deathwatch and I'm sure they ave some stories to tell.

I'd love to continue with fluffing out Icelus as well. The reason we keep coming back to fluff about the chapter is that they are integral part of the fiction. Icelus shaped the Nightmares into what they are "today". And they have also heavily influenced the culture and day to day life of the planet in return.

I also really really want to run Icelus Quest someday.

Starshadow Thu 05 Jan 2012 14:33:01 No.17430426 Report

Quoted By:

When I get some time I will do a little work on the wiki page. Hope to get this going again within the month.

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ComfyCushion Thu 05 Jan 2012 14:51:02 No.17430536 Report

Quoted By: >>17433053

I did this a while back. Reduced the size of the shoulder pads to make a Secundus armor. What do ya'll think?

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anonymous Thu 05 Jan 2012 21:05:04 No.17432112 Report

Quoted By:

bump

Starshadow Thu 05 Jan 2012 23:47:01 No.17433053 Report

Quoted By: >>17433126 >>17435613 >>17446224 >>17454979

>>17430536
Looks neat. In fact if you take a normal plastic marine miniature and just remove the shoulderpads. They end up looking rather like scouts because the shoulder under-armour is a lot smaller. Someone posted a picture of converted Sternguard and we decided to make the look canon for the Nightkin. Since they are all about stealth they very rarely get into a straight up firefight, so to them having the big bulky pauldrons is a hinderance. Without them you have much better freedom of arm movement and it helps when using stuff like sniper rifles and ganking xenos with a powerknife.

You can see the pic here, unfortunately I never saved it and suptg didn't archive the picture properly. Hopefully someone else can repost it.
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/14541731/#14545955

Anonymous Thu 05 Jan 2012 23:59:01 No.17433126 Report

Quoted By: >>17433347 >>17435155

>>17433053
Space Marines already have I 4 even with the shoulderpads.

You want I 5 4+ Eldar with Bolters?

What the fuck is this shit? Is this what the Emp's Nightmares have become?

Eldar with bolters? FUCK NO!

I didn't miss days of sleep when we were imagining this shit only to have it sludge down to powergamer faggot shit.

Starshadow Fri 06 Jan 2012 00:30:03 No.17433347 Report

Quoted By:

>>17433126
Huh? Nightkin ditching the shoulderpads is just cosmetic for tabletop purposes.

Not sure what your beef is. Although we DID have the Sleepless hitting simultaneously with Incubi at one point. D: But don't worry we fixed that.

Anonymous Fri 06 Jan 2012 03:43:01 No.17435155 Report

Quoted By:

>>17433126
Where are you seeing I 5 on the Nightkin?

Jareddm Fri 06 Jan 2012 04:31:01 No.17435613 Report

Quoted By:

>>17433053
When it comes to the Nightkin, I just tell people that they're wearing scout armor or some form of advanced scout armor.. It's simply easier to explain. Though I agree with the pauldron-less look.

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ComfyCushion Fri 06 Jan 2012 05:18:04 No.17436050 Report

Quoted By: >>17436741

I've been inspired to model the Icelus dread. Might even get it printed out an paint it up when I'm done with it.

Almost done with the legs.

Jareddm Fri 06 Jan 2012 06:22:04 No.17436741 Report

Quoted By: >>17437362

>>17436050
You have my complete emotional and moral support. Such an act shall be remembered in the great halls of Betten-Burgen. Your dreamcatcher shall hang next to the finest of the chapter's heroes.

btw, Starshadow. I found your old descriptions of the company heraldry and am currently on the look out for an artist to paint up at least a few of them.

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Anonymous Fri 06 Jan 2012 06:26:03 No.17436776 Report

Quoted By: >>17436807

Relics you say?

Jareddm Fri 06 Jan 2012 06:29:02 No.17436807 Report

Quoted By:

>>17436776
Ah, brother!

Still enjoying that suit of terminator armor we "gifted" to you...while we were asleep?

Starshadow Fri 06 Jan 2012 07:23:03 No.17437362 Report

Quoted By:

>>17436741
Let me see of I can dig them up for old times sake.

Starshadow Fri 06 Jan 2012 09:37:02 No.17438682 Report

Quoted By:

I remember now that someone was actually working on the 5th company banner, wonder if he is still around?

http://archive.foolz.us/tg/thread/14554655/#14559585

Collecting existing company fluff...

Starshadow Fri 06 Jan 2012 09:53:03 No.17438851 Report

Quoted By: >>17440004

This is what we had when we left off. Apart from the force organization chart none of this is listed on the wiki. I was a lot more specific on some of the banner descriptions and on others I just described the main feature. The way I imagined the titles given to each Captain is that some of them are inherited and have been company tradition for centuries like Claw of the Dusk. And some of them like "Watcher of Watchers" are given to captains in recognition of some great feat.

Captain Taheton Hector, The Red Dawn
2nd Company: Solar Prominence
>"Here comes the dawn, upon wings of fire."
Drop pod specialists. Company banner is a shower of falling stars set above a sunrise.

Captain Arakanden Varykai, The Hammersmith
3rd Company: His Radiant Fist
>"We are the anvil that shall forge your destruction"
Armoured assault and siege specialists. Company banner is a golden fist inverted, falling upon a silver anvil riven with cracks.

Delannas Koza, Spirit of Fire
4th Company: Seekers of the Flame
> "Stun. Strike. Burn."
Fast attack specialist, makes heavy use of bikes, speeders and assault marines. Company banner is a skull wearing a crown of vertical flaming swords.

While I really like the first two, I think the banner for 4th company could use some work.

The Outlander Fri 06 Jan 2012 09:56:03 No.17438883 Report

Quoted By: >>17438990

The Galactic Partridges made the Emperor's Nightmares.

Starshadow Fri 06 Jan 2012 10:07:03 No.17438990 Report

Quoted By: >>17439027

>>17438883
>Nightmares
>not Nightmare
Partridges I am disappoint.

The Outlander Fri 06 Jan 2012 10:10:03 No.17439027 Report

Quoted By: >>17439164

>>17438990
>Relics of the Emperor's Nightmares OP

Starshadow Fri 06 Jan 2012 10:22:03 No.17439164 Report

Quoted By: >>17440004

>>17439027
>He actually says it both ways.
>OP I am disappoint.

Kaysr Rhillunon, The Morningstar
5th Company: Dawn Blades
>"By His radiance blinded. By our blades divided"
The most "vanilla" of Primus companies and thus the most adaptable. Very often deployed in conjunction with 9th Company.

For 5th company I'm not entirely happy with the battle cry. I kind of hackjob'd it because I was in a hurry and never went back to make something new. It could use some modification. "Dawn Blades" is supposed to form the dagger part of "cloak and dagger".

They were originally called "The Hundred Blades", as one anon pointed out this was me playing off an old adage. "A dagger in the night is worth a hundred swords at dawn". Well if you don't HAVE a dagger in the night, a hundred blades at dawn also works right? In reflection I'm not sure which one fits the theme better.

Jareddm Fri 06 Jan 2012 11:49:03 No.17440004 Report

Quoted By: >>17440591

>>17439164
>>17438851
The ones I only had issues with were the 8th and 9th company ones. The 8th because I felt the design of the banner would predate the discovery of the Icelus dreads, and the 9th because it pigeonholes them as just being the helper company for the others.

Was the 5th company still supposed to be the field of 100 blades?

What about if 4th company was simply a crown of swords surrounding a flame in the center?

I also liked the idea that some of the titles are passed on and others are personal.

