/tg/ - Traditional Games » Thread #37533853

[302 / 37]

183KiB, 500x500, 1403410773637.jpg

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace

The Hektor Heresy: Successors. Successors everywhere.

Lumey at the beach Wed 21 Jan 22:34:21 2015 No.37533853 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>37534149 >>37539922 >>37542135 >>37544575 >>37562615

The "Hektor Heresy" is an alternate Warhammer 30k/40k which diverts from the canonical timeline at the birth of Slaanesh. Due to different warp vibrations in that unholy event, the Galaxy is substantially - but not entirely - different. Although the project has so far focused primarily on the Imperium and its Space Marine Legions and Chapters, considerable work has been done on new Xenos. We welcome all kinds of contributions, from Battlefleet Gothic rules through to drawfagging.

Come on in!

Wiki starts at:
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_/tg/_Heresy

Aubrey the Grey Wed 21 Jan 2015 22:50:54 No.37534149 Report

Quoted By: >>37534321 >>37534348

>>37533853
ZOMBIE SUCCESSORS

Anonymous Wed 21 Jan 2015 22:59:17 No.37534321 Report

Quoted By:

>>37534149

Moot Successors.

Aubrey the Grey Wed 21 Jan 2015 23:00:21 No.37534348 Report

Quoted By: >>37535053 >>37535107

>>37534149
I'm thinking Nurgle Sorceror, and possibly rubrics.

Lumey at the beach Wed 21 Jan 2015 23:27:13 No.37534907 Report

Quoted By: >>37536025

There were a couple of Successors pitched at the end of the last thread:
>Gore Suns (>>37527981)
I'm pretty much fine with these guys, though the stuff about the Harakien War is over the top. Lumey's quote on the Sons of Fire page makes it pretty clear where he draws the line.

>Eclipse Lords (>>37528235)
Seem fine to me. The work needs some editing and clarity, but we could say that of a lot of material on the wiki.

Brennus, the High King Wed 21 Jan 2015 23:35:10 No.37535053 Report

Quoted By: >>37535107

>>37534348
I was also planning on using Nurglite sorcerers for one of my traitor tribes, though zombie rubrics were not part of my idea.
Hopefully they will be different enough!

Lumey at the beach Wed 21 Jan 2015 23:37:55 No.37535107 Report

Quoted By: >>37535200 >>37535357

>>37534348
>>37535053
What if your Nurgle Sorcerers got together in the chaos of the Great Scouring to form a big warband of happy fun decay times?

Brennus, the High King Wed 21 Jan 2015 23:42:03 No.37535200 Report

Quoted By:

>>37535107
My guys were going to be the smallest, most devastated traitor tribe (they do a lot of daemon summoning), so I bet they'd be happy to join up with them. Especially given the pre-existing close connection between the two legions.

Onyx Wed 21 Jan 2015 23:50:12 No.37535357 Report

Quoted By: >>37535467

>>37535107
>nurglite sorcerer legion
I don't know why but I love this
somehow I suspect it is uriel's fault

Yaotls Wed 21 Jan 2015 23:54:48 No.37535467 Report

Quoted By: >>37535543

>>37535357
Well, we have a Khornate legion that's based around fire as opposed to RIP AND TEAR, a Slaanesh legion that's... well, still pretty much the same as OU, and a Tzeentch legion that's actually based around ambition and plotting as opposed to SPHESS MAJJIK. Add Nurgle using a large degreee of sorcery (afflict plagues upon thine enemies, twist life as you see fit!) as opposed to just "giving you AIDS that somehow makes you immortal and tough as shit even though your body is rotting so it should be the opposite of that" would neatly round out our attempt to make chaos awesome.

Brennus, the High King Wed 21 Jan 2015 23:58:02 No.37535543 Report

Quoted By: >>37535909

>>37535467
I can see Nurgle as being able to offer some very good, subtle, charm spells. After all, he's so friendly! All of his followers are friendly, and happy! Don't you want yo be happy? You'll be happy if you just give in...

Yaotls Thu 22 Jan 2015 00:14:32 No.37535909 Report

Quoted By: >>37536155 >>37536294

>>37535543
He's certainly the most straightforward in terms of rewarding his followers. If you're a righteous follower of Khorne, you get to serve Khorne more! If you're a follower of Tzeentch, you get to be manipulated by demons and feel like you're really the one doing the manipulating! If you follow Slaanesh, everything is absolutely balls to the wall insane, and you'll probably experience every possible sensation. Nurgle, on the other hand, takes followers who are afraid of death and gives them functional immortality, on the condition that they take steps to bring about ruinous entropy (through plagues) to others to push them towards Nurgle. No wonder he's often the most powerful chaos god.

Anonymous Thu 22 Jan 2015 00:19:30 No.37536025 Report

Quoted By: >>37543874

>>37534907
You're fine with the Gore Suns? Yay! Although I would like to ask what exactly about the Harakien War is over the top. I know dozens of listening posts and communications facilities seems like a lot even for a Space Marine commander and his men, but wouldn't something like that be the exact reason he was entrusted with leading his own chapter?

Brennus, the High King Thu 22 Jan 2015 00:24:59 No.37536155 Report

Quoted By:

>>37535909
Nurgle strikes me as being the most confident of the 4. He knows everything will fall into ruin eventually, so he's not worried about "beating" the other 3 powers. So he can afford to be straightforward like that.

Anonymous Thu 22 Jan 2015 00:30:21 No.37536294 Report

Quoted By:

>>37535909
Isn't tzeentch more about giving you the power to achieve all your hopes and dreams? (but unwittingly becoming a pawn). No one goes into it to become the pawn, they all believe they will become the master, case in point Ahriman.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace what the mont'au am i reading.jpg, 26KiB, 451x640

Anonymous Thu 22 Jan 2015 02:19:19 No.37538475 Report

Quoted By: >>37538581 >>37545474

Have we figured out if Tau even show up by this AU's M41?

Anonymous Thu 22 Jan 2015 02:24:53 No.37538581 Report

Quoted By: >>37538817

>>37538475
I'd rather like it if the Tau were kind of like the Caesar's Legion in this timeline

They go from planet to planet, destroying the inhabitant's culture, assimilating then into the Tau and then, the males are forced to become soldiers while the females become slaves

The Tau infantry is made up of various Xeno species while the higher ranks are reserved for pure Tau only

Just my suggestion

Onyx Thu 22 Jan 2015 02:35:53 No.37538817 Report

Quoted By: >>37540166 >>37545946

>>37538581
the tau (as far as I know) are subjects of a huge-but-seperate trade league of xenos lead by plutocratic fat orkoids

Anonymous Thu 22 Jan 2015 03:31:01 No.37539922 Report

Quoted By: >>37540002

>>37533853
I'm so mad I didn't save my outline for a group a Void Angels successors from the cursed founding with super-powered everything but an unhealthy obsession with getting themselves killed in the most glorious ways.

I suppose I should retype them up.

Alexandri, Inferox Thu 22 Jan 2015 03:34:55 No.37540002 Report

Quoted By: >>37541367 >>37541477

>>37539922
GO GO GO GO GO

I believe you can do it.

Like, I was doing a big update for the Silver Cataphracts, 1d4chan fucked up, I lost it all, and I had to redo it all.

Anonymous Thu 22 Jan 2015 03:42:03 No.37540166 Report

Quoted By:

>>37538817
The Compact? They aren't listed, but kroot are, so tau probably should be listed.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace spacemarine.jpg, 57KiB, 400x500

Anonymous Thu 22 Jan 2015 04:41:31 No.37541367 Report

Quoted By: >>37541581 >>37541768 >>37543874 >>37553876 >>37555479

>>37540002
The Angels Valiant are a chapter viewed with respect and awe by the soldiers of the Imperium, but dread by it’s officers. The Angels Valiant are an ill omen, a portent of swiftly approaching doom and military failure, for they only seek out the most desperate battles to satisfy their endless craving to die in the name of the Emperor.

Conceived during the Cursed Twenty First founding, the Angels Valiant were an attempt to create a better Space Marine. Faster, stronger, more enduring, and yet more skilled in combat. They succeeded in this, but not without a cost. The strange rites/organs/tampered geneseed (to be decided what the actual source is) also bestowed upon the Valiant a curse or malady known as the Glorious Burden. The Glorious Burden compels the Angels Valiant to die. They believe that in death they return to the Emperor and live on forever as part of him. This does not, thankfully, result in a urge to commit suicide but instead drives a marine to participate in the most dangerous missions possible.

Using a special set of the Emperor’s Tarot to divine the location of desperate rearguard actions, final stands, and last ditch battles. When they arrive they usually try and convince the current forces to flee so they can hold the foes off or volunteer for the most dangerous assignments available. They then deploy a small strike force to conduct the mission after giving them their last rites.

>Pic related is colour scheme. The white face on the black helmet is my crude attempt at simulating a white skull motif on their black helmets.
(cont)

Anonymous Thu 22 Jan 2015 04:48:16 No.37541477 Report

Quoted By: >>37541663

>>37540002

What was in the update?

Anonymous Thu 22 Jan 2015 04:53:26 No.37541581 Report

Quoted By: >>37541768 >>37543874 >>37553876

>>37541367
The Angels Valiant rarely fight as cohesive military units, preferring to simply charge their foes or hold their ground, allowing their super-super-human abilities to carry the day. Observers have seen marines fighting on with brutal injuries that would fell even a normal space marine. Missing limbs, destroyed armour, and a complete lack of functional weapons fail to stop a Marine Valiant. In fact, the nearness of death often leads the Angel to enter an almost euphoric battle trance, their minds feeling lifted of the Glorious Burden as they run into the Emperor’s arms.

Almost as a temperance to their battle-prowess the marines often fight with rather poor examples of the Astartes power armour and weapons. The vast majority of their relics and even vehicles have been lost and never recovered across numerous campaigns, the forge world assigned to refit them now only providing what is absolutely necessary and allowing the Angels to scrounge for any specialist equipment.

The armour that they do have is often scrawled with ecclesiarchal symbols of the Emperor and various death related fetishes. Skulls, bones, and assorted weapons are prominent features on Marine Valiant armour.

Technically an over-strength chapter with 1200 battle brothers the Angels Valiant are actually made up of an enormous number of scout marines and initiates. This is to attempt to recoup their frequent and many losses as the Glorious Burden only effects full fledged Astartes.. At any given time there are only somewhere between 400-650 actual Space Marines in the chapter. ( This is the tricky bit I’m really busting my balls to figure out. How do I have a space marine chapter obsessed with dying stay around for any longer than one campaign? They’re suicidal not stupid but that only gets you so far.)

That's not everything but I'll expand on them further when people ask questions.

Alexandri, Inferox Thu 22 Jan 2015 04:58:07 No.37541663 Report

Quoted By: >>37541706

>>37541477
It was back before your time, wasn't about now. It was all the organizational stuff, the history, and doctrine.

Anonymous Thu 22 Jan 2015 05:00:55 No.37541706 Report

Quoted By: >>37542094

>>37541663

That sounds really interesting. I look forward to it. If I can help with anything, don't hesitate. I have many, many books on Russian History to leech from.

Anonymous Thu 22 Jan 2015 05:03:38 No.37541768 Report

Quoted By: >>37541829

>>37541367
>>37541581
Anything to say about these guys?

Anonymous Thu 22 Jan 2015 05:06:13 No.37541829 Report

Quoted By: >>37541962

>>37541768

I like the concept, though as you said the obsession with death should kill the chapter off, unless it's just a more morbid 'What happens, happens' view then deliberately seeking the destruction of the chapter.

Anonymous Thu 22 Jan 2015 05:12:42 No.37541962 Report

Quoted By:

>>37541829
Yeah, I definitely forsee that as a problem. I was thinking of it being something like the Red Thirst but for the entire legion and a little more subdued. They go in rounds generally, hence the small strike forces. When they appear to conduct a mission they choose a selected group of battle brothers to go down. They at least know that everyone going at once would get them killed, even if they don't really want to resist it.

So they only send small groups to try and preserve their numbers except in huge scenarios. Like preventing a Tyranid or Ork invasion of an entire important planet.

Alexandri, Inferox Thu 22 Jan 2015 05:19:01 No.37542094 Report

Quoted By:

>>37541706
No, you're not listening. I said before your time, all the stuff that is there was what the update was. The update was months ago.

Octullus Thu 22 Jan 2015 05:20:59 No.37542135 Report

Quoted By: >>37542191

>>37533853
So, I've got a bit of free time now. Any one want to give me a rundown of whats happened so far?

Alexandri, Inferox Thu 22 Jan 2015 05:23:33 No.37542191 Report

Quoted By: >>37542273 >>37567482

>>37542135
So much I don't know where to start exactly.

The fear aspect of your Legion got canned, though. I'm sorry, I liked it, but it seemed no one else did frankly. And they were up on the chopping block to be removed. It was lose that trait or be culled. Still might, if some people had their way.

Gorgers changed, then changed again.

New Legion replaced the Council of Iron, the Bloodbound. Make the Gorgers a little redundant so the Gorgers are being changed yet again.

Tons of updates on the War Scribes and Void Angels. Go read them, they're great work. Same with the Iron Rangers.

Octullus Thu 22 Jan 2015 05:28:14 No.37542273 Report

Quoted By:

>>37542191
Ah, I see. I was there during that fear part and a little while after. I'll certainly take a look at the warscribes and void angeld

Lumey is back Thu 22 Jan 2015 07:24:49 No.37543874 Report

Quoted By: >>37546953

>>37536025
>I would like to ask what exactly about the Harakien War is over the top.
It's not the military accomplishment - that's totally fine. It's actually this bit
>broadcasting the drawn-out, torturous deaths of its former occupants back to the Eldar Lord's forces.
That's a bit more than the Fifth Legion usually do - their rule is that terror should sap the enemy's morale, while this kind of thing is likely to bolster it. I think it'd be fine for the Gore Suns to do this sort of thing after their Founding, though.

>>37541367
>>37541581
Works OK - kind of like our answer to Death Company. Maybe have their Apothecaries be the ones who are somewhat resistant to the Glorious Burden?

Anonymous Thu 22 Jan 2015 08:31:39 No.37544575 Report

Quoted By:

>>37533853
Joke's on you OP my porn was already all videos of the Emperor.

Yaotls Thu 22 Jan 2015 10:20:34 No.37545474 Report

Quoted By:

>>37538475
They don't necessarily have to be there. I personally like the Tau, but their survival in the OU was a fluke. A warpstorm stopped their exterimatus and the Elder probably engineered the ethereal caste to stop them from warring themselves to extinction.

We've already placed a major xenos civilization around where the Tau are in the Eastern Fringe. So if the Tau Empire was going to meaningfully exist, we'd have to develop the history (and fall) of that empire first. Currently, it has no developed history, because everything that isn't SPHESS MARINES is woefully underdeveloped in this project.

Anonymous Thu 22 Jan 2015 11:35:46 No.37545946 Report

Quoted By: >>37546953

>>37538817
I prefer this honestly.

Also, let's think of it this way. Is chaos anywhere NEAR as dangerous a threat in this timeline? If it isn't, then the Eldar have no reason to save the nascent tau from being exterminated by explorators and plant down the ethereals to begin directing them as the ultimate anti-chaos tool in their tool box?

Anonymous Thu 22 Jan 2015 14:08:39 No.37546953 Report

Quoted By: >>37550122 >>37550219

>>37545946
Wait when is THAT implied? Also Chaos is as dangerous as ever here. Not much change in that respect.

>>37543874
I was thinking the Chaplains would be the ones who resist it. They take time to try and direct the passions of their fellow marines, do important religious rites related to dying and whatnot, and largely resist it because they're already a little closer to the ecclesiarchal notion of the God-Emperor.

Okay, so I was just reading through the wiki and I noticed something odd, feel free to shoot me down here, but it seems like there are weird hints that the Black Augurs Haruspex become the Grey Knights.

The armour is supposed to look like the Aegis stuff just with a different helmet, they're all psykers, they use glaives, and the Bloodseer turning on the Voidwatcher seems like the perfect time for them to become loyalists/secret loyalists.

Anonymous Thu 22 Jan 2015 16:46:24 No.37548482 Report

Quoted By:

bomp

Alexandri, Inferox Thu 22 Jan 2015 18:32:11 No.37550122 Report

Quoted By: >>37550219

Bump.

>>37546953
Yeah, Chaos is being built up as the main threat. To the point I feel both Nids and Crons might be getting snuffed a tad.

Lumey is back Thu 22 Jan 2015 18:37:32 No.37550219 Report

Quoted By:

>>37546953
>it seems like there are weird hints that the Black Augurs Haruspex become the Grey Knights.
Probably not, but it's very likely that the AU Grey Knights are trained by a Loyalist Black Augur.

>>37550122
>Nids and Crons might be getting snuffed a tad.
I think we've given their 30k role due respect.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace 1411750920534.jpg, 469KiB, 1024x1516

Anonymous Thu 22 Jan 2015 20:14:08 No.37551687 Report

Quoted By: >>37551718 >>37552090 >>37553777 >>37555479 >>37560242 >>37565239 >>37567482

*****ATTENTION EVERYONE*****

The anons who go by the names Alexandri, Lumey, Wayward Guardsman, Vetrovnak, Arelex, Brennus, and Sebastion Rex have an announcement.

Currently, there is a bit of a disillusion with the project. To put it frankly, it is too bloated.
Too much is spread too thin, overlap is bad in many cases, and there isn't enough progress being made on the Heresy itself.
The story we want to tell is being crushed by the fact we're still paying homage to many of the ideas that simply, don't work in their current forms.

That is why the collection of anons mentioned above have put together a plan, in secret we know, but to handle this delicately. We don't want to put our voice above others, but unfortunately many of us can't feel pride in the project due to its current state.
The plan below is suggested to trim the fat, add content to Legions that need it, rearrange nearly everything, and rebuild. If we go with this plan, it will be a new dawn for Hektor Heresy, one we promise to be full of writing progress unlike that which we have seen before.

The below is a cliffnote version of the proposals. Some are suggestions, others are insisted points required for the plan to work.

-Bloodbound and Gorgers merged
-KoJ removed, elements added to Crusaders and Steel Marshals
-Bulwark added as a subculture to the Heralds of Hektor.
-Sand Keepers are now the Loyalist Sons of Fire element which rather than perish, survive the Heresy.
-Suggestion of merging Bulwark into the Heralds of Hektor, if not, we need to remove another Traitor.
-Suggestion of merging the Children of Armok and the Iron Rangers into a new Legion: The Children of Iron.
-The Eyes of the Emperor are added as a subculture of the Void Angels.
-Finally, the Mastodontii become the Tzeentchian Legion, focusing on some Sorcery, Spiritualism, Change, and most of all, Hope. Mutation powers added and daemon engine forging.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace Emperor_blackwhite.jpg, 155KiB, 519x721

Anonymous Thu 22 Jan 2015 20:16:12 No.37551718 Report

Quoted By: >>37551800 >>37552090 >>37553777 >>37560242 >>37565239

>>37551687
This would result in the following results. Twenty Legions, with the Missing Legions being implied to be so missing, they do not have numeral designation.

LEGEND:
/ denotes a merger, melding of the two Legions utterly
inc. means they are a significant subculture of the Legion, but the parent is still dominant.

*Loyalists*
The Crusaders (w/ some KoJ stuff)
The Entombed
Stone Men
Scions of Europa
Scale Bearers
Silver Cataphracts
Steel Marshals (w/ some KoJ stuff)
Thunder Kings
Void Angels(inc. Eyes of the Emperor)
War Scribes

*Traitors*
Black Augurs
Bloodbound/Gorgers
Children of Iron(Children of Armok/Iron Rangers)
Eternal Zealots
Heralds of Hektor(inc. Bulwark)
Life Bringers
Lions Rampant
Mastodontii
Sons of Fire(inc. Sand Keepers)

Uriel Starikov would be the Legionary Equerry to Merrill himself. His origin story would be altered, but his role in the Heresy would still be pivotal. He would be corrupted to Chaos in his travels to fight the Eldar, eventually leading him to corrupt Aubrey to Chaos. Aubrey would then bring Hektor into the fold, with the three working together to bring about the Heresy proper.

Sebastion Rex would have his own huge chunk of the Heralds to command, the Bulwark Empire being the home base of Hektor. During the Heresy however, Rex would abandon the Heralds and take his supporters with him. As he still followed Hektor, he would be a Traitor still. He would be Hektor's Equerry, and would also have spent time underneath Roman Albrecht which leads to their fateful showdown together.

A comment from Uriel: Uriel feels dismayed, but doesn't want to go against the proposal. He suggests cutting the Children entirely and leaving the Iron Rangers as they are.

Finally, none of this is set in stone, but it is heavily insisted. The purpose now is not to argue, or throw slander, but facilitate a change that makes everyone happy.

Anonymous Thu 22 Jan 2015 20:21:46 No.37551800 Report

Quoted By:

>>37551718
One last note, the Horns of Ruin or the remaining of the Bulwark is currently being debated. Vetrovnak has offered to take them up and their proposal is currently being anxiously awaited.

Lumey Thu 22 Jan 2015 20:39:37 No.37552090 Report

Quoted By: >>37552155

>>37551687
>>37551718
Not sure why this got posted anon, but OK.

>Uriel feels dismayed, but doesn't want to go against the proposal. He suggests cutting the Children entirely and leaving the Iron Rangers as they are.
This is new to me and probably the least-discussed proposal. I'll abstain from voicing an opinion, but it deserves comment.

Anonymous Thu 22 Jan 2015 20:43:50 No.37552155 Report

Quoted By: >>37552227

>>37552090
There was a discussion with Uriel and that was the summary of his thoughts.

Lumey Thu 22 Jan 2015 20:47:49 No.37552227 Report

Quoted By: >>37552356

>>37552155
>There was a discussion with Uriel and that was the summary of his thoughts.
I understand the content. I'm asking what others think of cutting the CoA altogether.

Yaotls Thu 22 Jan 2015 20:55:22 No.37552356 Report

Quoted By: >>37552482 >>37553094 >>37555479

>>37552227
CoA were one of the really interesting concepts that made this setting unique for me, and I'd be sad to see them go entirely.
Now, that's not to say I don't have my doubts about space marines being the best individuals for such a role, but the closet traitors remaining with the loyalists and having elements within the Imperium manipulating events to reduce its effectiveness is something that we definitely shouldn't throw out.

Also, I think that there are definately some legions among the loyalists that are underdeveloped and didn't need to be kept , but I can see that the traitor legions having gotten a lot more love means that we can't decimate the loyalist ranks too much if we want to keep things even.

Lumey Thu 22 Jan 2015 21:03:48 No.37552482 Report

Quoted By:

>>37552356
>closet traitors remaining with the loyalists and having elements within the Imperium manipulating events to reduce its effectiveness is something that we definitely shouldn't throw out
I think that kind of thing was strongly implied in earlier versions of 40k. It wouldn't be a problem to have a named secret society active in the Imperial Army (and later Guard & Navy).

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace PowerandDelusion.gif, 781KiB, 500x250

Uriel Starikov/Children of Armok Thu 22 Jan 2015 21:36:34 No.37553094 Report

Quoted By: >>37553283 >>37553585 >>37553853 >>37554833 >>37555479 >>37556292 >>37561691

[having trouble posting, sorry if double/reposts]

im off to bed, because fucking morning shifts.

I oppose the proposal almost completely.

I just didn't want to make a big running opposition of it, and make everything unpleasant for everyone.

Not because I have nothing to say, but because I'm just tired of your bullshit with me.
I don't like you but I get over it. You don't seem capable of doing the same.

I'm annoyed and dismayed that you not only made a proposal in secret, that I have had quoted as being to "force Uriel out, or to paint him into a corner" and "isolate his writing".

I'm annoyed and dismayed that you misrepresent facts (case in point 'a comment from Uriel'), twist shit, bully people, and throw your weight around, generally sucking the fun out of the project.
A project that has no point except for fun.
I put all that aside to try and work with you, on more than one occasion.

I don't make the project progress better than you do, but people seemed far more content with contributing.
But I don't know everyone's opinion.
At any rate, we did map out the start and end of the heresy, and everyone was on the same page.

I said I'd consider just cutting the Children entirely, because I'd rather see Merrill's legion intact than force his and my own together because you don't like me/my concepts.

And 2 anons working on one legion is unfair to both anons.

Whatever you guys decide I'll see in the morning and go from there.

>But categorically
I don't agree with your proposal.

>>37552356
>For clarity:
the marines themselves just run human spies as handlers or spymasters, they aren't masquerading as humans themselves.

The rank in file are just normal rank in file marines.

Alexandri, Inferox Thu 22 Jan 2015 21:48:13 No.37553283 Report

Quoted By: >>37553388 >>37555479 >>37563162

>>37553094
>I said I'd consider just cutting the Children entirely, because I'd rather see Merrill's legion intact than force his and my own together because you don't like me/my concepts.

I think this mainly stems from a delusion that has plagued the project for too long.

1. 1 Anon for 1 Legion, only way to meaningfully contribute(It isn't).
2. Multiple people tackling multiple aspects of the project together can't work

I want to expand on tons of Imperial Army forces. I want to not stop at the SC or SoF, I want to keep going. Aubrey is taking on the Scions, motherfucking Aubrey!

There is no reason you and Merrill can't work together, making a beautiful melding of your concepts, and work on other things at the same time separate or together.

Also, if we didn't form the proposal in secret, we'd devolve into a shouting match rather than figure out a clean way to bring it about with the least amount of hurt feelings.

Lumey Thu 22 Jan 2015 21:55:08 No.37553388 Report

Quoted By: >>37553585 >>37563370

>>37553283
>implying that shouting matches aren't fun
I didn't tell you so, but I was expecting your secret diplomacy to end in outraged declarations. But it looks like Uriel is focused on me being the root of all evil, so all's well that ends well.

(Anyone on 4chan who says they don't enjoy a bit of internet drama is kidding themselves.)

Kaptain Blakkjawz Thu 22 Jan 2015 22:04:57 No.37553541 Report

Quoted By: >>37553664

Sorry about my absence, some shit came up.

Got a few ideas... A possible guard regiment, Chaos Dreads, and so we know if anything that can fuck with time with ease?

Arelex Orannis, Primarch of the War Scribes Thu 22 Jan 2015 22:07:46 No.37553585 Report

Quoted By: >>37553703 >>37563370

>>37553094
Alexandri shouldn't have posted a quote from you, he should have let you speak for yourself.

Just saying you'd rather have the Children be cut than changes is a tactic of spite. It's throwing requests for change back in people's faces, rather than bend to external pressures. I know this because that's what I did when Lumey and others were trying to sort out where the War Scribes should be in regards to the Codex.

Eventually, I got mad at my perceived marginalization, and pulled the Scribes from the Codex entirely, going "Well you guys fucking handle this then. Do it all on your own, and I'm not going to help, because fuck you, Lumey".

It was spiteful and unhelpful.

So it might be a good thing to try and pull ego, pride, and sense of ownership out of the way for a minute, and just think about things carefully before you make a decision. You don't have to stay, either. But be sure you're speaking from logic, rather than an emotional outburst because Alexandri overstepped his bounds and quoted you oddly.

>>37553388
Internet drama is fine, but we got shit to settle and then move forward on. Ain't nobody got time for that. :P

Kaptain Blakkjawz Thu 22 Jan 2015 22:12:09 No.37553664 Report

Quoted By:

>>37553541
Fuck, I'll be back soonish hopefully.

Lumey Thu 22 Jan 2015 22:14:05 No.37553703 Report

Quoted By: >>37553782 >>37563370

>>37553585
I do feel like things were more progressive back in the old days when the threads would get shit done through to about post 200, then devolve into a brawl so we could come back to the new thread feeling embarrassed and ready to work.

>Codex
I still want the character of Arelex to be really important in the Imperial Reformation as a whole, and with the cast being reduced he's going to have to be more prominent.

Anonymous Thu 22 Jan 2015 22:18:47 No.37553777 Report

Quoted By: >>37553876

>>37551687
>>37551718
I'm fine with this.

Arelex Orannis, Primarch of the War Scribes Thu 22 Jan 2015 22:19:02 No.37553782 Report

Quoted By: >>37554089

>>37553703
I can work with that, as far as the Codex goes. What did you have in mind?

Anonymous Thu 22 Jan 2015 22:22:37 No.37553853 Report

Quoted By: >>37554735 >>37555479 >>37563574

>>37553094

I want the Children to remain, and would gladly have the Mastodons pulled if that means the Children are still around.

After all, I wanted the Stone Men and Entombed combined, as the two legions are almost exactly the same. They're both small Legions with unusual quirks in Gene-Seed that are all but wiped out early into the Heresy that fight the same way and perform the same way.

Zorg on Ice Thu 22 Jan 2015 22:23:47 No.37553876 Report

Quoted By:

>>37553777
This is Zorg.
>>37541367
>>37541581
I like t.

Lumey Thu 22 Jan 2015 22:36:22 No.37554089 Report

Quoted By: >>37555479

>>37553782
I think he might have to be more proactive during the discussions about breaking up the Legions. My understanding of the status quo is that Darius Cyaxares persuades the "big four" at Terra (Alexandri, Albrecht, Gaudin, and Lumey) to agree to laying down their arms to avert a possible power struggle between them. Without Darius there, it's possible that Roman could play peacemaker but I think he was lukewarm on the Codex. Brennus is singularly unlikely to propose putting more trust in Chapter Masters. Golgothos and Onyx are anti-Codex guys anyway, and not exactly known for their tact.

Obviously, Arelex shouldn't be the persuasive diplomatic guy, but he does have a lock on the "voice of reason".

>I've calculated it out, and this resolution seems most likely to succeed...
Part of that would be suitably flattering the Imperium's warlords by giving them authority over the shape of the new Chapters, but Arelex would have a very good idea of what they'd lay out.

Lumey Thu 22 Jan 2015 23:17:32 No.37554735 Report

Quoted By: >>37554821

>>37553853
>Stone Men and Entombed
>both small Legions with unusual quirks in Gene-Seed that are all but wiped out early into the Heresy that fight the same way and perform the same way
Most of those are quite superficial complaints. (You could make a similar list for, say, the Silver Cataphracts and Void Angels - both large legions with a ruthless reputation that spend most of the Heresy on the sidelines and fight and perform the same way.) I'm sensitive to them having a very similar story in the Heresy - though note that Onyx was not the one who put the Stone Men on Isstvan V - but that needs to be looked at anyway. After all, we've reduced the cast and seriously changed the opening shots of the Heresy.

Anonymous Thu 22 Jan 2015 23:22:39 No.37554821 Report

Quoted By: >>37555014 >>37555123

>>37554735

I see no reason why we need both of them when one or the other would suffice.

This is the simple test: What does this legion bring to the Heresy that is unique and important that no other Legion does? If you can't answer that, then there's a problem.

Yaotls Thu 22 Jan 2015 23:23:09 No.37554833 Report

Quoted By: >>37554922 >>37555123 >>37555479 >>37563574

>>37553094
Well with that clarification, I really don't have much to object with in the case of the kids. But my objections were never strong enough that I though tit shouldn't be in the setting anyway, just a matter of personal taste. I mean, some of you guys didn't want me to make dickfencing rape cyborgs, but it still happened.

So anyway, are we just going with the proposal? Because I don't really see much discussion about it. I'm fine with cutting legions that don't have active anons and pilfering the good ideas for other legions, but legions with active anons should have some sort of consent before we mess up things we've already established.

Come to the xenos side, Uriel. We have less drama because nobody cares about developing the xenos side in the slightest.

Anonymous Thu 22 Jan 2015 23:28:23 No.37554922 Report

Quoted By: >>37555015

>>37554833
Something this big can't happen in a single day I think.

Maybe we should have a strawpoll and host it for the week.

Lumey Thu 22 Jan 2015 23:32:42 No.37555014 Report

Quoted By: >>37555117 >>37555298

>>37554821
>What does this legion bring to the Heresy that is unique and important that no other Legion does?
I can answer that quite easily for the Entombed (3spooky9me) and the Stone Men (the Rogue Trader feel). Not so sure about Void Angels, maybe they should be cut?

Anonymous Thu 22 Jan 2015 23:32:39 No.37555015 Report

Quoted By:

>>37554922

True. This is the single biggest shakeup in this thing. And a lot of compromises need to be had.

Anonymous Thu 22 Jan 2015 23:39:44 No.37555117 Report

Quoted By: >>37555220

>>37555014

Is 3spooky9me supposed to mean they use fear and terror tactics? Or Psychological Warfare? They have to be more then the Legion with the gimmiky Primarch that magically creates the Worship of the God-Emperor.

And the Stone Men are so isolated from anything they might as well not even be there. They have nothing to do with any other Legions, or battles, or even Primarchs. They're utterly on their own in their Rogue Trader Cluster contributing very little to the wider setting.

Zorg on Ice Thu 22 Jan 2015 23:40:03 No.37555123 Report

Quoted By:

>>37554821
Mind, that the OU had something more like one for each side.
>>37554833
I've got something alien, just deciding on organisation and looks.

Lumey Thu 22 Jan 2015 23:46:28 No.37555220 Report

Quoted By: >>37555275 >>37555298

>>37555117
>tfw Void Angels not worth defending.
BRB, getting a little liquor to pour out as I delete their pages.

Anonymous Thu 22 Jan 2015 23:49:56 No.37555275 Report

Quoted By: >>37555385 >>37555535

>>37555220

I never said a word about the VAs, because they have never been in doubt. Get rid of them, and we nave no Mainline Legion, not centre, no savior of the Imperium. They're so entwined that deleting them would kill the entire story. The same simply cannot be said for either the Stone Men or Entombed. They're nowhere near as intrinsic to the plot. And that is the problem.

Arelex Orannis, Primarch of the War Scribes Thu 22 Jan 2015 23:51:01 No.37555298 Report

Quoted By: >>37555535

>>37555220
>>37555014
I'm slightly confused now.

Anonymous Thu 22 Jan 2015 23:56:22 No.37555385 Report

Quoted By: >>37555535

>>37555275
Roman Albrecht is the savior of the Imperium, the mainline become of the Steel Marshals, with the Silver Cataphracts producing a ton of Chapters without particular love for their origin culture, willing to take on new facets and remodel themselves around new tactics.

Brennus, the High King Fri 23 Jan 2015 00:00:03 No.37555479 Report

Quoted By: >>37555557 >>37555616 >>37563574

So, the die is cast, the cat's out of the bag. Very well.

>>37551687
I definitely agree that there is bloat in the project, and removing several of the dead legions is not a bad idea. That's why I agreed.

>>37552356
>>37553094
I definitely do not want -let me repeat, do NOT want- to lose the Children entirely. I was a fan of the idea that Uriel and Merrill be twin primarchs of some variety. I don't quite know how that would work, but Merrill seemed to have a good idea. Honestly, in my heart of hearts, I don't want to cut ANY Legions, but I have to agree that trimming might be needed.