Starshadow Fri 06 Jan 2012 12:56:03 No.17440591 Report

Quoted By:

>>17440004
Now that you mention it we did kind of shaft the 5th and 9th companies into being the support cast. I can think of a better explanation though. Normally a Codex chapter would have tactical, assault, devastator and reserve companies.

In the Nightmares we don't actually do this. We have two battlegroups which favour different doctrine. And within each battlegroup is separate companies who specialize towards a certain tactic. The 4th company of each battlegroup doesn't have a stated specialty. So we could consider the two of them the reserve companies of the chapter.

Because of their role they would be the two companies deployed the most often. But only rarely would the entire company deploy, led by its captain. Instead squads would be seconded to other companies to fill in gaps. Most importantly, marines who have just graduated from being scouts would find a place here. Ensuring that they get a balanced education before settling into one of the line companies. As well I think it would be reasonable that the other companies draw their vehicle pilots from the reserve companies. (except for 3rd company with its expert tank crews)

Starshadow Fri 06 Jan 2012 14:04:03 No.17441025 Report

Quoted By:

>"We are the anvil that shall forge your destruction"
Oops, that is the old version of the company battle cry. It should read "will" instead of "shall". Rolls off the tongue better I find.

>Was the 5th company still supposed to be the field of 100 blades?
Actually one of the anons was going to draw a banner. While the threads were running he showed us a cool pencil sketch. The picture is what I linked earlier. But I think we could go ahead and just make a new one.

One of the idea we were tossing around was to have the banner display a field of blades. All oriented upright so that the blades would line up like rows of grass with the tips forming a sort of scale pattern. And if you counted them all individually they would add up to 100. But that on its own wouldn't make for an interesting banner. Can you think of anything else to add to it?

>What about if 4th company was simply a crown of swords surrounding a flame in the center?
When you say "crown" do you mean like forming an upright ring around the "head" of the flame? That works too. The skull didn't really fit in on second thought.

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anonymous Fri 06 Jan 2012 15:49:03 No.17441417 Report

Quoted By: >>17443405

bump

Starshadow Fri 06 Jan 2012 15:50:03 No.17441419 Report

Quoted By:

At first I thought that we never came up with a battlecry or banner for the Night Owls. But then I stumbled upon this in one of the threads:

>I also like the other symbol associated with the chapter: the two headed owl with one head blindfolded and asleep, the other head alert and watchful, the wings spread like an aquila and the claws clutching an hourglass. IIRC that was the original chapter symbol but is now the heraldry of the Night Owls.

I didn't remember this at first but it sounds good. I like the double-headed owl idea. We still have to give them a battlecry.

Starshadow Fri 06 Jan 2012 15:58:03 No.17441469 Report

Quoted By:

Another symbol someone came up with was the half-owl face represented by a single staring eye.

http://archive.foolz.us/tg/thread/14636233/#14636710

Jareddm Fri 06 Jan 2012 19:48:03 No.17442410 Report

Quoted By: >>17446172

>When you say "crown" do you mean like forming an upright ring around the "head" of the flame?
Yes, exactly that.

>double-headed owl idea.
This feels like just a poor man's aquila. I think a lot of these ideas were forgotten for a reason. They're a little overbearing and stick out.

I think something we have to remember is the bird symbolism is not a primary symbol of the chapter. Yes the chapter symbol has the owl form to it, but many of these verge on space wolf territory.
The bird symbols are far more important to Icelus, not the chapter.

Jareddm Fri 06 Jan 2012 22:29:03 No.17443405 Report

Quoted By: >>17446793

>>17441417
Now here's an interesting idea.

Sleepless armor etchings that appear as optical illusions. Not really any different from what we had before. Just adds to the disturbing factor when it looks like their armor is moving on its own accord.

Starshadow Sat 07 Jan 2012 04:15:02 No.17446172 Report

Quoted By: >>17455150

>>17442410
Hmm, that's a good point. The only time the bird iconography really comes out is when something is trying to embody the chapter as a whole. In such cases the symbolism is wholly intentional. Not just tacked on everywhere or overdone like Canis Wolfborn aka Brains of Clown.

The Honour Guards represent the best of the chapter and the heroes of the Raven Guard. So the feather motif and the black colouring fits in well. Since the feathers are painted and sometimes slightly etched into the armour, its not like we made them out to be birds furries. (is featherfags even a thing?)

The Chaplains go a bit further and wear bird-skull helmets and real feather cloaks. But keeping the chapter connected to its roots and traditions is what they do. And they do it best by embodying those concepts in both personality and appearance. So this makes sense too.

Apart from that you really don't find birds in any other places in the chapter. I think one the librarians had a Psyber Owl. But apart from that the whole bird motif is an Icelian thing. The Nightmares only adopted the symbol, and its as much an hourglass as it is a bird.

--

That said it would be really silly for the "Night Owls" not to have an owl on their company banner in some form.

Anonymous Sat 07 Jan 2012 04:20:02 No.17446224 Report

Quoted By: >>17446768 >>17446793

Oh, God-Emperor, I was just wondering if I should try rousing the Nightmares again.

>>17433053
Perfect look for them. Maybe call it a different pattern of power armour entirely?

>>17429279
Would anyone mind if I tried my hand at writing a bit of fluff about the aftermath of the story Jareddm wrote about Alpha Legionaires (Flawed Ones) attack against the Nightmares, in which they were all but wiped out? From the perspective of the traitors?

Jareddm Sat 07 Jan 2012 05:08:02 No.17446739 Report

Quoted By: >>17447097

>The Honour Guards
Just want to confirm that since the honor guard terminator armor were all given to the chapter from the Raven Guard, all the feather imagery on them was actually done by the Raven Guard when they owned it. Right?

>The Chaplains
Agreed.

>That said it would be really silly for the "Night Owls" not to have an owl on their company banner in some form.

I suppose one on the company banner wouldn't hurt. Actually, would you want it to take elements from the Chapter banner? Maybe placing the black owlglass in the center? Obviously the rest would be different, but it could be used as a centerpiece.

Jareddm Sat 07 Jan 2012 05:11:02 No.17446768 Report

Quoted By:

>>17446224
You're free to write whatever you like and we are free to criticize it :P

In all seriousness, be my guest.

captcha: ernow Owl!

It seems captcha agrees.

Starshadow Sat 07 Jan 2012 05:13:02 No.17446793 Report

Quoted By:

>>17446224
I don't think we need to go that far. Its just power armour without the shoulder pads. The shoulder pads are not load bearing or part of the armour's muscles. So its not a new mark of armour by any means and you don't lose anything besides protection and weight. For those worn by captains and other heroes, you could pass it off as one-of versions of artificer armour.

Fluff is always good! The Flawed One Insurrection is a very important part of their history because it marks both their first near-extinction crisis and the better integration of Sleepless into the chapter. If they didn't have some sort of earth shattering event like this in their history that alone would make them Sues.

>>17443405
Optical illusions and fractal patterns. High contrast colouring between purple/gold/white/silver ceramite. Pretty much 3d Dazzle Camouflage right? That is REALLY cool. One marine on his own would make your eyes hurt just too look at him.

Imagine having to fight 30 of them in a mirror maze.

Starshadow Sat 07 Jan 2012 05:31:02 No.17446986 Report

Quoted By: >>17447097 >>17447175

>Just want to confirm that since the honor guard terminator armor were all given to the chapter from the Raven Guard, all the feather imagery on them was actually done by the Raven Guard when they owned it. Right?
IIRC what I said back then was that three of the armour suits were gifts from the Raven Guard at the chapter's founding. So what we could do is this:

- While the original white chapter emblem was painted over the Nightmares decided to keep all of the original Ravens iconography and doodads intact as a sign of respect. Feather patterns on the surface of the armour, winged kneepads etc.
- Most of the other 45 suits given to the chapter by the Mechanicus were reconstructed from partially destroyed sets. About half of them were "factory fresh".