What Alex says here: >>37553283
I think is a good point. This is one reason I'm in favor of Merrill's idea. Other people may not care for it, but if the project goes through it has my vote.

>quotes
Rngh. I don't agree with that idea in. the. slightest. I like your contribution to our work, and I want to keep you as a part of it.

>>37553853
I would hate to lose the nicest primarch. But then, I hate to lose ANY of our guys.

>>37554833
My understanding was that we were putting it to a vote.

>>37541367
This is a pretty fun idea, like the Death Company writ large. But, like you, I really can't say how they could last for any longer than a campaign or two. Perhaps it only happens after a certain number of years active?

>>37554089
Yeah, Brennus would have a flashback to the problems with his tribes, and probably be arguing for a strong leader like pre-crusade Emps, out in the fight.

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 00:03:33 No.37555535 Report

Quoted By:

>>37555275
Hold on, though. You could level the same "not intrinsic to the plot" arguments against a host of Legions. I think the Stone Men and the Entombed are on roughly the same level as the Scale Bearers are and the Eternal Zealots were before you got down to it. They're distinctive, but they need work. A good first step would be taking the Stone Men off Isstvan V and putting them on Terra (in place of the departed Sand Keepers). Play on the Stone Men as builders and defenders of fortifications - there are hints in that direction already. Have their gigantic flagship blow itself up in the face of the Traitor fleet because we do need a little Michael Bay at that stage.

>>37555298
Don't be.

>>37555385
Roman is a pretty cool guy. I could get into that.

Brennus, the High King Fri 23 Jan 2015 00:04:58 No.37555557 Report

Quoted By:

>>37555479
Or, rather, early crusade.

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 00:07:41 No.37555616 Report

Quoted By: >>37555733

>>37555479
>strong leader like (Early)-crusade Emps, out in the fight.
That's Roman Albrecht. Everyone wanted that guy to be Emperor after the Emperor!

Brennus, the High King Fri 23 Jan 2015 00:13:48 No.37555733 Report

Quoted By: >>37555791

>>37555616
Brennus then is probably a big Roman supporter. It will take some kind of talking to get him to accept the Codex; though maybe I could see him accepting it after serving as commander of non-TK units during the scouring (if that's a thing that would happen).

Haha, Brennus is backing a Roman. I'm probably the only one who will chuckle at that

Alexandri, Inferox Fri 23 Jan 2015 00:14:06 No.37555738 Report

Quoted By: >>37555874 >>37563574

The problem I think we're running to with the Codex and the savior of the Imperium is that, no one likes Lumey.
Sorry, but it's true. He's too different from the other Primarchs, with suspicion and fear lauded upon him far more than praise.
On the other note, this is true of Alexandri as well.
Gulliman was diplomatic, a great statesman, and a fine general. We simply do not have that amazing combination present. To me, there is no clear, perfect answer.

The savior of the Imperium is Roman, the mainline Marines are the VAs as their Primarch survives and they can make fresh gene-seed from him but runner up is the SC, and at last we have the writer of the Codex be Arelex.

Brennus is too weak to oppose the idea, same with Onyx and Golgo. Just as the OU Primarchs who went against the Codex were too weak at that point to fight, or were just like Russ and never, ever gave a solitary fuck.

Alexandri, Inferox Fri 23 Jan 2015 00:17:17 No.37555791 Report

Quoted By: >>37555866 >>37555874

>>37555733
Oh by the way, in the proposal, Bohemond would be a high commander, possibly Equerry of Brennus. He would be slayed at Istvaan type conflict by Aubrey, and it would be seen as a stepping stone to the High King himself.

Sadly Aubrey never got his showdown, but his Legion religiously make war on his sons. Those who survived the conflict and followed Bohemond rename themselves the Storm Bringers during the Second Founding, to honor Bohemond's title of Stormbringer.

Thoughts?

Brennus, the High King Fri 23 Jan 2015 00:20:30 No.37555866 Report

Quoted By: >>37555911

>>37555791
Not bad; he wouldn't be an Equerry, but it WOULD solve the dearth of ideas I've had for a 1st Commander (or maybe another loyal tribe). I guess this would mean then that it was the TKs who atomize Lazarus then?

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 00:21:17 No.37555874 Report

Quoted By: >>37555911

>>37555738
It's cool, we're cutting the Void Angels anyway. I mean, what's the point in them just being the Legion who survives?

>>37555791
>Bohemond
>Celtic
Tartar please.

Alexandri, Inferox Fri 23 Jan 2015 00:24:09 No.37555911 Report

Quoted By: >>37555980 >>37556006

>>37555866
It would be Bohemond leading out the orders, so Brennus might not have been the one to carry out the Emperor's orders.

Why not an Equerry tho? That's the highest and most trusted rank a commander can reach in a Legion.

>>37555874
The joke stopped being funny at exactly the first time.

Simple matter is we'll have an imbalance, 9 Loyalists and 10 Traitors. Unless you mean to make the Eyes take your place in which case HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Please go back to posting cats.

Brennus, the High King Fri 23 Jan 2015 00:29:19 No.37555980 Report

Quoted By: >>37556013

>>37555911
Well, right now the story is that my Equerry is the one who betrays me and leads the internal rebellion. I can always switch the bits around, but the commander of one of the Tribes would be a near independent force. Brennus usually gives them wide leave to complete their objectives, as long as they aren't way out there.
I suppose I could also have more than one equerry; maybe that's another part of why Ferdiad turns, thinking his position is less significant.

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 00:31:08 No.37556006 Report

Quoted By: >>37556128 >>37556133

>>37555911
Seriously: I'm starting to wonder what other unseen riders there are in this proposal. I remember discussing carving the KoJ between the Crusaders and Marshals, not sending Bohemond off to the Thunder Kings. I remember a discussion about bringing the "peripheral" Loyalists closer into the plot, but I don't recall a pledge to revisit the Codex.

Uriel's complaint about misrepresentation doesn't look so coincidental now.

Alexandri, Inferox Fri 23 Jan 2015 00:31:27 No.37556013 Report

Quoted By: >>37556128

>>37555980
Bohemond died, new Equerry acquired, betrayal happens.

Brennus, the High King Fri 23 Jan 2015 00:37:37 No.37556128 Report

Quoted By:

>>37556006
Yeah, I'm just now finding out about that myself. My legion and Aubrey's are supposed to be close, this feels...well, it seems like a bad pick on ol' Empy's part.

>>37556013
Ferdiad is kinda Brennus' best friend from Alessia though; he's like Luther. Although...perhaps I could give him command of the second tribe, Bohemond could come from the Sacred Band...Ferdiad is jealous, and feels like Brennus' "second choice" when Bohemond dies, which tears it for him and he finally foments his rebellion, which is enacted post-Ostium. But it still doesn't solve the problem of our legions liking each other pre-heresy.

Arelex Orannis, Primarch of the War Scribes Fri 23 Jan 2015 00:37:56 No.37556133 Report

Quoted By: >>37556218

>>37556006
You and Alexandri should probably discuss things in real time on IRC. The 4chan post lag seems to be clouding communication. It'd be bad if anyone started anything without full info.

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 00:43:19 No.37556218 Report

Quoted By: >>37556296

>>37556133
>You and Alexandri should probably discuss things in real time on IRC
Can't do that right now, but the thing is that I did discuss things with Alex on IRC. I thought I understood what was being put forward and that's why I agreed to back his proposal. I'm not feeling so confident right now and I think an open discussion is more likely to inspire trust.

Vetrovnak Fri 23 Jan 2015 00:47:29 No.37556292 Report

Quoted By: >>37556365 >>37558287

>>37553094
>I said I'd consider just cutting the Children entirely, because I'd rather see Merrill's legion intact than force his and my own together because you don't like me/my concepts.
I don't particularly like the idea of cutting the CoA entirely. Personally I want to keep them around but it is true they are kinda similar (not that I think that matters). If I had my way I'd see the CoA and the Sand Keepers stay.

Now on the matter of the Horns of Ruin: I do have an idea that I have pitched on IRC that seems to be going over well. I won't be able to throw together a "complete proposal" for a bit as I have real life throwing its weight around which needs to be dealt with first but I will go ahead and list the basics.
The legion will has a bit more to their philosophy than "biggest bomb is best bomb"; destruction is a means to and end, not an end unto itself. They believe that mankind should be united, but simply putting everyone under one government is insufficient. To really connect people you need to do it at a more fundamental level than that. To achieve that you need cybernetics to allow for something like direct mind to mind interface. So the legion has a heavy emphasis on cybernetic augmentation, not because they think flesh is weak but because it's the only way for two minds to connect. The mass destruction comes in because anyone who doesn't want in on this glorious unity should be destroyed utterly so they have no chance to poison the unity with their dissension. Their fall to chaos isn't hard. Aubrey likely points out to them that it provides a solution that it would allow for the mind to exist separate of the body to form a gestalt consciousness of everyone in the network where all are one.

Oh yeah. They also loathe the AdMech with the fire of thousand suns.

Arelex Orannis, Primarch of the War Scribes Fri 23 Jan 2015 00:47:40 No.37556296 Report

Quoted By:

>>37556218
4chan's having crazy-ass lagging issues for me and others, like Brennus.

Posts are rather difficult at the moment, I'm afraid. That's why I suggested IRC.

Alexandri, Inferox Fri 23 Jan 2015 00:52:16 No.37556365 Report

Quoted By: >>37556466

>>37556292
Why have them hate the AdMech? I mean one it doesn't seem explained, and two it's kind of the War Scribes thing.

Alexandri, Inferox Fri 23 Jan 2015 00:56:22 No.37556434 Report

Quoted By: >>37556487

I'd like to say apologies to Brennus, I got the Steel Marshals mixed up with the Thunder Kings. Please ignore my statements about Bohemond.

Vetrovnak Fri 23 Jan 2015 00:57:52 No.37556466 Report

Quoted By: >>37556530

>>37556365
Because they don't want people telling them how to use their cybernetics and the use of servitors is grating on their philosophy.

Last I checked the Scribes try not to rustle the AdMech. The Horns wouldn't really put any effort into their sheet contempt for them.

Brennus, the High King Fri 23 Jan 2015 00:59:35 No.37556487 Report

Quoted By: >>37556773

>>37556434
S'all good, no harm done. Maybe I should get my butt cracking on a first captain of my own.

Arelex Orannis, Primarch of the War Scribes Fri 23 Jan 2015 01:03:41 No.37556530 Report

Quoted By: >>37556600 >>37556701

>>37556466
The Scribes, they had a rather LARGE rustle, and then their Primarch basically forced the issue to a close by picking a strategic moment to die.

They and their Successors still don't *like* the Admech, but they respect their Primarch enough not to act on that resentment. And as long as they don't try to undermine the Admech by sharing tech, they are allowed to at least keep what they have "within the family".

And the Admech don't like them much either (though they have also largely forgotten the events, having other things to worry about. Only the sons of Arelex still bear that raw nerve), but the Scribes are largely self-sufficient, so it's not a huge problem that the Mechanicus half-asses the usual supply lines for Marines.

Vetrovnak Fri 23 Jan 2015 01:08:08 No.37556600 Report

Quoted By:

>>37556530
Ah.

Well since the Ruin goes traitor anyway I don't see it as being much a problem in the long run.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace the-jimmies-rustle-softly.jpg, 139KiB, 600x796

Yaotls Fri 23 Jan 2015 01:12:29 No.37556701 Report

Quoted By: >>37556749 >>37556773 >>37556811

>>37556530
I wish we had more of the Scribes-Admech conflict on the wiki. It's hard for someone who hasn't been in the threads 5ever of the IRC at all to figure out what the deal is.

Alexandri, Inferox Fri 23 Jan 2015 01:15:18 No.37556749 Report

Quoted By: >>37556811

>>37556701
It was decided months ago. It was a point of big debate how far the conflict went.

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 01:17:04 No.37556773 Report

Quoted By: >>37558265

>>37556701
>It's hard for someone who hasn't been in the threads 5ever of the IRC at all to figure out what the deal is.
This. In general, this.

>>37556487
"Aeron", after the Welsh river and the supposedly associated deity of death and war.

Arelex Orannis, Primarch of the War Scribes Fri 23 Jan 2015 01:19:50 No.37556811 Report

Quoted By: >>37557100

>>37556749
>>37556701
I think he's asking for me to write some more events of that conflict (which is a good idea, it is fairly core to the late-era Scribes after all), not alter the scope of it.

Although with all these changes in the works, I may go back and edit things anyway.

Yaotls Fri 23 Jan 2015 01:35:52 No.37557100 Report

Quoted By: >>37557274

>>37556811
Aye, I just want to know what the fuck happened. So far, all I can tell is that the Admech and the Scribes got in a scrap, and that the Scribes lost. There's also something about how the Admech 'wanted to ensure their dominance in the Imperium'. While I do think that makes sense, seeing as the Scribes and the Admech kind of fill the same niche (and we need the Admech to be the dominant party in that niche if we want to preserve grimdark) I just think that open warfare between major imperial factions requires a bit more explanation visible.

Alexandri, Inferox Fri 23 Jan 2015 01:48:09 No.37557274 Report

Quoted By:

>>37557100
Don't know why Arelex hasn't replied, might be the posting issues.

But there isn't open war. It borders open war, and Arelex decides to have himself die with orders to the Scribes not to start anymore shit in a move to show the AdMech they are acting subservient to their wishes from now on.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace 1390667787321.jpg, 2MiB, 3538x3424

Onyx Fri 23 Jan 2015 01:53:53 No.37557375 Report

Quoted By: >>37557436 >>37557625 >>37563759

>KoJ getting the axe

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 01:57:33 No.37557436 Report

Quoted By: >>37557729

>>37557375
Hey man, at least the proposal to force the Stone Men into the Entombed and forget them has been held up.

Alexandri, Inferox Fri 23 Jan 2015 02:09:37 No.37557625 Report

Quoted By: >>37557857

>>37557375
They live on in other Legions, in the Steel Marshals and Crusaders, as their air element.

Also, a strawpoll! About Bohemond.
http://strawpoll.me/3465173/r

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 02:16:50 No.37557729 Report

Quoted By: >>37557857

>>37557436

If we did that though we could keep the KoJ.

Either way he still keeps a Legion.

Alexandri, Inferox Fri 23 Jan 2015 02:25:04 No.37557857 Report

Quoted By: >>37557891

>>37557625
Fixed the link:

http://strawpoll.me/3465173/

>>37557729
>Remove Onyx's Legion for an under-developed Legion with a Primarch who does exactly one thing: Die to Aubrey
>Onyx still gets to keep his Legion
>Whut

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 02:27:13 No.37557891 Report

Quoted By: >>37558060

>>37557857
Maybe we should have a poll for the main proposal?

Alexandri, Inferox Fri 23 Jan 2015 02:36:41 No.37558060 Report

Quoted By: >>37558102 >>37563759

>>37557891
Alright.

***STRAWPOLL FOR PROPOSAL***

http://strawpoll.me/3465330

***STRAWPOLL FOR PROPOSAL***

http://strawpoll.me/3465330

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 02:39:56 No.37558102 Report

Quoted By: >>37558129

>>37558060
Not sure what option #2 means.

Alexandri, Inferox Fri 23 Jan 2015 02:41:34 No.37558129 Report

Quoted By: >>37558242

>>37558102
Regular proposal except for the CoI not being a think, we work with either Children of Armok or Iron Rangers.

Zorg on ice Fri 23 Jan 2015 02:44:28 No.37558190 Report

Quoted By: >>37558265 >>37558287 >>37558398

If I'm reading the list right, it's ten loyalists and nine traitors.

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 02:46:35 No.37558242 Report

Quoted By: >>37558398 >>37558449

>>37558129

Keep them both. I've already advocated removing the Mastodons to accommodate them.

Brennus, the High King Fri 23 Jan 2015 02:47:54 No.37558265 Report

Quoted By: >>37558398

>>37558190
I am pretty sure you are, cause that's what I get too.

>>37556773
Hey yeah, I can do somethin with that. Thanks.

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 02:48:56 No.37558287 Report

Quoted By:

>>37558190
New Horns of Ruin (>>37556292) or Old Bulwark proposed as #10 on the Traitor side.

Alexandri, Inferox Fri 23 Jan 2015 02:55:14 No.37558398 Report

Quoted By:

>>37558242
Do you not realize the Mastodontii are the perfect Tzeentchians? We can't remove them.

>>37558190
>>37558265
Currently waiting on a RAWK to produce a Horns take over proposal, to see if we'll have the Bulwark or the Horns of Ruin as the 10th Traitor Legion.

Vetrovnak Fri 23 Jan 2015 02:58:00 No.37558449 Report

Quoted By: >>37558519 >>37563759

>>37558242
I am personally for keeping both and adding another loyalist legion to keep to scales balanced. Personally I want the Sand Keepers but with no anon to take them (and I can't take them myself) all I can do is wish.

Alexandri, Inferox Fri 23 Jan 2015 03:01:51 No.37558519 Report

Quoted By: >>37559519

>>37558449
20, not 22.

Vetrovnak Fri 23 Jan 2015 03:51:33 No.37559519 Report

Quoted By: >>37559649

>>37558519
Then to put it at a "palatable number" of 25 we tack on 3 lost legions at the end or something.

Alexandri, Inferox Fri 23 Jan 2015 03:58:31 No.37559649 Report

Quoted By: >>37559852 >>37559888 >>37563759

>>37559519
The whole point of this is to downsize, sacrifices will be have to be made. I'm willing to lose the Silver Cataphracts if people want another Legion to stay. And that's not like Lumey's joke above, I'm being serious about this. I just want to get the chaff off already so we can get to work.