When they added the two other suits to the Honour Guard, they crafted them to look more like the trio of originals. So the complete squad has 3 Ravens and two suits that look more like Owls. Subtle touches like the helmet being more rounded and having a beak, feather trim on the shoulders. Talons molded into the boots, etc.

Starshadow Sat 07 Jan 2012 05:40:02 No.17447097 Report

Quoted By: >>17447234

>>17446986
Er 47 rather. The total number of suits they got was 50. Most chapters try to maintain about 100 suits. A couple big name chapters like the Dark Angels probably have more than that.

>>17446739
How about an owl staring THROUGH an hourglass with black sand in it?

Jareddm Sat 07 Jan 2012 05:46:01 No.17447175 Report

Quoted By:

>>17446986
No complaints here. In the grand scheme of things it's such a minor element for such a tiny fraction of the chapter.

Jareddm Sat 07 Jan 2012 05:50:02 No.17447234 Report

Quoted By: >>17447272 >>17447282

>>17447097
So...you want a glass distortion effect on a comapany banner? Seems kinda intricate don't you think? Plus wouldn't it be really hard to see the owl if he's standing behind flowing black sand? Especially if the background was the chapter standard night sky purple?

Starshadow Sat 07 Jan 2012 05:53:03 No.17447272 Report

Quoted By:

>>17447234
Not a whole owl. What if it was a stylized half-face with one eye looking through the top of the hourglass over the sand. The owl would be grey and his eye would show the chapter colours. The background could then be a starry night with the moon and everything.

Its dinnertime over here so I'll be back in a couple hours.

Starshadow Sat 07 Jan 2012 05:54:01 No.17447282 Report

Quoted By:

>>17447234
Oh forgot to mention. Its a banner, not a painted mural. So there wouldn't be any glass distortion and the hourglass would just be shaped lines. Just like the chapter symbol.

I can mockup something in paint when I get back.

Anonymous Sat 07 Jan 2012 08:57:02 No.17449271 Report

Quoted By:

bump

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace banner test.png, 10KiB, 393x617

Starshadow Sat 07 Jan 2012 12:24:02 No.17451158 Report

Quoted By: >>17453590

Well I was up messing around in paint for a while. Not entirely sure what I was trying to do. Ended up with this.

Starshadow Sat 07 Jan 2012 13:09:02 No.17451589 Report

Quoted By:

We can come back to that later. The next three companies were:

Leander Nyseos, Claw of the Dusk
6th Company: Howling Dark
> "The darkness is our home, and we are its claws"
Infiltrators supreme, day or night. Company banner is an eye, with the iris stylized to form a crescent moon with purple and yellow.

Tamren Acronum, Watcher of Watchers
7th Company: Star Shadows
>"Under cloak of night, by sword and starlight"
Night fighters, specialized for fighting in complete darkness or other zero visibility situations. Company banner is a trio of vertical swords sheathed in lightning. Set inside a glowing circle representing a solar eclipse.

Jaiden Destrier, Eye of the Storm
8th Company: Lightning Executioners
>"Like the distant thunder, often heard, never seen"
Ambush, assassination and sabotage specialists. Company banner is the black outline of an Icelus dreadnought, right claw raised to the sky. Silhouetted against a full moon and crossed lightning bolts.

The Captains, Titles and Battlecries are all great. But the banners could use a little work. Back then I was the only person working on this stuff, so we didn't do much collective work on the banners. Some of them worked out fine, like the 2nd and 3rd companies. But others, like 8th company suffered from lack of discussion.

Anonymous Sat 07 Jan 2012 19:41:02 No.17453590 Report

Quoted By:

>>17451158
Okay, now that's nothing at all like I was imagining. Let's just say my fears were unfounded.

As for the banners, I'm looking over the Ultramarine banners for ideas. Perhaps we could add an element from one of the major battles a company was involved with ? Like how the Ultramarines added the tyranids to their heraldry.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace photoshop badges screen copy.jpg, 135KiB, 604x552

Anonymous Sat 07 Jan 2012 20:15:02 No.17453805 Report

Quoted By: >>17453837

fa/tg/uys, i've got photoshoop and some time to kill, if you come up with some banner ideas i can draw them up. i don't have DOW2, but I have made a bunch of different badges/banners for DOW.

Jareddm Sat 07 Jan 2012 20:21:01 No.17453837 Report

Quoted By: >>17454654

>>17453805
Cool! 2nd, 3rd, and 4th company banner ideas are pretty much set, so if you'd like to try your hand at those, that would be great.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace Emperor's Nightmares 3rd Co Prev (...).jpg, 281KiB, 1024x694

Anonymous Sat 07 Jan 2012 22:06:01 No.17454654 Report

Quoted By: >>17454785 >>17455059

>>17453837
here's a preview for the 3rd

Jareddm Sat 07 Jan 2012 22:26:05 No.17454785 Report

Quoted By:

>>17454654
Very nice start! Just one thing, the Owlglass with the black infinity symbol is for the Night Owls. You can find the normal one on the chapter's 1d4chan.

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/File:Updated_Owlglass.png

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace 1302458284615.jpg, 174KiB, 873x627

Anonymous Sat 07 Jan 2012 22:51:02 No.17454979 Report

Quoted By:

>>17433053

Pic is the modded Sternguard.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace 1297406754857.jpg, 335KiB, 992x1129

anonymous Sat 07 Jan 2012 22:59:02 No.17455034 Report

Quoted By:

bump

Anonymous Sat 07 Jan 2012 23:03:01 No.17455059 Report

Quoted By: >>17455186

>>17454654

I like it. I would make the 3 more prominent, and perhaps change it to a III? That could be enlarged and featured in the background, under the hammer.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace Technomancer_emperorsnightmare.jpg, 708KiB, 1400x1600

anonymous Sat 07 Jan 2012 23:17:02 No.17455150 Report

Quoted By:

>>17446172

pic mixed with a plauge doctor and we have a nightmare chaplin then, should they keep the 3rd eye to sympolise Chapter Friendship with Scholastica Psykana?

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace 3rd Comp preview 2.jpg, 101KiB, 540x534

Anonymous Sat 07 Jan 2012 23:22:01 No.17455186 Report

Quoted By: >>17455419

>>17455059
an update. this is gonna take a while. look for it on 1d4chan at some point.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace 1309592587551.jpg, 74KiB, 500x375

anonymous Sat 07 Jan 2012 23:22:01 No.17455189 Report

Quoted By:

>>17407058

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace 1302979110427.jpg, 113KiB, 400x532

anonymous Sat 07 Jan 2012 23:36:02 No.17455322 Report

Quoted By: >>17455419

>>17407058
i was thinking about why the first company was caled night owls, i read on the 1d4chan wiki that icelus most dangerus predators are day active. the most dangerus of these could be some kind of monster owl(think fenresian wolf). since the first are masters of boath combat doctrins they are night(as in secundus) owls(as in primus)

pic related. this image was in one of the first thrends.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace Whathasnaturedone.jpg, 783KiB, 1444x2244

Jareddm Sat 07 Jan 2012 23:50:02 No.17455419 Report

Quoted By: >>17455500 >>17455661

>>17455186
Looking good! I agree that the three looks a little odd, but the scroll work is really nice.

>>17455322
I figured the Night Stalker was one of the most dangerous preadators.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace 1296859383224.jpg, 44KiB, 336x350

anonymous Sat 07 Jan 2012 23:59:01 No.17455500 Report

Quoted By: >>17455767

>>17455419
the wiki makes no mention of the night stalker, enlighten me.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace 1305686121600.jpg, 248KiB, 506x800

anonymous Sun 08 Jan 2012 00:02:02 No.17455525 Report

Quoted By: >>17455611

>>17407058
so... is this thrend good enough for the archives?

Anonymous Sun 08 Jan 2012 00:10:03 No.17455611 Report

Quoted By:

>>17455525
It probably is. Discussions were had at the beginnings, drawings are being made, and the thread still has the potential for growing.

Anonymous Sun 08 Jan 2012 00:15:03 No.17455661 Report

Quoted By: >>17455792

>>17455419
find me a drawing of the calligraphy "3" i just have some gothic text in photoshop

Jareddm Sun 08 Jan 2012 00:31:02 No.17455767 Report

Quoted By: >>17456775

>>17455500
Really? Hmm...that's surprising considering there were even stories written about it.

Basically it can light up those things on its chest at night to make it look like a vehicle or a sign of civilization. When wanderers in the salt flats see the lights, they rush towards it, as there's literally no other landmarks out on the flats. When they get close, the Stalker can rip them apart.

Jareddm Sun 08 Jan 2012 00:34:01 No.17455792 Report

Quoted By: >>17455816

>>17455661
The marine fonts on this page looks like it has them. They're not great quality, so I'll keep looking.

http://rooksnest.tripod.com/40Kvariants/fonts.htm

That said, for company banners, it might be better to simply use roman numerals.

Anonymous Sun 08 Jan 2012 00:36:01 No.17455816 Report

Quoted By: >>17456136

>>17455792

I second the Roman numerals. It's more symmetrical, easily recognised from far away and thus lends itself well to a banner.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace Emperor's Nightmares 3rd Company (...).png, 531KiB, 1000x1000

Anonymous Sun 08 Jan 2012 01:24:01 No.17456136 Report

Quoted By: >>17456508 >>17456546 >>17457401

>>17455816
easier is better.

what else should i add?

Jareddm Sun 08 Jan 2012 02:09:01 No.17456508 Report

Quoted By:

>>17456136
Actually I don't think anything else is needed. Maybe just a pattern on the background, but otherwise it looks really nice.

Anonymous Sun 08 Jan 2012 02:14:01 No.17456546 Report

Quoted By:

>>17456136

I would change the font to whatever is used in the chapter's standard. Just for the sake of consistency.

anonymous Sun 08 Jan 2012 02:46:01 No.17456775 Report

Quoted By:

>>17455767

hmm... indeed a deadly animal, but a nocternal one.

this creature know as the isabulik is a anbush predator that can only fly a short distance, its feathers are more like a salamanders scale and its claws are sharp enough to cut ceramite. but it is its cunning that makes icelus apex predator.

Starshadow Sun 08 Jan 2012 03:52:02 No.17457366 Report

Quoted By:

Apart from everything else, Icelus does have normal Giant Owls. They were burrowing and nocturnal if I remember correctly. I think this is what the night owls are based off of.

Starshadow Sun 08 Jan 2012 03:55:02 No.17457401 Report

Quoted By: >>17458318

>>17456136
Couple things you could add to it:

- "action lines" to make it more clear that the fist is falling and striking the anvil.
- Sparks coming off the impact zone.
- A sun rising out of the anvil to represent the dawn.
- I know gold is pretty hard to draw but the fist could be more shiny.

Anonymous Sun 08 Jan 2012 05:12:02 No.17458167 Report

Quoted By:

bump!

Anonymous Sun 08 Jan 2012 05:23:02 No.17458318 Report

Quoted By: >>17459256

>>17457401
Add an iron halo effect around the fist, maybe?

Starshadow Sun 08 Jan 2012 07:02:02 No.17459256 Report

Quoted By: >>17459341

>>17458318
Hey that's a great idea! Having a sunrise in the background would clash with a shiny golden fist. But the halo would be perfect.

Jareddm Sun 08 Jan 2012 07:12:01 No.17459341 Report

Quoted By: >>17459427 >>17459541

>>17459256
You mean like the iron halo would appear as the "impact wave" from the anvil?

It's certainly a neat idea.

Starshadow Sun 08 Jan 2012 07:20:01 No.17459427 Report

Quoted By:

>>17459341
>Advice Hammersmith
>Punch anvils
>Become awesome

Anonymous Sun 08 Jan 2012 07:32:02 No.17459541 Report

Quoted By:

>>17459341
That or steal the "Iron Halo above fist" idea from the Crimson fist heraldry

Anonymous Sun 08 Jan 2012 10:00:02 No.17460898 Report

Quoted By: >>17461005 >>17461162

So we have the mottos for the entire Chapter now?

Jareddm Sun 08 Jan 2012 10:10:04 No.17461005 Report

Quoted By:

>>17460898
There's a little bit of discussion about a few of the weaker ones, but for the most part these were done months ago.

Starshadow Sun 08 Jan 2012 10:31:01 No.17461162 Report

Quoted By:

>>17460898
There are some still missing and some that need work.

Most of them are straight up RAAAAGH type battlecries. Others, particularly the Secundus ones are more like a motto the marines chant as they go into combat. A couple of them can be used both ways like 7th company.

Starshadow Sun 08 Jan 2012 11:55:01 No.17461979 Report

Quoted By: >>17462258 >>17464794

Just had a little brainwave about what weapons each company favours. 1st Company doesn't have a preference because its made up of marines from all the other companies.

2nd Company: Plasma weapons, Power Axes and Heavy Bolters
3rd Company: Thunder Hammers, Powerfists and Lascannons
4th Company: Meltaguns and Flamers
5th Company: Chainswords and Combat Shields used with a Bolt Pistol in the same hand
6th Company: Lightning Claws
7th Company: Power Swords/Knives
8th Company: Missile Launchers and Sniper Rifles
9th Company: Stalker Bolters
10th Company: Bolters and Shotguns

Anonymous Sun 08 Jan 2012 12:25:02 No.17462258 Report

Quoted By: >>17462590

>>17461979
By "favoured", do you mean "used more by the Marines you'd expect to use them"?

(ie. In any given century, you'll see more 2nd Company Devastators with heavy bolters and plasma cannons, and Sergeants using power axes as signs of office?)

Starshadow Sun 08 Jan 2012 13:00:01 No.17462590 Report

Quoted By: >>17464794

>>17462258
Essentially yes. Every company maintains a balanced armoury when they go on campaign just in case a given situation arises. So while 9th company would favour the whole Secundus sneaky thing, they would still have jumps packs and chainswords just in case they need to do a drop pod/deep strike combined assault.

Different companies favour different weapons. Partly because of personal preference in fitting with each companies collective identity. But also because their tactics and doctrine make heavy use of particular items of gear. So on average you would see more marines with that equipment.

Starshadow Sun 08 Jan 2012 16:33:01 No.17463899 Report

Quoted By:

Milo Icarus, The Unseen
9th Company: Mantle of Shadows
>"Without mercy, without warning, without a sound"
Stealth generalists. Often deploys alongside 5th company in joint operations.

In light of 7th Company, would you guys be against renaming this company to "Cloak of Midnight". I think it would fit better.

Jareddm Sun 08 Jan 2012 19:36:02 No.17464794 Report

Quoted By: >>17464999

>>17461979
>>17462590
eh...I don't really agree with this only because there's no real precedence for it from any other company from other chapters. Individual marines may favor certain weapons, but saying that something is favored by a company just doesn't feel right.