Yaotls Fri 23 Jan 2015 04:09:30 No.37559852 Report

Quoted By:

>>37559649
NOOOO NOT MY SPACE RUSSIAN HUSBANDO LEGION

They pander to my pragmatism fetish. Where else am I supposed to go for practicality in a 40k fanfic?

Vetrovnak Fri 23 Jan 2015 04:11:20 No.37559888 Report

Quoted By:

>>37559649
It still does all that.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace BanQHA4.jpg, 161KiB, 894x894

Golgothos the Fervent Fri 23 Jan 2015 04:30:29 No.37560242 Report

Quoted By: >>37560335 >>37560696 >>37560706 >>37561170

>>37551687
>>37551718
This is dangerous. I agree that the project has become a bit bloated, that we have several redundant ideas and a few conspicuous blind spots. I agree that these things should be dealt with and I agree with most of your proposals to deal with them.

However, I think your intentions are less than pure. You met in secret instead of talking in threads about solutions. You deliberately didn't communicate with people who would oppose you until you gathered enough names in support. This is politicking, plain and simple.

You don't like Uriel. You don't like that he does things you say no to. You don't like his ideas, you don't like him as a person, but most importantly you don't like that he ran the threads for a long time and can't be controlled by you. This proposal is about establishing control. You want something out of this project, you want progress, completion, and the ability to show the project off to others, and damn any of the anons who get in your way. You don't give a damn if we have fun, you just want us to produce content and feed your vanity.

This proposal does good things. It condenses what I agree has become a bloated canon. However, it comes from an insidious intention. It establishes you as someone capable of cutting out anyone you don't like, and anyone who doesn't follow your instructions. When I brought my concerns up on IRC, you immediately replied with a not-so-subtle threat of "The Entombed and the Stone Men were nearly cut too."

DJ TZ Fri 23 Jan 2015 04:36:24 No.37560335 Report

Quoted By: >>37563759

>>37560242
Damn, playah.
Golgothos comin out with the hard truth of things!

How about some BGM for the occasion?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk2U3Cm4rQM

Kaptain Blakkjawz Fri 23 Jan 2015 04:47:29 No.37560520 Report

Quoted By:

Not touching the in-fighting. Both Uriel and Lumey appear competent to me. That's more that I can ask of myself, but I digress...

There is fat to trim, but I can't really gauge how much.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace DancinStalin.gif, 2MiB, 330x275

Alexandria Fri 23 Jan 2015 04:56:55 No.37560696 Report

Quoted By:

>>37560242

Vetrovnak Fri 23 Jan 2015 04:57:15 No.37560706 Report

Quoted By: >>37561134

>>37560242
>However, it comes from an insidious intention
That's a bit of an overstatement.

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 05:22:32 No.37561134 Report

Quoted By:

>>37560706
Don't you mean understatement?

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 05:24:15 No.37561170 Report

Quoted By: >>37561722

>>37560242
Dude, take your meds and re-read what you've written here. The accusations you've thrown at Alexandri are just ridiculous.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace ithurts170.png, 83KiB, 309x285

Alexandri, Inferox Fri 23 Jan 2015 05:49:11 No.37561575 Report

Quoted By: >>37561722

I'm going to play some vidya real quick, but I think it should be said none of this plan was Lumey, or anyone else's idea except my own. I'm the one who went to talk to anons in private because I didn't want to cause a huge shit-fest with accusations exactly like what's being done now thrown about. I just wanted a clean, smooth transition that'd help everyone. Yes, I know meeting in private is suspicious, but I had the best of intentions please. I want to take pride in this project, and it needs to be better than what it is to do that. There is too much overlap, too many Legions, and we can't keep all the threads between them meaningfully together.

With twenty Legions, it's far easier.
But some people aren't happy with twenty, they want twenty-two.
Others want 18.

This isn't easy, there isn't a clear, or even right answer.

Bickering amongst ourselves won't help anyone and will only see it go into tatters.
The merging of the CoA and IR into the CoI was a suggestion, nothing more, nothing less. Fact of the matter is some people wanted the merger, some people wanted just the CoA removed completely.
I went with the merger to keep Uriel in, to help ideas stay and remain rather than go to dust.

Can we all work together now, please?

Sebastion Rex, the Gatekeeper Fri 23 Jan 2015 05:55:17 No.37561691 Report

Quoted By: >>37563759

>>37553094
Uri, baby.
You were tired today.
We can talk more tomorrow.
For now, no more fighting.
Please.
If it's not a huge deal to you, please don't post until we can talk more tomorrow.
Do it as a favor to me, okay?
Think of the children
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTapLR6uau8

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace 1406878241732.png, 26KiB, 257x391

Golgothos the Fervent Fri 23 Jan 2015 05:57:11 No.37561722 Report

Quoted By: >>37561915 >>37563759

>>37561170
>The accusations you've thrown at Alexandri are just ridiculous.
Alexandri cares more about finishing the project than having fun, and he doesn't give a flying fuck if anyone else is having fun. He wants the project to be his way, and people who don't give him what he wants (read: Uriel) stand in the way of that.

The fact that this was discussed in secret until he could gather a voting block seals it for me. He wants Uriel out. He wants to be able to push the project inexorably forward. He wants control.

I'll state this unequivocably: If the kids get cut, I'm deleting the Entombed pages and leaving. I want no part in a project that isn't about fun. Uriel has fun creating things, and I don't give a damn if anyone thinks they don't fit or are redundant. The only legitimate reasons to cut a legion are if nobody is working on them or if the anon himself says he wants to. Fuck the project. Fuck completion. Fuck being accessible to new readers. Fuck having a coherent canon. Write what you want, and enjoy doing it, everything else is bullshit.

>>37561575
>. I just wanted a clean, smooth transition that'd help everyone.
How does this help Uriel? How does this help the people interested in and working on some of the other legions you're cutting? Suddenly Uriel can't write anything without Merrill. Suddenly Merrill can't write anything without Uriel. Suddenly two cool dudes who contribute a lot and have fun are contributing a lot less and having a lot less fun. Is that worth you being able to take pride in something?

Sebastion Rex, the Gatekeeper Fri 23 Jan 2015 06:12:29 No.37561915 Report

Quoted By: >>37562077 >>37563759

>>37561722
Golgo.
I don't want Uriel to leave.
I wouldn't support the proposal if I saw it as a way to drive Uri out.

>Write what you want
I support this, mostly.

>Uri can't write without Merrill, etc
Actually, I believe they would be able to act independently of each other. Think of them like the Wonder Twins; they can be great by themselves, but awesome together. Legions are a big thing, and I think everyone underestimates the diversity inherent within such a construct.

Uriel need not necessarily answer to Merrill, despite Merrill being the Primarch. Independent control, unified front.

>Alex
I know he comes off as harsh, but I honestly believe he wants to do right here.
Uriel and Lumey will continue to butt heads, but I don't believe Uriel has much against Alex.
My discussions with them will continue tomorrow. We can make this work and we can all be happy again.

Please.

You agreed that it "condenses....a bloated canon," yes?
I won't let Uriel leave, nor Alex, nor Lumey.
We've come too far to break up over something that makes sense, but is being seen by all parties as something it isn't.

No one is driving anyone out.
If they leave, it's their own prerogative.
But I really hope we can all calm down and get along.

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 06:23:27 No.37562077 Report

Quoted By: >>37562296 >>37562344 >>37562523

>>37561915

All the Legions considered for removal are those who either don't add anything, or have never been touched. Sand Keepers are an example. They have very little going for them before this. Same with the Horns of Ruin.

I want the Children to remain. I've already said a few times that I'm willing to see my own legion go bust to accommodate this.

We need to streamline things. The vast number of Legions made it unwieldy, and that must change, regardless of the other aims of the Project. If I have to cut my own work to fit that in, then so be it.

Just so long as my Knights remain. I'm really attached to them. No Waifu

Golgothos the Fervent Fri 23 Jan 2015 06:35:39 No.37562296 Report

Quoted By: >>37562348 >>37562360

>>37562077
>All the Legions considered for removal are those who either don't add anything
They added something for the anons who wrote them. That something is called fun.

>They have very little going for them before this. Same with the Horns of Ruin.
All a Legion needs to have going for it is an anon who likes them and wants to write about them.

>We need to streamline things.
We don't.

>and that must change,
No it mustn't

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace 4869wug489678gwna.jpg, 93KiB, 640x400

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 06:38:46 No.37562344 Report

Quoted By: >>37562523 >>37563759

>>37562077
>All the Legions considered for removal are those who either don't add anything
I don't think any contributions to this project are worthless. Every one of the ideas that got cut or shut out previously had something going for it. That's why I've tried to resurrect so many of them (granted, in a slightly different form). The problem isn't that people have wasted their time, it's that some ideas don't fit together.

Now, there's a philosophical difference on what to do when that happens. Some folks are going to say that the author's rights are absolute and nobody has the right to amend their vision. Others are going to maintain that there should be quality control. Me? I just think we should try to bring some order out of the chaos of creation so that we have a shared set of ideas that can feed one another, rather than scattered contributors doing their own thing.

Golgothos the Fervent Fri 23 Jan 2015 06:38:52 No.37562348 Report

Quoted By: >>37563759

>>37562296
>No it mustn't
Not to say that it must not, just to say that it...needn't...must?

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 06:39:47 No.37562360 Report

Quoted By: >>37562464 >>37562471 >>37562523 >>37563960

>>37562296

26 Legions just leads to too much confusion, too many overlaps, and not enough focus on each individual Legion and where they fit into each other.

Why do we have so many legions who do almost nothing in the Heresy? Because there's not enough room for them all.

And you are right, those Legions added something for the anons who wrote them. And most of those anons never stuck around, leaving those legions orphaned and untouched. Why not get rid of the dead wood?

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 06:51:04 No.37562464 Report

Quoted By: >>37563960 >>37566369

>>37562360
>Why do we have so many legions who do almost nothing in the Heresy?
Because most people's idea of what to do in the Heresy is "go to Terra". When the tedium of all the Loyalists fighting on Earth became apparent, people got lost. Similarly, the planning for the Heretics tends to be stating that Horus was dumb and Hektor is smart and - job done, time to go home.

Clearly, narrating a galactic conflict is difficult, but the main issues can't be as simple as the number of Legions. Otherwise we'd cut to ten and it would all fall out very easily.

Golgothos the Fervent Fri 23 Jan 2015 06:51:22 No.37562471 Report

Quoted By:

>>37562360
>26 Legions just leads to too much confusion, too many overlaps, and not enough focus on each individual Legion and where they fit into each other.
I agree, but confusion and overlap are better than diminishing active anons.

>Why not get rid of the dead wood?
As I said earlier, cutting abandoned legions is fine with me. In leaving, anons make implicit statements that it's not a big deal to them.

Not everything you want to cut is dead wood. Some of it is just blocking your view.

Sebastion Rex, the Gatekeeper Fri 23 Jan 2015 06:54:30 No.37562523 Report

Quoted By: >>37562728

>>37562077
>Considered for Removal
Knights of Justice
Bulwark
Horns of Ruin
Sand Keepers
So...these do not add anything?
I agree about the Sand Keepers, though; I feel they will do well in the Sons.

Horns are currently being overhauled by Vetro, though I also have ideas for that.

>>37562344
I agree with this, but to be fair, just cause something has something going for it doesn't mean it's good. Many were empty concepts or very vague descriptions, while others were essentially exact copies.

Which is why I love that we've started taking some of the older ideas and adding them back in. It feels right to not waste them.

>>37562360
Overlap isn't always bad, but in this case, it can be.

>Dead wood
Buuuuut we're keeping some of the dead wood and cutting back fresh branches.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace 1420854957432.jpg, 17KiB, 197x256

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 07:01:50 No.37562615 Report

Quoted By: >>37562677

>>37533853
>"I DELETED YOUR PORN, AND REPLACED IT WITH VIDEOS OF THE EMPEROR."

.....

I'm ok with this.

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 07:07:08 No.37562677 Report

Quoted By: >>37565477

>>37562615
Just realized that I saved the small version of the pic.

I'll show myself out now.

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 07:11:20 No.37562728 Report

Quoted By: >>37562794

>>37562523
>just cause something has something going for it doesn't mean it's good. Many were empty concepts or very vague descriptions, while others were essentially exact copies.
Sure, though I'd say that even the "empty" concepts were still good ideas - they just didn't fit into the broader whole, sometimes to the extent that they unbalanced things. I think a good example of imbalance was the Gorgers as a second Khornate Legion, which eventually led to their creator proposing other setting changes in order to fit his vision. (Sons of Fire as Chaos Undivided, or drafting a second Cult Legion for each of the other Gods.) Not every contributor goes to that logical end, but people can usually see them. And this question keeps cropping up when reading the misfit contributions, "Hey, are you saying we should all bend for you?"

I mean, Golgothos is basically saying that we can ignore that question and ride off into solo interpretations of the Hektor Heresy, but I don't think even he really believes that. The guy keeps coming back to collaborate and discuss ideas, after all.

So when you look at the proposed changes to Legion status (and it's not the most important thing), just ask yourself that. What's the least disruptive thing to do? Change these ideas, or accept the changes that they dictate to the rest of the project?

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 07:15:12 No.37562773 Report

Quoted By: >>37563960

Speaking of changes.

http://strawpoll.me/3408688/r

Time to give the man his moniker back?

Sebastion Rex, the Gatekeeper Fri 23 Jan 2015 07:17:03 No.37562794 Report

Quoted By: >>37562817 >>37563210 >>37563960

>>37562728
Oh yes, of course.
I'm not saying they didn't deserve to be here or anything.

>Least disruptive
While I do agree, I feel there can also be a middle-ground. Ideas can be altered slightly while keeping the original feel.
For example, I would be fine with Sebastion as an Equerry to Hektor or as a Primarch. Both are fine for me. My idea changes, but not to the degree where it loses my entire point.

Middle-ground is key here.

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 07:18:48 No.37562817 Report

Quoted By: >>37562891 >>37563960

>>37562794
>middle-ground
I'm not sure about that. Nathanog was just wrong when he suggested that we should have two Legions for each Chaos God and it wasn't a matter of finding a middle-ground.

Was it?

Sebastion Rex, the Gatekeeper Fri 23 Jan 2015 07:24:22 No.37562891 Report

Quoted By: >>37563021

>>37562817
Of course he was.
It's not ALWAYS middle-ground.
Somethings just don't make sense.

What I mean is that it doesn't always have to be "My idea works and you can't change it" or "Your idea must be sacrificed for the good of the project," yeah?

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 07:32:10 No.37563021 Report

Quoted By: >>37563160 >>37563210

>>37562891
>What I mean is that it doesn't always have to be "My idea works and you can't change it" or "Your idea must be sacrificed for the good of the project," yeah?
But that's not what I'm proposing. I'm saying that in order to make sense of the collection of individual ideas, we have to make changes here and there.

I mean, you know my track record. I don't like throwing away people's ideas in this project. I've put a lot of effort into salvaging them, by changing them into something that will fit in. If Mechanist Warrior guy comes back and is like, "Why'd you get rid of my guyz?!?!" I can at least say to him, "Well, listen, we didn't have enough to go on with them as a Legion but we kept them as a Chapter." (http://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_Crusaders#Mechanist_Warriors)

Sebastion Rex, the Gatekeeper Fri 23 Jan 2015 07:41:38 No.37563160 Report

Quoted By:

>>37563021
Lumey, pally.
I wasn't disagreeing with yah.
I know that's not what you're proposing, silly.

Also
>Battle Cry "Let's ride!"
I giggled a bit.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace you have my attention.gif, 963KiB, 500x247

Uriel Starikov/Children of Armok Fri 23 Jan 2015 07:41:45 No.37563162 Report

Quoted By: >>37563254 >>37563358 >>37563368 >>37563932

>>37553283
You can couch your proposal in respectable terms but you are actively pushing to sideline an active anon, and hinder another to do so.

You say people can make meaningful contributions working together, and I agree.
But you are using that argument with me to cut down my involvement by half, while giving examples of you wanting to work on other projects, including your own, solo.

1 legion for 1 anon, IS meaningful. This is a group project. It stops being so if one or 2 anons have all the say in how things should and shouldn't be.

In an ideal world having 26 anons would not only give us a varied and robust thread discussion, due to the different experiences, dis/likes, and areas of expertise all coming together to give us a rich end product.

Multiple people tackling multiple aspects isn't and has never been an issue for me, except in one instance:
Anons parking themselves over multiple legions and not making way for new anons to add to the project.

>Inb4 you did it too
I instantly gave up the Bulwark and the IR when an anon came to claim them.
And made it clear that my ideas are by no means sacred - that they should have their own freedom to create.

By contrast, you pushed the Bloodbound/Gorgers merger to LCK, who seems fine with it.
But when he proposed something that wasn't exactly what you wanted, you literally flipped out at him because it wasn't what you wanted.

> if we didn't form the proposal in secret
>least hurt feelings
pick one.
You went with secrecy, and as Golgo pointed out, politicking.
Thats because your primary concern with this isn't the projects wellbeing, but to isolate or get rid of me.

I've had multiple quotes, some exact, said by you and Lumey about me and your plan with the proposal.
So don't act like you've been fair or objective here.

I hold up progress/kill fun on occasion, but you went out of your way to throw the whole project into flux, just to get rid of someone you don't like.

>cont

Golgothos the Fervent Fri 23 Jan 2015 07:44:11 No.37563210 Report

Quoted By: >>37563278 >>37566369

>>37563021
>I'm saying that in order to make sense of the collection of individual ideas, we have to make changes here and there.
I totally agree with this sentiment. Collaboration is good, and just writing whatever you damn-well please isn't the way to make good writing. But not all changes are the same, and it's important to realize that the authority is ultimately with the author.

This is what worries me. Alexandri is attempting to take authority away from the authors. It sets an alarming precedent. Soon we'll be changing legions completely without the consent of the anons who created them and are actively posting. Soon Alexandri or Lumey or whoever will decide that no, the Entombed worshipping humans is silly, and let's just edit that out. Why bother asking Golgothos? Even if we do ask him, it doesn't matter, because the project as a whole is more important than his creative license.

Uriel wants his Legion to be a Legion. He does not want to merge with the Iron Rangers. That should be the end of the discussion, full stop. In contrast, Sebastian-anon is fine with the idea of becoming an equerry of Hektor (>>37562794) and that means we can move forward with discussing whether or not that's a good idea. Sand Kings anon is gone, and while I think the Legion is kickass and shouldn't be cut, I'm open to discussing it and figuring it out.

Sebastion Rex, the Gatekeeper Fri 23 Jan 2015 07:47:30 No.37563254 Report

Quoted By:

>>37563162
Uri, please listen to me?
Please, m8?

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 07:48:51 No.37563278 Report

Quoted By: >>37563404 >>37563960

>>37563210
>authority is ultimately with the author.
I don't agree with that. Authority in a group project lies with the group. That's why and how we shut down Nathanog.

And in that sense, the "precedent" you're talking about has been set. What the group wants, the group gets. Different people get to advocate for their own ideas, but the consent of the majority is what determines the way forward.

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 07:53:27 No.37563358 Report

Quoted By: >>37563960

>>37563162
>You say people can make meaningful contributions working together, and I agree.
>But you are using that argument with me to cut down my involvement by half, while giving examples of you wanting to work on other projects, including your own, solo.
You're implying that people who never worked on a Legion were never meaningfully involved. Even if you feel that way about your part in the project, you might want to reconsider what you're saying about Vetrovnak, Aurrie, etc.

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 07:53:52 No.37563368 Report

Quoted By: >>37563960

>>37563162

What's the biggest issue you have with the cutting down to 20 legions? We have some Legions that are untouched, and others that people are willing to sigh off on, so what would the biggest problem be?

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace frank.gif, 885KiB, 245x150

Uriel Starikov/Children of Armok Fri 23 Jan 2015 07:53:54 No.37563370 Report

Quoted By: >>37563391 >>37563672 >>37563932

>>37553388
>Uriel is focused on me being the root of all evil
You aren't the root of all evil.
I've said and implied many times you are an asset to this project.
But if you expect anyone to believe that you and Alex went into a private (read not even #HektorHeresy) irc channel, and only alex spoke on this, that's just insulting.

I'd also point out i've repeatedly tried to work with you, find a way to compromise with your views, and even tried to patch shit up with you.
You have no interest in doing such a thing.

Also you posted insults and your views on me directly to the thread, as well as continuing on behind the privacy of the irc.

By the by: I wasn't *fired* from lecturing

You are correct about the drama though.

>>37553585
>Spite
It isn't entirely spite, although I'd be lying to myself and you if i said there was none at all.

My logic is: Merging the CoA and IR forces a big rewrite, and a lot of cutting for Merrill and I.
It would also water down the distinct personality both have to do so.
To that end, I'd rather see Merrill's concept preserved in full than cram mine in.

I don't want to leave. I started these threads and have enjoyed my time here, even when Nathanog was here!

But Alex and Lumey want me "gone or my writing isolated" to paraphrase the direct quote

I am being logical, or at least objective. They made it personal.

>Lumey writing the Codex
I saw his logic about librarians, but it also applies to him writing it too.
Darius is the best fit.
Although i have no idea why Arelex couldn't just have omitted the librarian stuff as I suggested and have Darius force the psyker stuff as an addendum.

Also LUMEY: for the record
Roman wasn't lukewarm on the Codex, he was against it, as per Romans post to the thread.

>>37553703
>things were more progressive back in the old days when the threads would get shit done
I agree.

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 07:55:27 No.37563391 Report

Quoted By: >>37563960

>>37563370

I do not want to merge the CoA and the IR either. They're both distinct enough to remain in as is. By consequence we have others that do not have the same distinction, or the same level of development that can get the axe.

Golgothos the Fervent Fri 23 Jan 2015 07:56:09 No.37563404 Report

Quoted By: >>37563551 >>37563570 >>37564091 >>37564799

>>37563278
>I don't agree with that. Authority in a group project lies with the group. That's why and how we shut down Nathanog.
Nathanog shouldn't have been "shut down" and he's not the bogeyman you make him out to be.

>And in that sense, the "precedent" you're talking about has been set. What the group wants, the group gets. Different people get to advocate for their own ideas, but the consent of the majority is what determines the way forward.
If that's going to be the case I'm seriously considering just leaving.

>so what would the biggest problem be?
Cutting the legion of an anon who is active, creates good content, and doesn't want to be cut, just because of personal differences.

Sebastion Rex, the Gatekeeper Fri 23 Jan 2015 08:05:20 No.37563551 Report

Quoted By:

>>37563404
To be fair, Nath was sorta really unpleasant.
He was my first experience in the project.
I got here about a week or two before he left.
His parting words were "Btw, Lumey a shit" which is just plain childish.

>Authority
Both of you are right, man.
I believe the author has final say over his work, but he can also listen to the rest of the group.
Vice versa, as well; if someone REALLY REALLY doesn't want something to happen to their creation, it's kinda hard-assed to do that something.

In that case, I advocate a middle-ground, as stated.

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 08:06:43 No.37563570 Report

Quoted By: >>37563653 >>37566369

>>37563404
>If that's going to be the case I'm seriously considering just leaving.
That's always been the case. Sorry if you misunderstood: a group project involves making compromises with other people. You give up your unrestricted right over your own creation in order to have a restricted right over a larger creation.

I mean, for all that Uriel and I have disagreements about many things - a great many things - I don't think we disagree on that.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace cats.gif, 867KiB, 245x245

Uriel Starikov/Children of Armok Fri 23 Jan 2015 08:06:58 No.37563574 Report

Quoted By: >>37563694 >>37567482

>>37553853
Thank you for the sentiment, but I think the Mastodons add to the setting too. I don't see why they need to be cut also.

I have a compromise proposal of sorts to add in a bit.

But the SM and Entombed are only similar in those respects, its the same as the VA being similar to the Ultras, but both are still distinct.

>>37554833
>Come to the xenos side, Uriel
What makes you think I haven't already...?
But in due time man.
One thing I'm not trying to escape from is the fact I need to finish off my legion.

>>37555479
>I don't want to cut ANY Legions
>trimming might be needed
Well the problem areas, Ie legions not adding much, are the Eyes, and LCK is happy merging the Gorgers with the Bloodbound, and as you may know, has an interesting take on that.

With those changes, fat is trimmed, we don't have to change much at all, and people aren't shafted, and neither is the project.
I prefer to keep all 26 legions, as new anons do come by to contribute but we don't have spots.
Also because it makes the split 13/13 which I find amusing.
But 12/12 split seems fine. Cuts down those that don't add, and leaves us the ones that do add, also meaning the outline of the start and end of the heresy we laid out is more or less unchanged as no major players are cut.

>>37555738
>The problem I think we're running to with the Codex
This is a good point, I've been trying to say this but I think its been interpreted as an attack in hindsight.

Lumey does have immense power coming back, he has an intact fleet and a big legion.
And he turned up just at/after the moment of need

But he was exiled and came back, defying the orders. His strength and the fact people hate him would add interesting elements of trust and power to his dynamic as liege. IE power politics and tension between the remaining leadership.

Roman is meant to be the savior, and is far more palatable, but Lumey beats him there.
People can (IC) argue views, but they can't escape the fact it was Lumey not Roman.

Golgothos the Fervent Fri 23 Jan 2015 08:14:03 No.37563653 Report

Quoted By: >>37563694 >>37564190

>>37563570
>That's always been the case. Sorry if you misunderstood: a group project involves making compromises with other people. You give up your unrestricted right over your own creation in order to have a restricted right over a larger creation.
Fuck no. The Entombed are ultimately mine, not ours. Input is valuable. Communication and collaboration are necessary. But change goes through the author. If I have an idea, I'll run it past the group, and I'll value what they say. If people point out that the idea is flawed, or flat out dumb, I'll usually accept that. Conversely, I welcome suggestions about the Entombed. Things they can do, ideas to add to their character, or things that don't quite make sense. You don't, however, have the right to change anything about them without consulting me. Period. Same goes for every other legion.

Vetrovnak Fri 23 Jan 2015 08:15:23 No.37563672 Report

Quoted By: >>37563719 >>37564190

>>37563370
>But if you expect anyone to believe that you and Alex went into a private (read not even #HektorHeresy) irc channel, and only alex spoke on this, that's just insulting.
I've got logs that say otherwise.

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 08:17:42 No.37563694 Report

Quoted By: >>37563710 >>37563982 >>37564190

>>37563574
>I think its been interpreted as an attack in hindsight.
In this case, you're just wasting my fucking time because you didn't read what's on the wiki. But let's go over it.

Firstly, Roman is gone by the time of the Codex. He's not available to write it, because he disappears in the Crucible. (At least based on what we have right now. IF that changes then we need to consider knock-on effects.)

Secondly, Lumey doesn't write the whole thing: see http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Legiones_Astartes_(Hektor_Heresy)#Doctrine_and_Reforms
So if you're saying, "people wouldn't trust Lumey's worldview" - they don't have to, it's Gaudin who tells Space Marines how to conduct themselves. All that the Primarchs of the Reformation need to ask themselves is, "Was this Lumey guy effective? Do we want to read his art of war?"

>>37563653
Dude, I don't know what I can say. If everyone else here said that the human worship thing didn't make sense and had to go, it would have to go. Nobody is demanding that you stay, but you can't dictate to the group like you're trying to.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace why have you done this to me.png, 66KiB, 156x177

Golgothos the Fervent Fri 23 Jan 2015 08:19:59 No.37563710 Report

Quoted By: >>37563872 >>37563982

>>37563694
>Dude, I don't know what I can say. If everyone else here said that the human worship thing didn't make sense and had to go, it would have to go
This sentence genuinely, deeply offends me to the point that I think you're a bad person for saying it.

Sebastion Rex, the Gatekeeper Fri 23 Jan 2015 08:20:39 No.37563719 Report

Quoted By: >>37563736

>>37563672
Not sure if they say otherwise meaning the logs support Uriel's claim or don't.

Vetrovnak Fri 23 Jan 2015 08:22:04 No.37563736 Report

Quoted By: >>37563788 >>37564190

>>37563719
From what I can read Uriel is under the impression that it was Lumey who set all this up rather than Alex. I had more to do with this proposal than Lumey and I was high on painkillers at the time.

Uriel Starikov/Children of Armok Fri 23 Jan 2015 08:23:54 No.37563759 Report

Quoted By: >>37563788 >>37563872 >>37563932 >>37565239

>>37557375
I think the work you were doing on them was really cool.
It needs to go onto the wiki and not just the thread, but I'm for keeping the KoJ as I think you gave them a lot of flavour.

I like me the Top Gun imagery too!

>>37558060
>strawpoll
seems most people disagree with aspects.
But there are things than need doing.
I do think we should give it a few days *at least* though

>>37558449
I want to keep the SK too.
The Sons were babylonian/akkadian, or used to be.
The SK are persian/post-islam caliphate style
I think those are cool.

>>37559649
Cutting the Phracts is a bad idea. Space Russians is cool

>>37560335
haha

>>37561691
sorry bit late now.

>>37561722
>If the kids get cut, I'm deleting the Entombed pages and leaving.
The kids aren't being *cut*, but merged with the IR.
I'd just rather preserve Merrill's concept than do that, as the IR are distinct. Adding in the CoA would just turn them into a generic notAlphaLegion (bot legions embody different aspects of the AL), and they deserve better than that.

Regardless of if I left, I'd rather you stayed. The Entombed are cool man. The project would be hurt by your departure, and would suffer from losing your view on things.

I agree about the cutting should only happen if someone wants to be cut, or if they are abandoned and no-one has an interest in writing for them

>>37561915
>I believe they would be able to act independently of each other.
Maybe we could, but its not fair to Merrill to have his own creative license limited by me.

>>37562344
>I just think we should try to bring some order out of the chaos of creation
I agree. We have different end goals and methods of doing that, but i agree with the sentiment.
I care about the setting being consistent, it shouldn't be scattered contributions of people doing their own thing, but people also need license to actually write their own things. Otherwise this becomes an unpaid job, writing to please a few anons.

>>37562348
I understood

Sebastion Rex, the Gatekeeper Fri 23 Jan 2015 08:26:33 No.37563788 Report

Quoted By: >>37564190

>>37563736
That's definitely a stumbling block.
Everyone needs to take things at face value, like I do.
Everyone thinks everyone hates everyone.

>>37563759
Eesokay.
We will speak tomorrow.
For now, I sleep for about 3 hours.

>Creative license
I dunno, man.
I don't see how it's limiting, really.

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 08:31:01 No.37563854 Report

Quoted By: >>37563892

At least this is being talked about now, which is a good thing in my book. It's a big shake-up, as big as the End Times for Warhammer Fantasy, but one which I hope will be just as effective in revitalizing the project. And I agree, we need several days to debate and process this. I suggest everyone goes into the IRC when they can. I will once I get on my work computer later on.

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 08:32:41 No.37563872 Report

Quoted By: >>37563903 >>37564190

>>37563710
>pic related, it's how many fucks I give

>>37563759
>people also need license to actually write their own things. Otherwise this becomes an unpaid job, writing to please a few anons.
This is a straw man, though. Group consensus is hardly ever levelled at anyone and in practice contributors have vast freedom of action.

Slyte Fri 23 Jan 2015 08:35:48 No.37563892 Report

Quoted By: >>37563933

>>37563854
The fuck you on about? Comparing this to the End times is like comparing an ingrown toenail to an amputation.

Golgothos the Fervent Fri 23 Jan 2015 08:36:25 No.37563903 Report

Quoted By: >>37563933

>>37563872
>This is a straw man, though. Group consensus is hardly ever levelled at anyone and in practice contributors have vast freedom of action.
Except for the part where you're trying to do it right now.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace XENOS.jpg, 46KiB, 480x349

Alexandri, Inferox Fri 23 Jan 2015 08:38:49 No.37563932 Report

Quoted By: >>37563961 >>37564040 >>37564317 >>37564437

>>37563162
Uriel we started last summer.

We've had people come and go and probably exhausted nearly all the writefags that /tg/ has to offer. We still get new people coming in and the latest don't want Legions. And you just said that no anon who worked on a Legion really contributed.
Vetro?
Aurrie?
DRAWFAG?

I'm not trying to make you look bad, I'm just saying you need to realize what you say as you say it because it comes across as dismissive. Your entire tone comes off as dismissive to this whole idea.

Nothing stops you and Merrill from taking on other Legions, or just working on individual facets of the same project that do not require work, or from working on the timeline in general, writing out fluff you both agree on, etc.

And I did want to scrap the Phracts. Or merge them with the War Scribes or Void Angels. Everyone told me that was a bad idea.
When I pitched the idea for the Children of Iron, people seemed to like it as a good compromise, because the fact is there are many people who don't like the Children of Armok in their current iteration. It's as simple as that. Others do tho, so is it I should listen to here?
Should I have picked neither? Well, I chose both. This was the attempt.
And I asked Sebastion to get that across, that this was an attempt at compromise with you to make everyone happy.

>>37563370
I'm sorry to say as I am the greatest authority on myself I can indeed say that Lumey sat around in a room while I sprung off ideas from me and Lore and he just went 'kay'.

>>37563759
But you two haven't actually talked. I know for a fact Merrill was on for a short time today and you didn't get much of a chance to speak with him. Either today or yesterday. Can you now give a good try at it? How do you know it would end up like the Alpha Legion? If you two both actively avoided it, I think you could mange fine.

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 08:38:50 No.37563933 Report

Quoted By:

>>37563892
Lore isn't exactly good at comparisons. He has other virtues, though.

>>37563903
Are you staying here because you refuse to be bound by the group consensus that group consensus rules... or were you just making empty threats before?

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace waste of talent.gif, 2MiB, 245x178

Uriel Starikov/Children of Armok Fri 23 Jan 2015 08:40:48 No.37563960 Report

Quoted By: >>37564033 >>37564065 >>37564126

>>37562360
>Why do we have so many legions who do almost nothing in the Heresy?
Which legions do almost/nothing?
The Bulwark and VA are out of it completely.

Not everyone will be central to the battles/events, but that doesn't remove them from the narrative.

>>37562464
This

I did try coming up with a detailed plan for the heresy in general, as did Merrill for the defense of Terra, but it's been largely ignored.

>>37562773
Only if they become Greek/Roman.
Otherwise it looks lazy and stands out

>>37562794
>middle ground
compromise is fine, but cutting the bulwark back to chapter status is a waste of potential and I personally believe diminishes the project.

Not to mention it would destroy the entire Crucible arc we have long established.

>>37562817
I do agree
but I considered his proposal first, it wasn't without merit, but ultimately wasn't a good fit

He was an asshole, but doesn't mean he had no good input

>>37563278
That is a bit different though.
People have to tone down things, but they still have free will and it is still their responsibility.
Thats the crux of it, free-will comes with responsibility to use it in a considerate manner where possible.
Compromises have to be made sometimes.