Starshadow Sun 08 Jan 2012 20:14:15 No.17464999 Report

Quoted By: >>17465506

>>17464794
Why not? Its really not that complicated. Saying that 3rd Company likes hammers is like saying the Death Company likes chainswords.

On average the individual marines of a certain company will favour a different set of weapons. Its the marines that define the company, not the other way around. Exactly which weapons depends almost entirely on the tactics that company uses. And since the captain is the one who leads them into battle, HIS preferences rub off onto the rest of the company too.

Its just meant to give the impression that different companies like using certain weapons because they are really good with them.

Jareddm Sun 08 Jan 2012 21:41:01 No.17465506 Report

Quoted By: >>17465634

>>17464999
I suppose...I'm always worried about the lowest common denominator that's going to look at that and think the entire company only uses that weapon.

People are dumb. People are REAL dumb.

That said, there's one important clarification. The heavy weapons you listed are for the company dreads only, seeing as how the chapter doesn't use normal devastator squads.

Starshadow Sun 08 Jan 2012 22:01:02 No.17465634 Report

Quoted By: >>17465743

>>17465506
Tac Squads do carry heavy weapons. But yeah, most fire support is going to be a dreadnought. If you want to avoid that problem we could just avoid mentioning it directly. Nowhere would it say "Favoured Weapon: Chainsword". But it would come up as a random fact when talking about marines from that company, and their captains in particular.

Jareddm Mon 09 Jan 2012 01:44:40 No.17465743 Report

Quoted By:

>>17465634
I actually prefer that the favored weapon was just something for the captains. It's a good start to giving them details.

My issue with the heavy weapons was that even in a tactical squad, there's the risk of a marine falling asleep, which is why we came up with the support dreads in the first place..

Anonymous Mon 09 Jan 2012 01:54:40 No.17465774 Report

Quoted By:

Yeah, I don't see Companies biased towards those weapons as something that really works. Maybe you could give a few "Company relics" that tend to crop up in the hands of heroes from those Companies?

Starshadow Mon 09 Jan 2012 06:30:26 No.17468381 Report

Quoted By:

>I actually prefer that the favored weapon was just something for the captains.
Or... we could do this. That works well because the preferences of the Captain does influence the other marines in the company. So we could say that Captain X favours Y weapons and Z tactics that make use of those weapons. This is why you would see them in use more often than not. Not because the company has a bias.

Heavy weapons in tac squads is not a problem. In the average squad there will be one heavy and one special weapon, the rest bolters except for the sergeant. So if the guy with the heavy bolter drops, there are 7 more marines free to pick it up and continue fighting. IIRC this is actually the explanation for why the owning player gets to remove the model of his choice in the TT game.

In a Devastator squad the margin for error is a lot smaller, you have 4 heavy weapons and only 5 free marines. If all 4 became casualties you wouldn't have enough free hands to carry them to safety and man all the heavy weapons. And with the chance of marines falling asleep, deploying something like the minimum 5-man dev squad would be a ridiculous proposition.

Anonymous Mon 09 Jan 2012 09:37:02 No.17470923 Report

Quoted By: >>17471135

To sleep...

Jareddm Mon 09 Jan 2012 09:55:02 No.17471135 Report

Quoted By:

>>17470923
...perchance to dream

Yes the captains works fine. And I'm bringing it up because under the deathwatch rules, the chapter can't take devastator marines. But I suppoe tac marines are still proficient in heavy weapons.

Starshadow Mon 09 Jan 2012 12:44:01 No.17472935 Report

Quoted By: >>17475598

I'm not sure how the fluff has changed over the editions but it used to be that scouts graduated into devastators, then assault squads. Its only after they gathered sufficient experience from both that they became tactical marines.

With the Nightmare's "every marine is a tactical marine" thing. I suppose it would mean that the normal progression would be futzed a bit. We should figure out how they progress from scout onward.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace Icelus map.jpg, 2MiB, 2133x1600

Anonymous Mon 09 Jan 2012 13:06:02 No.17473148 Report

Quoted By: >>17474958

Hey res/tg/uardians, I just want you all to know that the Emperor's Nightmare is awesome, and Icelus is awesome, and this thread is awesome, and YOU are awesome.

Seriously. I was around for the very beginning, but due to computer issues I had to observe from the archives and couldn't join in the fun. Now I just started playing Dark Heresy/Rogue Trader/Deathwatch with a bunch of really good friends, and I can already tell that Icelus and the Emperor's Nightmare are gonna show up a lot. Thanks for giving me all this amazing stuff to work with.

If this thread's still around tomorrow, I'll try and help out as much as I can. I need to start giving back, after all.

Anonymous Mon 09 Jan 2012 13:08:02 No.17473172 Report

Quoted By: >>17474958

>>17407058

>You now realize that the yellow triangle is a thong hanging from the scroll
>whathasbeenseen.jpg

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace 1302159562884.jpg, 51KiB, 858x608

anonymous Mon 09 Jan 2012 14:26:02 No.17473715 Report

Quoted By: >>17475598

is this thrend still alive? if so i would like to discuss the apotacarys, to handel the sleepless requires a strong mind...

Starshadow Mon 09 Jan 2012 17:25:01 No.17474958 Report

Quoted By:

>>17473148
Sweet! Nightmare storytime is always fun.

>>17473172
I just realized the feet on the owlglass look like googly eyes.

Jareddm Mon 09 Jan 2012 19:46:15 No.17475598 Report

Quoted By: >>17477474 >>17483314

>>17472935
It's just like the Black Templar. They simply don't have devastator squads.

>>17473715
Sure! What did you want to ask about?

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace These tragic souls.jpg, 564KiB, 999x1530

anonymous Tue 10 Jan 2012 00:34:25 No.17477474 Report

Quoted By: >>17477570 >>17480060

>>17475598 well, i was wondering about them in general. mostly how to play them in deathwatch.

and since they guard the sleapless they must be preaty badass to stop them and endure their insanity. i think they should have the mental fortitude talent for exsample.

pic related. the home of the sleepless must be pretty fucked up(what was it named named again? and yes, there is a reward for those who can track that image)

anonymous Tue 10 Jan 2012 00:41:01 No.17477570 Report

Quoted By:

>>17477474

why did that sentence become green? i did not mean to imply anything

Jareddm Tue 10 Jan 2012 04:09:02 No.17480060 Report

Quoted By: >>17484364

>>17477474
Well, out in the field, the Phobetor Dreadnoughts are responsible for herding the Sleepless in the right direction. But within Betten-Burgen, yeah, the apothecaries keep them under control. Just as importantly, the apothecaries have to consistently test for Catalepsean Node failure among their assigned company and gather up both the geneseed and dreamcatcher of marines who have fallen in the field.

Anonymous Tue 10 Jan 2012 05:53:16 No.17481545 Report

Quoted By: >>17484364

>I'm not sure how the fluff has changed over the editions but it used to be that scouts graduated into devastators, then assault squads. Its only after they gathered sufficient experience from both that they became tactical marines.

Nah, that's the Mat Ward 5th edition thing. Previously Scouts were sorted directly into squads or specializations based on their aptitudes.

Starshadow Tue 10 Jan 2012 08:22:02 No.17483314 Report

Quoted By:

>>17475598
I was more referring to how the progression plays out between scout and marine. BTs are a bad example because they start with Neophytes and have a totally different organization.