And group project is fine until people start playing politics and ordering people about.

Also, Nathanog was shut down more for being an aggressive and rude asshole who made the project unpleasant for people to work in.

>>37563358
that isn't what I'm implying at all.
Not even close to it.

>>37563368
because it takes out huge areas we already established, or had a working framework we all understood.
It's harming the project, not helping it.

>>37563391
The Eyes and the Bloodbound are under represented and abandoned. The Gorgers and Bound were proposed as being merged, and LCK likes the idea. That leaves the Eyes to go and we have 24 legions with distinct identities, and as a bonus, very little of the bit of established timeline we have is preserved

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 08:40:48 No.37563961 Report

Quoted By: >>37564065

>>37563932
>he just went 'kay'.
Hey, I did object to fusing the Stone Men and the Entombed, and proposed doing away with the Eyes of the Emperor instead. Then Octullus came into the thread and it got really awkward.

Slyte Fri 23 Jan 2015 08:41:41 No.37563982 Report

Quoted By: >>37564033

>>37563710
>>37563694

This case seems comparable to Marvels ownership of characters rather than the individual artists. While legally sound, it rings of douchebaggery.
Perhaps you should ask yourselves if that's the organization you wish to be.

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 08:45:54 No.37564033 Report

Quoted By: >>37564437

>>37563960
>Only if they become Greek/Roman.
That's fine as a view to put forward but you haven't been dictator in this project since Thread #2.

>that isn't what I'm implying
Then why should it affect your involvement whether you have exclusive right to develop a Legion or not?

>>37563982
If Marvel was owned and operated by the artists, you'd be right.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace 1406859890505.jpg, 27KiB, 500x466

Golgothos the Fervent Fri 23 Jan 2015 08:46:56 No.37564040 Report

Quoted By: >>37564091

>>37563932
>I'm not trying to make you look bad,
pic related

>Nothing stops you and Merrill from taking on other Legions, or just working on individual facets of the same project that do not require work, or from working on the timeline in general, writing out fluff you both agree on, etc.
Something IS stopping him from doing what he actually WANTS to do, however.

>the fact is there are many people who don't like the Children of Armok in their current iteration. It's as simple as that.
I'd like to see a list of people that feel that who don't have personal grudges.

>Are you staying here because you refuse to be bound by the group consensus that group consensus rules... or were you just making empty threats before?
I have no idea what this sentence means. I mean you and Alexandri are trying to build group consensus to shove Uriel out.

Alexandri, Inferox Fri 23 Jan 2015 08:49:15 No.37564065 Report

Quoted By: >>37564437

>>37563960
The Bulwark would be 60,000 strong members of the Heralds. They'd have all their fluff in tact as it was, just this time being tied closely to Hektor and his Legion's story.

A Chapter is a disservice, that's only a 1,000 Marines? You can't have the same story, even those rejected Legions brought back aren't entirely the same as they were. But the Bulwark won't get that treatment if we got that route.

Also Nathanog ran off some of the best anons we ever had. I refuse to acknowledge anything he ever did as good, because I can't see anything he said as good. Even you admit the reasons he was shut down, so I don't know why you said 'even he contributed meaningfully', because he didn't. The fact we kept him around as long as we did is just embarrassing. He got angry at me for the damn name of the SC, remember? Nearly ran me out of because of it, he was intent on focusing on this one insignificant detail when I wanted to know if my idea for a Primarch worked.

>>37563961
Last time I tried mentioning you saving the Entombed and Stone Men when I had three other anons wanting them cut it was seen as a manipulation attempt.

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 08:51:48 No.37564091 Report

Quoted By: >>37564167 >>37564606

>>37564040
>I have no idea what this sentence means.
This (>>37563404) is you, right? You told us that you were seriously considering just leaving if the consent of the majority is what determines the way forward. Nobody else is against that principle. There's some requests to use that power responsibly, but that's it.

So again: are you staying because you want to prove how big a rebel you are, or were you just making empty threats before?

Vetrovnak Fri 23 Jan 2015 08:54:30 No.37564126 Report

Quoted By: >>37564606

>>37563960
Uriel, drop by the IRC channel some time. It'd be much more easy to untangle this mess in real time rather than through posts. Or well, at least to make some headway on it.

Golgothos the Fervent Fri 23 Jan 2015 08:58:51 No.37564167 Report

Quoted By: >>37564177 >>37564258 >>37564328 >>37564799

>>37564091
>So again: are you staying because you want to prove how big a rebel you are, or were you just making empty threats before?
I'm saying it because I mean it. I'm saying it because a creative writing project without creative freedom is worthless. I'm saying it because maybe you consider me valuable enough that it might convince you to rethink your position. I'm saying it because I give a damn about the Entombed, the Children of Armok, the Void Angels, the Silver Cataphracts, the Vetrovnak, etc, but I don't give a flying fuck about the Hektor Heresy.

The authors, the creative process, the ideas, THOSE are the things that are important. How they fit together is minutia. You see two legions being vaguely similar as an irreconcilable problem that must be addressed. I don't see it as a problem at all.

Vetrovnak Fri 23 Jan 2015 09:00:13 No.37564177 Report

Quoted By: >>37564189 >>37564606

>>37564167
Golgothos, you realize that how it all fits together can spur on the creative process right? In a vacuum all of this is worthless. It's the interactions that matter and make all this what it is.

Golgothos the Fervent Fri 23 Jan 2015 09:01:31 No.37564189 Report

Quoted By: >>37564328

>>37564177
How it fits together is just another fun thing to write about. It's not paramount, it's not the be all end-all. It's not any more important than its individual components.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace get a load of this guy.gif, 2MiB, 500x381

Uriel Starikov/Children of Armok Fri 23 Jan 2015 09:01:33 No.37564190 Report

Quoted By: >>37564258 >>37564328

>>37563653
I more or less agree with this sentiment.

But I'm an advocate of robust discussion.
I mean we're all here to talk about our little creations at the most base points of this project.

>>37563672
I've been left in the dark the entire process. But what i have been told is that they contacted eachother on a private irc channel at some point.
I know they spoke privately. (which by the by isn't a problem)
I'm not saying its all lumey. I've been told its all Alex before Alex's post saying the same.
But given how close they both are, I am deeply suspicious of Lumey's innocence in any involvement.
Maybe I am wrong.
Regardless, he fully supports it.

>>37563694
>attack in hindsight
I mean, when I suggested theres more to the situation than Lumey turning up and laying down the codex for people to follow, it may have been construed as an attack, given your recent statement about me always attacking you.
Regardless of our shit, Lumey is an interesting character.

>Roman in the Crucible
My mistake and apolgies

I'm not saying they wouldn't trust Lumeys world view. That was largely irrelevant to me

>>37563736
>Uriel is under the impression that it was Lumey who set all this up
I think he played a part, but I'm not under the impression it was him
It'd have been handled a lot more subtly if he had direct involvement with it

>>37563788
>Everyone thinks everyone hates everyone.
I don't, I know 2 people definitely don't like me, as they said so. But I don't really care if people like me or not.

>Creative license
in other words, Merrill's scope is hamstrung by me and my input on the legion.
It'd end up being 2 legions crammed into one more or less.

>>37563872
Hypothetically, that might be true, that doesn't give you, me, or alex any right to dictate to others.
Discussions need to be had, and arguments put forth, but ultimately things need to be objective.
If something is ultimately ruled against, alternatives should be proposed to compromise between both parties

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 09:07:27 No.37564258 Report

Quoted By: >>37564291 >>37564313 >>37564606

>>37564167
>I'm saying it because maybe you consider me valuable enough that it might convince you to rethink your position.
Obviously I don't, otherwise I wouldn't be asking you why you're still hanging around.

>>37564190
>that doesn't give you, me, or alex any right to dictate to others.
What about Golgothos? Does he have the right to dictate to the group and say that his right over his creation is absolute and he can do whatever he wants, regardless of what the rest of us think? This is an important question!

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 09:10:57 No.37564291 Report

Quoted By: >>37564313 >>37564334 >>37564606

>>37564258
As regards his legion? Yes. As regards how his legion affects the rest of the universe? No, because that infringes on other people's creations.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace Untitled.png, 9KiB, 739x439

Golgothos the Fervent Fri 23 Jan 2015 09:12:54 No.37564313 Report

Quoted By: >>37564358 >>37564760

>>37564258
>What about Golgothos? Does he have the right to dictate to the group and say that his right over his creation is absolute and he can do whatever he wants, regardless of what the rest of us think? This is an important question!
That's a misunderstanding of my stance, and I've clearly done a bad job of communicating it.

The Entombed are a body of work. I am its Author.
The Project is a body of work. We are all its Author.
The Entombed are a subset of the Project

An Author has the right to veto additions to his project. If I want to add to the entombed, I'm also adding to the Project, and need to talk to everyone else, discuss it, and make sure people aren't wholly opposed to it. If someone else wants to add to the Entombed, they need to talk to me, discuss it, and make sure I'm not wholly opposed to it. Same goes for taking things away.

>>37564291
Yeah, kinda this.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace being played.gif, 670KiB, 500x200

Uriel Starikov/Children of Armok Fri 23 Jan 2015 09:13:21 No.37564317 Report

Quoted By: >>37564500

>>37563932
>And you just said that no anon who worked on a Legion really contributed.
Where exactly did I say this?

I *KNOW* I didn't imply it. This proposal is about legions, so i'm addressing the concerns about legions.
I think you either didn't understand, or are actively trying to discredit what I'm saying.

But while you are being "reasonable" lets talk:

A compromise - the Eyes are cut, and the merger you decided on with the Bound and the Gorgers goes ahead.
We cut chaff and no-one is shafted at all.

>there are many people who don't like the Children of Armok
You and Lumey are the only ones who have actually said anything.
Others have told me the contrary.
regardless, i've spent a long time working on a big proposal to sort out the Kids, address the concerns people had/have on certain aspects, and compromise as its done on my terms.
Thats been brushed off and any mention of me "working on" MY legion is ignored because you and lumey don't like me or my legion.

I disagreed with some of the aspects of the Phracts, but I like them regardless.
And I never forced my view down your throat with secretive proposals based on personal dislike.

>people on compromise
They could foresee the shitstorm this would create and would rather avoid it.
IF you had worked with me on the proposal that could have been achieved. But you intentionally cut me out, and politicked for support before revealing it.

>Lumey sat around in the room while I sprung ideas
Thats more or less as far as I see his involvement, that's clear given how the politics aspect was handled.
I've been told the proposal is all you.
He signed off on it all though, so he condoned some unsavoury shit too.
But I don't think the proposal is his.

>cont

Alexandri, Inferox Fri 23 Jan 2015 09:14:32 No.37564328 Report

Quoted By: >>37564364 >>37564606

>>37564167
>>37564189
Without points to get from A to B, or in this case, from SC to V. A timeline to show the decline of the Cataphracts to their final splintering against the Vetrovnak Incursion, the politics of their home of Rosskar being turned from an Imperial Truth haven into a war ground between the few Truthers left and the Faithests. The rise of the Void Angels as they eclipse them utterly in terms of legacy. All of this has to have a timeline, that we all agree on, to work. I want to write novellas in the universe, using other people's ideas to flesh them out more than a wiki article can, and I need a timeline. A beginning, a middle, and end. And I think everyone here came with the intention of meeting that.

Without this tissue holding all these unrelated pieces, they don't become the greater sum of their parts, they become just what they are. Ideas in an ether of internetspace. Text in the wind. Dying on the vine.

>>37564190
Lumey is a harsh, dry man with too much wit without any compassion. Or any emotion really. You can't even expect him to hate you, or be disgusted. He gives absolutely zero fucks. All he cares about is writing.
All you can do is slightly annoy him, which you have done Uriel. But make no mistake, these past few days talking to him have not brought us closer. And while there was private talks, I handled everything big out in a channel were Vetro was able to log everything.
Lumey was never big on this plan from the start, and Vetro has already detailed that they gave more input while high.

Also, no, it wouldn't. Because this wasn't his plan, he's not terribly interested in it. He just wants SOMETHING to happen to fix up our bloat. And he doesn't agree with this, but he's siding with it so it can happen.

It's my idea, and you should start respecting me when I say it.

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 09:14:49 No.37564334 Report

Quoted By: >>37564606

>>37564291
OK, but what his Legion can be and still be a Space Marine Legion (without being one of the Lost Legions) affects other people's creations, right? I mean, would you be OK if I decided that all the Void Angels are women?

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 09:17:58 No.37564358 Report

Quoted By: >>37564386 >>37564733

>>37564313
>If I want to add to the entombed, I'm also adding to the Project, and need to talk to everyone else, discuss it, and make sure people aren't wholly opposed to it. If someone else wants to add to the Entombed, they need to talk to me, discuss it, and make sure I'm not wholly opposed to it. Same goes for taking things away.
So this means that if the membership of the project changes, the new people can just get fucked?

I guess that's implied by your statement above about reader accessibility, but I want to be sure.

Golgothos the Fervent Fri 23 Jan 2015 09:18:16 No.37564364 Report

Quoted By: >>37564389

>>37564328
>And I think everyone here came with the intention of meeting that.
I came here with the intention of posting in a create your own legion thread.

Golgothos the Fervent Fri 23 Jan 2015 09:20:09 No.37564386 Report

Quoted By: >>37564406

>>37564358
>So this means that if the membership of the project changes, the new people can just get fucked?
You literally do this.
>Hey guys I'm new here's an idea
>No it's shit
>O...OK, goodbye

The project is ours. You're damn right we have the right to say no to people who come in with ideas we collectively dislike.

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 09:20:31 No.37564389 Report

Quoted By: >>37564410

>>37564364
>I came here with the intention of posting in a create your own legion thread.
I've been over the archives. That thread was months ago. It's over. You came along for the "let's fit all this stuff together" threads, too, and you've stayed with them. You knew what you were getting into. Trying to claim that it's all a big mistake now is pathetic.

Vetrovnak Fri 23 Jan 2015 09:22:07 No.37564406 Report

Quoted By: >>37564410 >>37564733

>>37564386
And now you are going in circles.

Golgothos the Fervent Fri 23 Jan 2015 09:22:46 No.37564410 Report

Quoted By: >>37564551

>>37564389
I'm still treating it as a create your own legion thread. Fitting it together is fun, but it's not important. If things don't fit together, it doesn't bother me.

>>37564406
what

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace why.gif, 701KiB, 500x200

Uriel Starikov/Children of Armok Fri 23 Jan 2015 09:25:41 No.37564437 Report

Quoted By: >>37564500 >>37564551

>>37563932
>Can you now give a good try at it?
Why SHOULD I?

Why am I under any obligation to shaft myself?

I tried being fair.

I bit my tongue as best I could while you and Lumey bitched about me in private, took shit out on LCK and others (who I *don't* know in real life by the by) and insulted me in thread.

I basically stayed out of the threads wherever I could because Lumey and I butting heads was getting in the way of the project.

I'm tired of doing that.
Partly because its bullshit I have to be nice and fair while you both play dirty.
And also because work has been really rough the last few weeks.

>>37564033
>That's fine as a view to put forward but you haven't been dictator in this project since Thread #2.
The tone was borrowed from you, but you are correct. It IS a compromise proposal though.
My issue with the name is that they are Greeks, the Roman names are out of place.
Make them Graeco-Roman and my issues are gone entirely.
It might also be a good way to step away from the ancient greece in spaace stuff that you didn't like.

>that isn't what I'm implying
I think you've gotten lost on the argument somewhere.
The proposal is about legions.
I'm commenting on that proposal, so ergo its about legions.
The non legion contributors have not been ignored, dismissed or disparaged by me.
They just aren't a part of this proposal/argument.

>Marvel
His point is in support of Golgo I believe.
Ie, the creator should have final say on their creation, although group view needs to be considered at least.

>>37564065
>The Bulwark
They would no longer be the Bulwark though.
They are a full legion concept.
>Why are they even IN the proposal?
They are the most distinct of the siege legions.
It wouldn't preserve their fluff as the Crucible would be removed/changed, as well as the Arelon empire stuff.
Sebs whole tragic tale and his legions fall to chaos is lost in favour of god knows what.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace deredeo-dreadp1.jpg, 80KiB, 800x680

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 09:28:09 No.37564462 Report

Quoted By: >>37564569 >>37564733

On a side note, this is pretty awesome.

Alexandri, Inferox Fri 23 Jan 2015 09:32:21 No.37564500 Report

Quoted By: >>37564733 >>37564856

>>37564317
It's a typo, it's late. It's supposed to read "And you said that no anon who didn't work on a Legion never really contributed'. By which I'm extrapolating the fact you are saying people can only meaningfully contribute if they have Legions. Which is why you want to hold onto your own, let Merrill have his own, and leave others open for other anons yes? Our over reliance on the Legions and our religious hold on them is hurting us severely. When we lose an anon we don't know what to do with a Legion, and just end up shelfing it more often then not. Less Legions means less anons working means more dedicated people around longer. Like Wayward, like Sebastion, like you. Like Merrill and like Golgo. People who will tell us if they can't be around for a while, when they'll come back, what they're working on. And actually do work.

As to your proposal, we'd still have two sneaky traitor Legions, 3 Psyker Legions(With the inclusion of the Mastodontii Tzeentchian plan), the Knights of Justice who struggle to find their cultural center while their tactical doctrine is sound thanks to Onyx, the incomplete, horribly so, Horns of Ruin. And we'd have 24 Legions instead of 26. That's hardly any change at all.

And the fact is if I didn't listen to people, and I'm still listening to people, the SC would be a broken mess not knowing what they want to do as a Legion.

>>37564437
You're still thinking this is to shaft you, or it would shaft you. It wouldn't.

On the Bulwark:
Sebastion would see Hektor fall to Chaos, his best friend. He'd see the Legion they built together fall to the mad whispers of Aubrey. The Aerlon Empire would be a construct of Sebastion still, garrisoned by troops loyal to him, his Bulwark. And the Crucible would have a completely reasonable explanation: It's a Heralds series of strongholds. It has to be taken, no questions asked. And Roman trained Sebastion, this is a personal insult.

Rex on IRC said this all sounded perfect and fit his story well.

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 09:36:50 No.37564551 Report

Quoted By: >>37564638 >>37564856

>>37564410
>I'm still treating it as a create your own legion thread.
This is you, right? http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/34432982/#34437951
The guy saying, "this is not a create your own legion thread, you may only make a chapter" - that's you? Why would you say that in a create your own legion thread?

>>37564437
>It IS a compromise proposal though.
It's not a compromise. You're telling the majority that they can only be right if they accept your conditions.

>Marvel
I understood the point. My remark is a retort to the effect that the analogy does not hold. This is why I don't like working with you: you think you're right but you don't think before you type.

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 09:38:31 No.37564569 Report

Quoted By:

>>37564462

dreadknight should have had a similar design except with different weapons obviously

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace female space marine.jpg, 57KiB, 476x599

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 09:40:25 No.37564595 Report

Quoted By: >>37566482

Still waiting to hear opinions on female Void Angels, btw. "My Legion, my choice," am I right?

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace really.gif, 2MiB, 500x250

Uriel Starikov/Children of Armok Fri 23 Jan 2015 09:41:05 No.37564606 Report

Quoted By: >>37564621 >>37564696

>>37564091
how is this in any way helping?

I would point out you also made an ultimatum about leaving if the Heresy went a way you didn't agree with.
Albeit far more subtly, but the point remains.

Lets at least keep our arguments with a purpose other than getting rid of contributors, eh?

>>37564126
will get on in a bit then
But its refreshing to have shit actually be said in public. I might be Uriel, but the misrepresentation and politics is bullshit at times

>>37564177
I think his point is more about the arguments of Lumey/Alex than about his own view.

I mean, we are all here to write and create. His fundamental point is correct, and while compromises have to be made sometimes, no-one should be getting dictated to.
We don't get paid to make being dictated to worth it.
But the issue I think is more than IF an idea is shut down, compromises and alternatives should be looked into to appease both parties, at least in spirit.
Just shutting down ideas is problematic for a creative project.

>>37564258
>What about Golgothos?
No, and thats twisting the point.
See my point to Vetro above, and to anon below for what I hope is clarification

>>37564291
This

>>37564328
>Lumey
Contrarily, he has stated in private and in thread that he dislikes/hates me.

I've also point out I don't care.

However I do care when it affects my ability to contribute to the project and discussions.

Again, I tried to extend an olive branch to him a thread or 2 ago. I felt we worked well in the past, clearly that was not to be taken at face value.

>It's my idea
I know. I said so.

>you should start respecting me when I say it.
>pic related
What?
I have shown you respect and restraint repeatedly. Whenever we have argued, I've shown you respect.
Far more than you usually show me I might add.

>>37564334
Ha you're enjoying this

Vetrovnak Fri 23 Jan 2015 09:42:21 No.37564621 Report

Quoted By:

>>37564606
Take your time. I have people who need lunches cooked for taking to work to get to.

Golgothos the Fervent Fri 23 Jan 2015 09:44:03 No.37564638 Report

Quoted By: >>37564692

>>37564551
I informed a guy that the thread had vocally agreed that no more primarchs should be made?

SHOCKER! STOP THE PRESSES!

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 09:49:08 No.37564692 Report

Quoted By: >>37564760

>>37564638
So you enforced the group consensus on someone, without reference to their ideas even. No compromise, no hearing them out, just a get-fucked.

From Mr. Author's rights. From Mr. "Create a Legion thread".

From the moment you kept posting after your ultimatum failed, it was obvious that you were a spineless opportunist, but it's nice to have it out in the open how little your "principles" mean to you. It's only your author's rights you care about, it's only a Legion Creation Thread when it suits you, it's group consensus rules when it suits you.

Why would anyone care if someone like you stayed or left?

Alexandri, Inferox Fri 23 Jan 2015 09:49:36 No.37564696 Report

Quoted By: >>37564856 >>37566482

>>37564606
You're still lumping me in with Lumey.

That shows disrespect.

Also all of those fucking gifs are the most condescending, narcissistic bullshit you could possibly chose. I've avoided looking at them until now because I know House of Cards and I knew exactly the kind of response I would have to looking at them: abject anger. Is that what you want? If not, then why post it?

It was not Lumey, but Mastodontii/Lore Anon who came up with this idea in the first place with me. Arelex agreed on fixing the CoA needed to be top priority, to which I agreed because at the moment your Legion is in too much too fast while still being untouchable by any other faction and never facing any failure at any front. It stretches the points of believably and stalls the rest of the Heresy from forming because Uriel is behind it all.

So, I'm saying Uriel in short is, I've tried from the start to give you a fair deal when others wanted to shaft you totally, or give you an ultimatum to change your core ideas to fit our own, or leave you as you are and change nothing which all perpetuates the same issues again.

And cutting only 2 Legions isn't going to work. We have too many legions! I will gladly cut the Cataphracts as I've said time and time again, put their shit into the VA or Steel Marshals, or War Scribes(War Scribes might be fun) to do this. It isn't just you and your's on display, it's all of us being put to the test of making this whole convoluted mess WORK.

Uriel Starikov/Children of Armok Fri 23 Jan 2015 09:53:11 No.37564733 Report

Quoted By:

>>37564358
>So this means that if the membership of the project changes, the new people can just get fucked?
He's never shown this mentality.
You have though, not with everyone, but with most newcomers you have, including LCK, azard, and others I don't even remember.
I do respect your defense of Onyx though, I agreed with that.

>>37564406
yeah he lost me with that last bit unfortunately

>>37564462
That may be enough dakka.
FER 'UMIES DAT IZ

>>37564500
>By which I'm extrapolating the fact you are saying people can only meaningfully contribute if they have Legions.
You missed the entire point then.

THIS PROPOSAL IS ABOUT LEGIONS, correct?
So my answers only apply to legions.
I never stated anything about non-legion anons.
I was a big fan of Dark Eldar Guys work, as one of the few people to read his stuff.
So don't give me shit like I'm undervaluing people's contributions.
I defended Nathanog on those grounds. I prefer to remain consistent with my views, I didn't like Nath, but I wasn't going to contradict my worldview to get rid of him.

>Mastodontii Tzeentchian plan
If it wasn't clear, I'm opposed to that
As if you have to ask
I'm addressing Tzeentch-ness, I even told you roughly how, and you said you were fine with it.

My proposal is to ONLY cut the Eyes, and go ahead with the Gorger/Bound merger as LCK is cool with that and has a cool concept for it.

Everything else I am against completely.

>That's hardly any change at all.
It gets rid of 2 problems, the Bound and the Eyes
It leaves me Seb Vetro(Horns) and Onyx(KoJ) contributing to respective legions, and the SK are still around for Darius to still be a thing, meaning the outline of the battle for Terra doesn't need to be YET AGAIN worked on.

My proposal retains established fluff, while cutting the areas the GROUP has agreed are problematic (eyes), or assented to (Gorgers/Bound).

Its a win for everyone.
Nobody gets shafted.

>SC comment
This makes no sense

Golgothos the Fervent Fri 23 Jan 2015 09:56:55 No.37564760 Report

Quoted By: >>37564799

>>37564692
>So you enforced the group consensus on someone, without reference to their ideas even. No compromise, no hearing them out, just a get-fucked.
It's as if you haven't read a single post I made.
>>37564313

>From the moment you kept posting after your ultimatum failed,
My "ultimatum" didn't fail because it didn't come up. Nobody has cut the kids yet, so I have no reason to leave.

>It's only your author's rights you care about,
Yeah, me fighting really hard for you not to cut Uriel out of spite is pure self interest

> it's only a Legion Creation Thread when it suits you
Yeah pretty much. I care about different things at different times.

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 10:02:15 No.37564799 Report

Quoted By: >>37564864

>>37564760
>It's as if you haven't read a single post I made.
It only seems that way because, like most opportunists, you have mastered the art of forgetting your own trail. But your ultimatum was at >>37563404. You reiterated it at >>37564167. I mean, it's one thing to brush off posts from months ago, but this stuff is on the same page!

Uriel Starikov/Children of Armok Fri 23 Jan 2015 10:10:53 No.37564856 Report

Quoted By: >>37564927

>>37564500
>You're still thinking this is to shaft you, or it would shaft you. It wouldn't.
It would.
And also Merrill, Seb, Onyx, and Vetro to an extent.

>Bulwark
Its irrelevant
They don't need to be changed.
They are absolutely fine.

Rex is looking for middle ground to stop us (Lumey you and I) from fighting.

>>37564551
>It's not a compromise.
It is though, I'm not the only person to vote Conathos.
Its not a condition either.
Its a compromise.
Do you have a problem with the Heralds being Greco-Roman?

>you think you're right but you don't think before you type.
Maybe, but you *do* think before you type yet spout caustic bullshit and insults at people.

>>37564696
>lumping you in with Lumey
Not without justification.
You and Lumey agree here, you have in the past on the subject of me/the Kids.

He's not a direct part of the proposal, but he is part of the bad blood in the thread. As are you. As am I.

>I came up with idea not Lumey or Lore
Have you not read anything I've said?
I've specifically said that I knew it was "your" proposal, even before you posted it.

I'm not blaming Lumey for the proposal, or claiming he came up with it.

>CoA
Yeah they are in need of work
But at what point did you come to me?
At what point of me laying out one of the parts of my proposal to you in irc did you object?
You didn't.

I am working on the Kids, I have mentioned that they have entered problematic territory. *I* have said that, and have spent a lot of my free time working out a way to fix them. Just last night, after a another 10 hour shift, I posted up 8k+ bytes to Uriels page about the Great Crusade, detailing a lot about a campaign I've been writing up, whereby Uriel gets outplayed and fucked up, taking a fucking long time to sort out his problem before overcoming it, to criticism I might add.

>Uriel is behind it all.
He isn't though. He starts it (as Lorgar starts the OU), then he has little role to play in it bar peripheral sidelines stuff.

Golgothos the Fervent Fri 23 Jan 2015 10:12:00 No.37564864 Report

Quoted By: >>37564973

>>37564799
>literally doesn't even read the posts he links

What the fuck do you even mean by opportunists? What opportunity am I seizing? What am I seizing it for? Yeah, it's really fucking opportunistic of me to get mad at you and Alexandri for forming a secret goddamn cabal to drive out someone you don't like. I'm definitely the self-serving one in this scenario.

Hm. Being openly antagonistic and focusing on minutia to drive out people who actively create better content than you do just because you don't like them. That sounds familiar.

Alexandri, Inferox Fri 23 Jan 2015 10:19:21 No.37564927 Report

Quoted By:

>>37564856
I wanted to talk to you, but Merrill asked to be the first one to do it, then Rex talked to Merrill and got his consent to do that instead, at least I believe. Rex then came to me and asked to talk to you first. Was very adamant about it, told no one to say a word to you when you got on IRC and wanted to talk to you very badly. I bugged him constantly for reports about how it was going, if it was going well, if I should talk to you. He told me it was going fine but you weren't being that receptive except to certain cuts and mergers. When you went offline, Rex told me you weren't all aboard but were receptive and I should post my proposal. I asked him twice if he was sure, then went with it.

And Rex didn't come up with this idea, he just agreed it was a nice idea that could work well since his Legion can be transported with the least problems into another, especially the Heralds, he'd also be made the Heralds main anon(With you, and everyone else helping him with ideas).

And just because I agreed with Lumey in the past, I'm now inseparable from him?
You're not making much sense with that bad blood comment.

You're saying that Lumey okayed the proposal, that he's at fault for what's in there, and you keep using LUMEY'S WORDS ABOUT A DIFFERENT PLAN TO FUCKING JAB AT ME.

You are not paying me any respect, you're poking at Lumey and poking at me while you do it.

And the thing with the kids is, you haven't worked on them in a while and I can't remember anything about any proposal you gave and I approved.

Perhaps, if you are so busy, you should organize another anon to HELP YOU. Rather than rely on yourself. That's another thing I was going to push after this proposal. It's not one anon one legion, it's several anons all the legions. We all help each other, actively.

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 10:20:57 No.37564947 Report

Quoted By:

Oh good grief.

Everyone, EVERYONE, please take a deep breath, step away from the keyboard and spend a minute settling tempers. Things are spiraling out of control here.

Damn it, I should not have to be the voice of reason. After all most of this mess is my bloody fault in the first place.

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 10:24:07 No.37564973 Report

Quoted By:

>>37564864
>literally cannot remember what he's written in the last few hours
>even with the help of reminders
I mean, seriously, you're meant to be a judge of good content now? I think you're probably at the point where you don't need new posts from me to stay frothing at the mouth. Just go back up the page and reply to my previous posts again until you run out of steam.

Fundamentalist Guardsman Fri 23 Jan 2015 11:00:37 No.37565239 Report

Quoted By: >>37565262

>>37551687
>>37551718

My 2 cent:

This seems like a rather lazy way of doing things.

I know it's not as simple as that, and I don't mean any disrespect to anybody by this. It's just that, one of the main things with this project was to make an alternate reality where that sorts out a lot of 40K's problems, but stays true to the setting. And it feels like we're falling back on GW tactics "Can't make peoples favourite stuff work? Let's just say it never happened. Squats? Never heard of them."

Honestly, I like the Knights of Justice. They feel like what the Ultramarines are trying to be. This move to incorporate them into the Steel Marshals and Crusaders makes it feel as though... Well, as though the Steel Marshals and Crusaders are pretty much the same legion, sans the name.

If people are insistent on it, then i'm not going to say no. I just want it to be known that this, feels like a rather lazy direction to go in.
>>37563759

The simple way to solve the Consistancy issues is, when people come in, give them a basic description of what kind of things we need in the setting and see if they want to do it, if not, then just let them get on with it.

As far as I'm concerned, if this project is lacking something, tell me what it is and i'll try my best to make something to make up for that.

Hell, I'm still willing to take over the Scale Bearers if nobody else is going to work on them.

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 11:04:08 No.37565262 Report

Quoted By: >>37565356

>>37565239
>it feels like we're falling back on GW tactics "Can't make peoples favourite stuff work? Let's just say it never happened. Squats? Never heard of them."
We really aren't. Of the Legion ideas that got pitched, I think two thirds of them have been reinvented as Chapters or Warbands.

And the Squat are in the AU.

Fundamentalist Guardsman Fri 23 Jan 2015 11:16:09 No.37565356 Report

Quoted By: >>37565365 >>37565389

>>37565262
I did say, I know it's not as simple as that. It's just that, I personally think that cutting several Legions entirely is a bad move. If people want, i'll take over for the Knights of Justice and fix the problems, if people can point out the inconsistencies.

Alexandri, Inferox Fri 23 Jan 2015 11:17:26 No.37565365 Report

Quoted By: >>37565389

>>37565356
The fact you don't know Onyx is writing them doesn't inspire confidence in your ability to gauge what is essential for the project.

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 11:20:25 No.37565389 Report

Quoted By:

>>37565365
Easy, tiger.

>>37565356
The big issue with the KoJ is our surfeit of knightly marines. (Read the Crusaders, Steel Marshals, and Knights of Justice. There are doctrinal differences, but they were achieved by separating the Fallschirmjaeger from their pals in the Panzerarmee.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace The emperor Approves of this.jpg, 44KiB, 500x364

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 11:30:29 No.37565477 Report

Quoted By:

>>37562677
Do not worry citizen of the imperium. While there is only but one path to the emperor, there are still many ways to get there.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace Lumey.jpg, 606KiB, 2480x3508

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 11:54:09 No.37565676 Report

Quoted By:

Not my work, but check out:
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_Gore_Suns

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace 1cc.gif, 2MiB, 180x140

Yaotls Fri 23 Jan 2015 13:22:05 No.37566369 Report

Quoted By: >>37566657

>>37562464
Disagree with the planning for the Heretics ammounting solely to "Horus dumb, Hektor smart". It's been repeatedly thrown out there that making the Heresy a protracted conflict with more of an attrition element could make significant changes from the OU, and that's been ignored.

>>37563210
Sums up my feelings pretty well. Legions with active anons who don't want to drop their legions shouldn't be cut. It's not that hard of a concept to grasp.

>>37563570
I see where you're coming from, I don't feel like making changes to someone else's creation without even discussing it with them is a fine and dandy idea. I made changes to a part of the Silver Cataphracts to make my own creation fit into existing canon, and although they were pretty minor and the thread agreed it was a good idea, I waited until I got word from Alexandri that it was k with him before doing it.

Now, to take a break from all the rectal fury in the thread right now; I've always felt that the shape of the Imperium should have been plotted out *before* we got into crafting legions. I realize most of you guys don't want to write that way and I wasn't around at the beginning to suggest otherwise, but while we're complaining about progress being made? There's a simple solution to that. 1) Make a framework for people to work in; craft the skeleton of the history of the Imperium and let people write their own shit into it and 2) Actually update the wiki, the only reason the project isn't accessible is because we're all too lazy to write down our shit.