Starshadow Tue 10 Jan 2012 09:55:01 No.17484364 Report

Quoted By:

>>17480060
The best way to think of the Phobetor is a EOD suit for medics. While at home in quiet settings (most of) the Sleepless have enough cognizance to recognize an Apothecary as friendly. But on the battlefield shit happens and they have a lot more to contend with.

>>17481545
I think it might have changed between editions and changed back once or twice. But anyway the gist of it still holds true. Devastator to get shooting experience from a (relatively) safe position. Assault to learn how to bash heads. And then Tactical once you know how to do both and have some strategic wisdom built up.

In the Nightmares we pretty much the same thing, only organized differently. Aspirants start as scouts, and they provide support to all companies. Once they are done with scouting they move on to be a marine in Primus. At that point marines will have a complete education as tactical marines and transfer around the different companies until they feel like they have found a place.

So they would essentially go Stealth-Assault-Tactical with the Devastator part divided between stealth and assault. Make sense?

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace 1309700863889.jpg, 656KiB, 693x1000

Starshadow Tue 10 Jan 2012 10:45:02 No.17484989 Report

Quoted By: >>17485047 >>17487145

"I have often been questioned by my peers as to why I have diverged the path of my chapter from that set down in the Codex. The Codex Astartes is a pillar of strength, not a foundation. To uphold the Codex is to stand upon the shoulders of giants. But the Codex alone will not bring solid footing to uncertain ground. Those who cannot see beyond the word of their forefathers will trip and fall in the face of an enemy who embraces change."

"A giant can not lead the blind."

Chapter Master Randolphus, First and Only

Anonymous Tue 10 Jan 2012 10:51:01 No.17485047 Report

Quoted By:

>>17484989
Very nice. I particularly like the reference to an enemy who embraces change, given his past deeds.

Starshadow Tue 10 Jan 2012 11:57:02 No.17485732 Report

Quoted By:

In other news I just posted a picture of a Secundus marine and popped a holy 666. The Emperor protects!

>>17485666

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace Howard-Terpning-Holy-Man-Of-The- (...).jpg, 28KiB, 449x600

anonymous Tue 10 Jan 2012 14:35:02 No.17487145 Report

Quoted By: >>17488199

>>17484989

you ask why we venerate our founder with such zeal inquisitor? it could be atributed to our iclusian culture true,

but consider this: we were the hope of our legion. mars had stugeled to heal our gene-seed for countless summers and was so close. but than the sleeplesnes came and crused the hopes of the raven guard.

we were the abortions of mars.

when none other would belive in us, he. randolphus took us under his wings and found our true caling of guardin the dreamskape. that is why we venerate him. he our savior and in turn the saviorr of nummberless souls. because he dared believe in us.

-reclusiarch Annakpok

Starshadow Tue 10 Jan 2012 16:29:02 No.17488199 Report

Quoted By: >>17489396 >>17489441

>>17487145
Hmm. I can see what you are going for there, but it doesn't quite fit the fluff we have already established.

anonymous Tue 10 Jan 2012 20:14:01 No.17489396 Report

Quoted By:

>>17488199

yeah, too native american huh? i was trying to find a inuit holyman but ran out of time.

an i may have painted the nightmares cult to feral.

anonymous Tue 10 Jan 2012 20:26:02 No.17489441 Report

Quoted By:

>>17488199

what did i do wrong?

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace horrors of the universe appear s (...).jpg, 106KiB, 500x375

anonymous Tue 10 Jan 2012 20:45:01 No.17489526 Report

Quoted By: >>17489586 >>17489667

>>17407058

i was thinking about their trial of the aspirant. it is formost a challenge but also a exosure trial.

so.... what will their first mounth in the dream world be like?

anonymous Tue 10 Jan 2012 20:59:01 No.17489586 Report

Quoted By:

>>17489526

Knowledge of Self then?

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anonymous Tue 10 Jan 2012 21:12:02 No.17489667 Report

Quoted By: >>17489929 >>17491334

>>17489526

>Characters that underwent
a Challenge Trial before being accepted in the ranks of
the Chapter’s Neophytes are often possessed of a highly
developed sense of their own superiority. Instead of
superiors, they often regard the offi cers of their Chapter
and the Deathwatch as equals, especially those rare
few who actually bettered the brother they challenged.
This rarely manifests itself as outright insubordination,
but it can occasionally cause tension. Even the psychoconditioning
every Neophyte endures cannot totally
erase the notion that the Battle-Brother is equal in skill,
if not rank, to his superiors and he is never afraid to
question their orders if he feels they are ill-judged.

>Characters that underwent
an Exposure Trial before being accepted in the ranks of the
Chapter’s Neophytes are often stoic and dour in the face
of discomfort and adversity, uncaring of environmental
ills that others would fi nd insurmountable. They are
unmoved by the challenge of crossing mountains, wading
through sucking swamps, plunging into snow storms and
many other such environmental hazards. Some even seek
out such challenges, seeming to prefer life in the wild to
that in the Watch-Fortress.

>Characters that underwent
a Knowledge of Self Trial before being accepted in the
ranks of the Chapter’s Neophytes have faced the very
worst terrors their own psyches can conjure, against
which the horrors of the universe appear shallow and
wan. They are often blessed of a calm self-assurance
in the face of adversity. But such warriors often hold a
darker secret which they keep locked deep inside, their
nightmares haunted by the things they faced so long ago.
Some things no man wishes to learn about himself.

sounds good to me.

Jareddm Tue 10 Jan 2012 21:58:01 No.17489929 Report

Quoted By: >>17492201

>>17489667
I don't think I understand where you're getting these from The chapter's aspirants all have to do the same thing. Get a night scented gilliflower and bring it undamaged to the fortress monestary. What are these others that you're talking about?

Anonymous Wed 11 Jan 2012 00:33:36 No.17491334 Report

Quoted By: >>17492239

>>17489667
Sounds like a description of Black Templar Neophytes to me.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace scented gilliflower.jpg, 37KiB, 320x480

anonymous Wed 11 Jan 2012 02:00:02 No.17492201 Report

Quoted By: >>17493667

>>17489929

well geting the scented gilliflower to the monestary is the challange. but it alsou involves exposing themselvs to the wasteland. and if they come from the wasteland the aspirant must shurly need food and water from the hive.

and i know it is pretty late in the game, but i thought that the knowlage of the self trial was a good idea considering that the nightmares will basically enter the warp every other month. and to enter the dream world for the first time must be intense if not traumatic.

a chapter can have elements of other trials in the main trial like how blood angel aspirants must first survive the waste land and then dule the other survivors. i mean look att the space wolves. they have almost fucking all of them.

anonymous Wed 11 Jan 2012 02:04:02 No.17492239 Report

Quoted By:

>>17491334

it is. i was sugesting that the nightmares could use simular methods.

Jareddm Wed 11 Jan 2012 04:17:14 No.17493667 Report

Quoted By: >>17494520

>>17492201
But you make it sound like they're three separate trials. Every aspirant has to walk through the wastelands to reach the fortress monastery.

The only one that sticks out as something not all Nightmares will have done is the Knowledge of Self, because only those aspirants who are psychically inclined actually enter the dreamscapes. All the others simply sleep.

So if this is something for a deathwatch game, you could make it what the aspirants origins were; they could be hiver, tribesman, or scholastica psykana.

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anonymous Wed 11 Jan 2012 04:27:17 No.17493796 Report

Quoted By:

bump

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace Betten-Burgen.jpg, 67KiB, 640x480

anonymous Wed 11 Jan 2012 05:27:02 No.17494520 Report

Quoted By: >>17494946 >>17501826

>>17493667

oh... you are right. but the flower quest still have both demeanor modifications?

as for knowlege of the self, i know that not all of them are dreams or Shepherds, but the rest of the chapter still have lucid dreams witch may have visions of the future right? it still implies that their mind touch the warp right? and besides, when they come to betten-burgen they will be mentaly and physically exhausted, the perfect time for this trial. would be easy too, when the aspirant learns to deal with the skewed circadian rhythm they could be feed drugs(made from their scented gilliflower?).

Anonymous Wed 11 Jan 2012 05:41:03 No.17494673 Report

Quoted By: >>17494946

Ohey, Nightmares thread. Awesome.

I see some talk about banners, I've been wanting to see someone make a halfway decent attempt at a banner idea I'd written up way back in the original threads.

In other news, I was one of the earlier Deathwatch game Nightmares, and the game is drawing to its end. I'll have some shit to tell you guys. We're actually on Icelus right now.

Jareddm Wed 11 Jan 2012 06:03:03 No.17494946 Report

Quoted By:

>>17494520
But that sort of stuff doesn't happen until they have their second round of organs implanted. That's several years after they first get to the monastery. And yes I suppose the chapter can all have visions of the future, but they can't actually interact with anything in the dreamscapes the same way a dreamwalker can. Though things in the dreamscapes can interact with them, hence the dreamcatcher ward, which isn't completed at least until they're halfway through scout training.

The drugs from the giliflower idea was originally dropped because it was too similar to the flower from Batman Begins.

Neat picture btw. Now what I pictured Betten-Burgen to look like, but it can certainly work.

>>17494673
Can't wait to hear it. We almost have a finished 3rd company banner that's looking really sweet.

Starshadow Wed 11 Jan 2012 09:07:03 No.17497101 Report

Quoted By: >>17501088

"I have often encountered surprise at the colours we choose to adorn ourselves. Thought few speakers will questions our choices openly. The Codex teaches us that what the enemy can see, he will soon learn to fear. Yet the lessons of our progenitor and brothers of the Raven Guard would say that one must see, and must not be seen.

I see no conflict. To fall from the sky on wings of fire. To crush the enemy under the light of a rising sun. Some might not think of these as acts of stealth. But to embrace the act of remaining unseen, one must remember. The radiance of a coming dawn can blind as well as the cloaking shadows of midnight.

I am the light of the Dawn. Why hide from an enemy who can not see?"

-Isidore Demeter, Lord Adjutant Primus

Starshadow Wed 11 Jan 2012 13:13:02 No.17499502 Report

Quoted By: >>17502056

Any characters from the chapter you guys think would be particularly quotable?

anonymous Wed 11 Jan 2012 16:44:03 No.17501088 Report

Quoted By:

>>17497101

awsome! this alsou shows that primus is not "clumsy".

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anonymous Wed 11 Jan 2012 19:37:04 No.17501826 Report

Quoted By:

>>17494520

well, i....okay...

its just that no chapter i know of have that mix of trials.

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anonymous Wed 11 Jan 2012 20:11:04 No.17501979 Report

Quoted By: >>17502056

how do primus employ terminato squads now again?

Starshadow Wed 11 Jan 2012 20:17:03 No.17502006 Report

Quoted By:

I have some more ideas for Nightmare quotes, but they are pretty nebulous at the moment. Will return to work on them later. If and when we finally collate all of this stuff into a codex we will need a lot of these little fluff things to fill it out.

Jareddm Wed 11 Jan 2012 20:24:03 No.17502056 Report

Quoted By:

>>17501979
Each of the of the four Primus companies has one squad's worth, with the remaining 5 going to the honor guard.

>>17499502
Brother Tibalt and Valter Fervesco would be my ideas.

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anonymous Wed 11 Jan 2012 20:32:03 No.17502105 Report

Quoted By:

so what was icelus like before the nightmares?

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anonymous Wed 11 Jan 2012 20:39:03 No.17502144 Report

Quoted By: >>17502161 >>17502198 >>17508679

>>17407058

just saw the map of icelus. and there is a minor ork infestation near secundus hive. why have the nightmares not done anything?

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anonymous Wed 11 Jan 2012 20:42:03 No.17502161 Report

Quoted By:

>>17502144

>ork infestation
>home world

ishygddt

Jareddm Wed 11 Jan 2012 20:50:05 No.17502198 Report

Quoted By: >>17503685

>>17502144
It was an older idea based on the idea that since Secundus is the primary port on and off the planet, Ork spores could have been transported. It's probably not an idea that has stood the test of time though.

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anonymous Wed 11 Jan 2012 21:03:03 No.17502279 Report

Quoted By: >>17513710

>>17407058

what is the tample of the star king?

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anonymous Thu 12 Jan 2012 00:40:03 No.17503685 Report

Quoted By: >>17509949

>>17502198

cant imaging a why the nightmares would suffer an ork ifestation when their world is an atomic waste land with little fertil ground.

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anonymous Thu 12 Jan 2012 00:47:02 No.17503751 Report

Quoted By:

>>17407058

i wish this thrend could live forever.

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Anonymous Thu 12 Jan 2012 02:28:03 No.17504938 Report

Quoted By: >>17508157 >>17514457

>mfw spelling and grammar errors everywhere
Please learn to type correctly, guys. /tg/ isn't your average Internet forum. We have a reputation to keep up, after all.

Anyway, I don't think the Emperor's Nightmare themselves really need much more in the way of development. They were almost exhaustively fleshed out, as I recall. Icelus itself is the thing in need of slightly more detail. Please reference the previous threads to make sure you're not going over something that's already been done, though.

Anonymous Thu 12 Jan 2012 06:28:02 No.17508050 Report

Quoted By:

bump

Jareddm Thu 12 Jan 2012 06:38:04 No.17508157 Report

Quoted By: >>17511974

>>17504938
The focus seems to be on updating the Icelus map, which unfortunately never got the detail we originally intended it to have.

Starshadow Thu 12 Jan 2012 07:30:02 No.17508679 Report

Quoted By: >>17509878

>>17502144
Basically the idea was that since Secundus is a ridiculously massive starport. Its not unreasonable to think that some ork spores arrived at some point in the last couple thousand years. That or someone tried to plant them on Icelus intentionally to hurt the chapter. In any case it didn't work. Even orks need food to grow and survive. Ork spores can't grow on salt flats, bare rock, arid sod and sand. Since this kind of terrain makes up 90% of Icelus the orks never got far.

On top of all this Secundus is essentially one titanic box canyon and the only way in or out is to climb over a dry version of K2 or go through a tunnel guarded by PDF armed to the teeth.

Jareddm Thu 12 Jan 2012 09:30:02 No.17509878 Report

Quoted By: >>17510040

>>17508679
So you'd so it's not so much an Ork infestation as it as a bunch of spore clouds and the ocassional gretchin?

Starshadow Thu 12 Jan 2012 09:37:02 No.17509949 Report

Quoted By: >>17512625

>>17503685
This is a common misconception about Icelus. The planet is not a radiated Fallout-style hellhole. Way back in the depths of time Icelus was a temperate world like Earth with green forests and blue oceans. And then something happened, perhaps during the Horus Heresy, perhaps long before.

In essence the planet is extremely dry. Just imagine what Earth would be like if you dried up all the oceans. Over a BILLION CUBIC KILOMETRES of water simply gone. Oceans turn into salt flats. Grasslands turn into arid fields of compacted dirt. This above all else is what makes it so hard to survive. Despite the lack of oceans you can still find water if you know where to look. At there are a couple places on the planet where pools of liquid water can form on the surface.

The Mechanicus and the Inquisition are well aware of how little sense Icelus's climate makes. Which is why they pay a lot of interest to its history.

Starshadow Thu 12 Jan 2012 09:47:03 No.17510040 Report

Quoted By: >>17512007

>>17509878
Outside the hive pretty much nothing grows but the occasional gretchin or stunted feral ork. In the underhive there are a lot more places for orks to grow. But ever since the hive governor instituted a bounty to kill and burn, all of the gangs started hunting them for sport.

Cartography Servitor Thu 12 Jan 2012 12:57:03 No.17511974 Report

Quoted By: >>17512982 >>17514343

>>17508157
Yeah my bad, I'll get to finishing it eventually. Scouts honour. I've just been busy.

We should still make other styles of map off of Rawk's original though. That techy "holo display" style map for one. And a "nomad migration" chart or something like that could really help flesh out trade routes and so on.

Cartography Servitor Thu 12 Jan 2012 13:03:02 No.17512007 Report

Quoted By:

>>17510040
This is pretty much what I always saw it as too. It's hard to completely wipe out orks from a planet but it's equally hard for the orks to gain any foothold on Icelus. A few scattered feral orks are just the cost of doing business as far as the various shipping cartels are concerned.

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anonymous Thu 12 Jan 2012 14:31:07 No.17512625 Report

Quoted By: >>17512674

>>17509949

so... no radioactivity? no signs of an apocalyptic war? no mutants, raiders and mad max car battles? no war for survival without an prospect of an end in the ruins?

(and yes i know there are the nomads and kingdoms but are there any people living of the corpse of the old world?)

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace another abandoned train.jpg, 34KiB, 468x352

Anonymous Thu 12 Jan 2012 14:42:07 No.17512674 Report

Quoted By: >>17512766 >>17512982

>>17512625
There's plenty of radioactivity here and there but it's the pollution of industry rather than the aftermath of war.

The salt flat nomads for the most part do fit the post-apocalyptic mad max-ish setting aesthetic, they just wear gas masks because of pollution rather than weaponized chemicals or whatever.

As for peoples living directly off the infrastructure of whatever Icelus used to be long ago, there's the abandoned northern hive. Some Witiko and nomads make their homes there, as well as potentially some flawed one cults, Nana Wendigo's organization and who knows what else. Plus archeotech and strange secrets in the deep. It was never fully developed and was kinda just left open ended as a plot hook for Dark Heresy campaigns.

There's also the rail culture. That network is mostly a post-heresy development but it's still one of the oldest cultures on Icelus and there are some old, hidden and lost tracks that are several millenniums old.

Anonymous Thu 12 Jan 2012 15:02:06 No.17512766 Report

Quoted By: >>17514343

>>17512674

I love the Icelus rail culture. Would be awesome to have a rail map of Icelus, actually.

Starshadow Thu 12 Jan 2012 15:42:07 No.17512982 Report

Quoted By:

>>17511974
Yay! You're back :D

>>17512674
If you want the Fallout/Mad Max aesthetic the southern nomads definitely fit the bill. They tend to have a lot of pack animals that they use for transportation. But some of them also use ramshackle vehicles cobbled together with all sorts of salvage. The redemptionist raiders are pretty much the same, only they basically pirates and have more vehicles.

One of the biggest of the open plot hooks we came up with was what happened to Icelus in the past that turned it into the planet it is today. Oceans don't just disappear, and there is scattered evidence that the large asteroid belts in the system used to be planets. Whatever historical records that existed were all purged and the surviving data comes to a screeching halt at the Heresy some 10k years ago.

On the surface it sounds like a conspiracy to hide whatever shenanigans were happening back then. But then you dig deeper and find geological evidence shows that the oceans have been missing for much, much longer than 10 millennia. And the Star of Dreams in orbit predates the Heresy altogether...

You end up with a neat open ended setting that can support all kinds of campaigns.

Anonymous Thu 12 Jan 2012 17:43:06 No.17513710 Report

Quoted By: >>17514343

>>17502279

The Temple of the Star King relates to an old legend popular among Icelian natives that refers to their ancestors being seeded on Icelus since before the Heresy. According to the legend, the ancestors of Icelus nomads used to travel freely in space and trade with their ancestral home, until "The Star King" sealed off space and made it impossible to travel through it. This figure is ambiguous; it could refer to the Emperor, or to Slaanesh (since the birth of She Who Thirsts led to the cataclysms that made warp travel impossible and split the domains of Mankind into minor fiefdoms). In any case, the Inquisition has come to no conclusion about the nature of the Star King cult. It remains a hidden facet of life on Icelus, particularly among nomads. The Temple of the Star King is the only remaining ruin of the presumably many shrines to this divine figure that dotted pre-Heresy (possibly Pre-Dark Age of Technology?) Icelus.

Anonymous Thu 12 Jan 2012 19:01:07 No.17514204 Report

Quoted By:

bump

Jareddm Thu 12 Jan 2012 19:21:07 No.17514343 Report

Quoted By:

>>17512766
Pretty much the entire southern hemisphere is crisscrossed with hundreds of rail lines. Just as many working as there are abandoned. The northern hemisphere is fairly devoid of rails, being the homes of the greater variety of nomads if not the greatest number.

>>17511974
Great to see you again!

>>17513710
Speaking of which, anyone remember our two native Inquisitors? We had some great write-ups about the two of them and their relations with Icelus and each other.

anonymous Thu 12 Jan 2012 19:37:06 No.17514457 Report

Quoted By:

>>17504938

sorry, i type from work so i do not have time to spellchek.

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anonymous Thu 12 Jan 2012 21:19:07 No.17515140 Report

Quoted By:

maybe we should vote on the topic of the next thrend before sleep takes this one.

i want to flesh out the cultures of icelus.

Starshadow Thu 12 Jan 2012 21:26:07 No.17515188 Report

Quoted By:

No set topic is needed, we just discuss whatever happens to cross our thoughts. Any contribution is welcome but we do note that we already have boatloads of fluff about the chapter itself.

I've been thinking a lot about the five hives and what they look like. I have a framework for each of them but I need more time to flesh out the detail.

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anonymous Thu 12 Jan 2012 21:28:07 No.17515199 Report

Quoted By:

bump

Starshadow Fri 13 Jan 2012 02:03:06 No.17517426 Report

Quoted By:

The idea for Hive Quintus was that it sat atop a mountain. Originally the mountain was a lone volcano rising out of the ocean. When the ocean vanished the mountain became even taller relative to "sea level". This made it the biggest mountain on Icelus (but not the tallest). When the mountain was made into a hive the top was leveled flat leaving a plateau several kilometers wide. (its a big mountain). The mountainside was then cut into a series of steppes that wrapped all the way around the mountain in concentric rings. Overtop of all this the Mechanicus constructed a massive geodesic dome extending all the way down to the lowest terrace.

Hive Quintus is unique in that there are no spires. Space on the high terrace is very limited and buildings can only be so tall because of the limits of the dome. Each structure is separated by broad avenues, giving the place a bright and airy feel. Many noble houses and other wealthy individuals own vacation residences here. The dome is by all accounts a very beautiful place as the residents take pride in their gardens. By far the largest of which belongs to the main Sororitas Convent located on the north side of the dome.

The main function of Hive Quintus is to grow food. Each ring of the many terraces is planted with dense crops and orchards. The lowest terraces grow grain and are managed by massive combine harvesters that never stop moving. The grain is funneled down chutes and conveyors to waiting trains that reach Quintus over a bridge connecting it to the nearest "shore".

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Anonymous Fri 13 Jan 2012 05:59:07 No.17519635 Report

Quoted By:

bump

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