Yaotls Fri 23 Jan 2015 13:34:23 No.37566482 Report

Quoted By: >>37566657 >>37566672 >>37568677

>>37564595
Now who's straw-manning brah? "BTW, if other people don't want their fully developed legions entirely rewritten, I have the right to add controversial things that go against existing fluff to my legion" is a giant false comparison.

I don't want to get into the mudslinging, and I'm still reading my way down the thread, but man; you come off as a really hostile. I'm ok with that, but you need to at least make an effort to respect other anons here. They do it for free. You not liking an idea does not automatically mean it's bad. It's not impossible for ideas I don't like to be well written and mesh well with the project. Chill.

>>37564696
I agree with you on the House of Cards gifs being really aggravating. But getting defensive and trying to turn it back on Uriel, claiming he should feel grateful because you argued against shafting him less in a secret clique full of people who just up and decided they should dictate the future of the project without public discussion? I personally respect you, so it pains me to say it, but that there is some bullshit, Alex.
Also, the Cataphracts being cut is a bad idea. Your legion, your call, but I at least wouldn't like it.

In conclusion: I AM THE LEADER OF THE HEKTOR HERESY, LOOK UPON MY WORKS YE MIGHTY AND TREMBLE.

Fundamentalist Guardsman Fri 23 Jan 2015 13:37:36 No.37566508 Report

Quoted By: >>37566540 >>37566657 >>37566672 >>37566817 >>37568677

I have been thinking... I would like, with the blessing of the group, to be allowed to come up with a new Legion, with a Han Dynasty Chinese motif? I have a few things already mapped out in my head, but I would like some blessing before I actually put more down. Since it seems as though asking about cutting KoJ is merely a formality, that leaves us with 5 (potentially 6 if the Kids fuse with the Iron Rangers) open slots.

Yaotls Fri 23 Jan 2015 13:41:23 No.37566540 Report

Quoted By: >>37566560

>>37566508
Personally I'd be k with it, but the feeling in the thread (or at least one group of users in the IRC, I can't be sure anymore) is that we should be cutting legions out rather than adding new ones in or just rewritting abandoned legions.

Song Dynasty best dynasty too, btw.

Fundamentalist Guardsman Fri 23 Jan 2015 13:43:29 No.37566560 Report

Quoted By: >>37566672

>>37566540
Well, it was inspired by recently reading Romance of the Three Kingdoms... Which, granted, starts at the very end of the Han Dynasty, but you know what I mean.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace notpleased.gif, 417KiB, 500x203

Merrill of the Iron Rangers Fri 23 Jan 2015 13:50:07 No.37566612 Report

Quoted By: >>37566672 >>37566695 >>37568677

HELLO, PEOPLE!

I'm posting this real quick, so please enjoy.

First and foremost,
I.
FUCKING.
HATE.
POLITICS.

I hate backstabbing, I hate using or being used by people, and I hate everything involved. I'm not some little hippy fuck who thinks everyone should always get along, don't get me wrong. Maybe I'm able to sidestep most issues I have with an individual in order to accomplish a project, but I have been able to look past numerous issues with individuals before to accomplish the goal. Which is why I haven't really been on much really at all.

Now, to take a step forward, let me clarify some points of mine.
I don't care if we have a wiki.
I don't care if the project gets completed.
If I came here to work, I would charge by the hour. I could certainly use the funds.
I enjoy spitballing and occasionally writefagging. I'm doing this for fun. I don't find constantly updating the wiki fun, especially as my methods create a lot of change in stuff as I go along, and create a constantly evolving idea.

That being said, I'm taking a step back. I'll stick on IRC if anyone wants to bullshit or spitball or whatever, and will check up on things from time to time, but until this shitstorm dies down to a measly "hitting the fan," I'm stepping back. I feel we've lost a lot of the original spirit of the project somewhere along the way. It's been changed from a fun little bit of entertainment to something that alternately NEEDS TO BE FINISHED NOW and is just kind of there. So you guys, feel free to finish whatever's been started, and let me know when it's all over.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace Uriel herding cats.gif, 479KiB, 500x200

Uriel Starikov/Children of Armok Fri 23 Jan 2015 13:56:00 No.37566657 Report

Quoted By: >>37566817 >>37568677

>>37566369
>>37566482
The argument seems to have quietened down now, myself, Golgy, Alex and Lumey spoke on irc, and made headway into clearing things up/compromising.
Hopefully we'll all reset and come back to threads and go back to quickly reworking on the beginning and end of the heresy like we did before, so we can progress on with the actual heresy itself.
The politicking and deadliney stuff gets in the way of fun.
I'm up for robust discussion however.

>point 1)
I agree, kinda.
I'm biased, but working out who the players are as individuals, and what the legions are like, is a good start, as people make history by interacting.
Know who a person is, and the interactions and events will start to create themselves from little details.

With retrospect it would have helped to all be on the same page re:the greater universe.
But we deal with shit as we can.

>Actually update the wiki, the only reason the project isn't accessible is because we're all too lazy to write down our shit.
Truth.
And I'm a big problem in that regard.

>House of Cards gifs
I just like the show Surprise surprise
The gifs were probably a bit condescending, but Lumeys cats can get that way when arguing.

They didn't have any point or meaning besides the >pic related one. and I was trying to get across frustration more than condescension

>New master is a filthy cock fencing xenos
Not my cup of tea, but I also don't drink tea...
As long as politics aren't ruling the threads I'm happy.
Ironic that Uriel isn't into politicking?

>>37566508
We had a chinese legion suggested to us, it didn't work, but Arelex was going to work Han Dynasty/Three Kingdoms stuff into the Bulwark, that may be changed now though.

Merrill of the Iron Rangers Fri 23 Jan 2015 13:57:34 No.37566672 Report

Quoted By: >>37566746 >>37572916

>>37566508
>>37566560
OH, FUCK NO.
I already posted, and got shot down, my idea of a monastic Primarch that follows Confucianist/Buddhist/Taoist ideals, trying to create a very Sun Tzu-like form and early medieval Chinese Legion based around Light Infantry with fast vehicle support (jetbikes, bikes, and landspeeders to substitute for cavalry and chariots. Someone please tell me that one idea is worth pursuing more than the other.

>>37566482
>>37566612
Alright, in the interest of helping speed things along and creating a better environment, here are some educational videos for the group:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qb-h0sXkH4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybOvddwpJAg

Fundamentalist Guardsman Fri 23 Jan 2015 14:00:10 No.37566695 Report

Quoted By: >>37566723 >>37566746

>>37566612
Hey, dude, i'm with you, but at the same time. But i'm really excited to see the finished product. Hell, I might even build a couple of models for this (I'm currently building Faran from Horde of the Hated, to be a Tempestus Prime in my IG army)

If you are on IRC, I'd like to talk with you about my Legion idea... If someone will help me get onto the IRC. The link provided in a previous thread just leads me to a blank page with weird 8-bit music.

Vetrovnak Fri 23 Jan 2015 14:03:47 No.37566723 Report

Quoted By:

>>37566695
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/chats.html

#HektorHeresy

Uriel Starikov/Children of Armok Fri 23 Jan 2015 14:06:30 No.37566746 Report

Quoted By: >>37566960

>>37566672
Love me some Ideas Channel.
And minute physics.
and vsauce occasionally.

>>37566695
are you using Chrome or Firefox?

Or something else you godless heathen!?

If on Chrome, search for, download, and install Byrd irc client. Its really easy to set up and use.

If on FF you'll have to google it, but I believe there is a dedicated chat service for it.

Sabastaan Rax, The Gatakaapar Fri 23 Jan 2015 14:15:15 No.37566817 Report

Quoted By:

>>37566508
I would not be against this, thought the Bulwark do take some notes, especially in culture, from Imperial China.
Dude, what if we sorta combined forces on that?
I'd be cool with you throwin up all sorts of ideas.

>>37566657
Whether the Bulwark gets absorbed or not, I planned to have Arelese culture be based on early dynastic China.

Good to see things have calmed down a bit, though.

Fundamentalist Guardsman Fri 23 Jan 2015 14:30:29 No.37566960 Report

Quoted By: >>37566971

>>37566746
I tried Byrd, but it seems to not want to connect. Or, it keeps kicking me off, stating "Disconnected from Server"

Sabastaan Rax, The Gatakaapar Fri 23 Jan 2015 14:31:32 No.37566971 Report

Quoted By: >>37567075

>>37566960
Try Icechat?
Download it for free and whatnot.

Fundamentalist Guardsman Fri 23 Jan 2015 14:40:41 No.37567075 Report

Quoted By: >>37567192

>>37566971
Alright, I'm gonna admit it. I have never used an IRC chat before, so I have NO idea how to set up the server connection properly. I have to be doing something wrong.

What information do you put where?

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 14:44:07 No.37567110 Report

Quoted By:

Are we still in the Heresy?

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace Capture.png, 16KiB, 484x363

Sabastaan Rax, The Gatakaapar Fri 23 Jan 2015 14:54:18 No.37567192 Report

Quoted By:

>>37567075
Once this is done, simply /join #hektorheresy

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace you think this is motherfucking (...).jpg, 25KiB, 500x229

Lord Captain Kitten !!JN5xiNYXCkX Fri 23 Jan 2015 15:30:39 No.37567482 Report

Quoted By: >>37567532 >>37569996

What's this about the Gorgers?

>>37542191
>Gorgers
Yep, a regular work in progress.

>>37551687
The gorger/bloodbound merge is no longer a proposal, it is currently ongoing.

>>37563574
>Small changes = effective change
Agreed. Guys, lets not hit the restart button. The project /is/ progressing. Simply not at the speed some people expect.

>LCK Continues to read through the thread

This whole cutting the legions thing is dumb and does not serve an effective purpose to a volunteer group project beholden to itself. Further, it will yet again force a mass change in the hidden details of fluff across many wiki-pages.

>But last summer

Yes. It takes a large amount of time, work, and patience to produce an entire story line. Even when it is based off of one already established, however we have more than a dozen writers working on this and significant headway has been made thus far. We have planets, we have primarchs, we have a dictated course of action. All of that I previously mentioned are rough around the edges, but simply need some work. Not to be thrown out.

Onyx Fri 23 Jan 2015 15:36:56 No.37567532 Report

Quoted By: >>37567614 >>37568677

>>37567482
I'm fine with the changes, I agree that there's a lot of vestigial ideas that should be removed

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 15:47:45 No.37567614 Report

Quoted By: >>37568217

>>37567532
>I'm fine with the changes, I agree that there's a lot of vestigial ideas that should be removed
but you aren't okay with a huge overhaul of everything done so far?

Onyx Fri 23 Jan 2015 16:57:02 No.37568217 Report

Quoted By: >>37568677

>>37567614
if it's what everyone thinks would be better, absolutely
I should probably rehaul my own stuff as well

Alexandri, Inferox Fri 23 Jan 2015 17:37:30 No.37568677 Report

Quoted By: >>37569937 >>37569996

Attention, the proposal is going through some changes. The Children of Iron idea is probably not gonna work anymore and I'm not supporting it since Uriel has revealed some radical changes to the Children of Armok which respond to his main detractor's complaints about the Legion for a long ass time. So we'll finally have them shutting up, and the rest of the Heresy should fall more easily into place.

>>37566482
'without public discussion'.

There was 8 people in IRC channel throwing around ideas, some of them being names you know such as Brennus and Sebastion.

And we still posted in here. I don't doubt we could have done this a lot less friendly and could have thrown out more demands than not.

>>37566508
Look man, I don't want to want to be the bad guy.

But I'm gonna be the bad guy.

A new Legion right now is the one of the last things we need.

>>37566612
Alright, that's fine, no politics or backstabbing happened though so I don't understand what you're saying.

I wanted to talk to Uriel, then you asked to do it. Then Rex. He would have been told everything and it would have worked out. In fact, that's exactly what just happened.

>>37566657
Thank you Uriel for not mentioning jack shit about what we talked about, leaving everyone in the dark as to the changed nature of what happened and having them all assume I'm still out to get your blood.

We talked on IRC, cleared up miscommunications abound, Uriel explained what he was doing to the Children to a point that even Lumey was finally pleased and I could be perfectly fine with both the IR and CoA existing because they'd be radically different in given time.

>>37567532
>>37568217
I felt really bad putting the KoJ on the block with all you did for them, but resolved just to make sure was much as of their stuff survived in tact for the Crusaders and Steel Marshals.

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 17:45:35 No.37568771 Report

Quoted By: >>37568864 >>37569996 >>37579422

to have peoples reactions on the cuts gauged scientifically:

>Sand Keepers
http://strawpoll.me/3468324

>Horns of Ruin
http://strawpoll.me/3468363

>Bulwark
http://strawpoll.me/3468367

>Knights of Justice
http://strawpoll.me/3468359

>Children of Amok
http://strawpoll.me/3468426

>Eyes of the Emperor
http://strawpoll.me/3468382

Bonus questions about the project itself:

>How do you feel about the project general poll
http://strawpoll.me/3468442

>What do you think is the ultimate priority of this project
http://strawpoll.me/3468509

Alexandri, Inferox Fri 23 Jan 2015 17:54:53 No.37568864 Report

Quoted By:

>>37568771
Honestly this is what should have happened int he first place perhaps, I thought that by leaving strawpoll out of it we could talk. And we did! If this had been up first thing I would have voted merging the CoA, now I voted to keep them.

If we cut the Horns(They can work awesome as a warband anyhow), we can keep the Bulwark, so that's fine.

Alexandri, Inferox Fri 23 Jan 2015 19:31:15 No.37569756 Report

Quoted By:

Bump.

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 19:46:34 No.37569937 Report

Quoted By:

>>37568677
The IRC is frequented by a fraction of the people involved in the project. It's not even included in the OP. And the proposal wasn't made in the regular IRC. I think it's fair to say that you guys gathered you group and made the proposal without anyone else's imput.

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 19:52:01 No.37569996 Report

Quoted By: >>37570032 >>37571153 >>37572757

>>37567482
>The gorger/bloodbound merge is no longer a proposal, it is currently ongoing.
When did the group agree to that?

>>37568677
>Lumey was finally pleased
Just so we're clear, I maintained throughout the discussion that the direction being talked about for the Children of Armok (less sneakiness, a much reduced role in the plot, a military focus on basic military principles) involved killing the best things about them in order to keep them as a Space Marine Legion.

>>37568771
The Legion options won't let me vote for "Keep them as something other than a Space Marine Legion", which is what I want to do in every case.

Alexandri, Inferox Fri 23 Jan 2015 19:55:09 No.37570032 Report

Quoted By: >>37572496

>>37569996
That's the direction Golgo and RAWK were trying to go, while it was clear from how Uriel was taking it and from what me and him were discussing is that he's gonna find his own way, probably not anything to do with what they were saying for the CoA. Least that's how I saw it. I agree with you, but the CoA are tackling their biggest condemnations and I'm okay with giving them more than enough time to get their tactics spruced up.

Alexandri, Inferox Fri 23 Jan 2015 21:19:28 No.37571153 Report

Quoted By: >>37572496 >>37576991

>>37569996
Do you think it'd be alright if I spell check the Gore Suns page? The editing makes my eyes hurt even if the content is grand.

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 22:43:37 No.37572496 Report

Quoted By:

>>37570032
I'm not restarting the argument. I just want to be clear: We do not agree that all is well with the CoA. I am not pleased.

On the strength of this thread, I'm thinking that going into IRC is just asking to be misrepresented.

>>37571153
Not my call.

Lord Captain Kitten !!JN5xiNYXCkX Fri 23 Jan 2015 22:57:28 No.37572757 Report

Quoted By: >>37572823

>>37569996
>Gorger/bound merger
On IRC

Though I am more than happy to read the groups reiteration of their position regarding the Gorger/bloodbound merger here.

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 23:00:52 No.37572823 Report

Quoted By: >>37573131

>>37572757
>I am more than happy to read the groups reiteration of their position regarding the Gorger/bloodbound merger here.
I think that's a good idea.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace butthurt.jpg, 46KiB, 540x960

Merrill of the Iron Rangers Fri 23 Jan 2015 23:06:41 No.37572916 Report

Quoted By: >>37572970

>pic related

Alright, I've talked with Alexandri about what's all been going down.

I'm still not happy about certain aspects

I'm still taking a breather

But there is a mutual understanding. Everybody wants, to some degree, the same thing here. We all enjoy the project, and we all want it to do well. I may have used the wrong words in my earlier rant about this project finishing. I more or less don't want it to end, as I find the endless spitballing, brainstorming, and occasional writefagging fun. With that in mind, please watch the videos located here >>37566672 if you haven't already, and let's not let this thing devolve into sides.

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 23:10:56 No.37572970 Report

Quoted By: >>37573030 >>37573074 >>37573238

>>37572916
>I more or less don't want it to end, as I find the endless spitballing, brainstorming, and occasional writefagging fun.
But nobody is proposing this. It's just a rhetorical hammer that Golgothos picked up. "Do you want fun or the project done?"

The "completionist" position is just that endlessly rehashing the same shit gets wearisome. Wouldn't you like to be talking about Waaaagh! The Beast? The Black Crusade analogues? The Nova Terra Interregnum? Age of Apostasy? Sisters of Battle? The reawakening of the Necrons? The Tyrannids? There's no prospect of "finishing" the project, only of opening up MORE things to talk about.

Or staying on the "make a Legion" treadmill until everyone gets sick of it.

Anonymous Fri 23 Jan 2015 23:14:04 No.37573030 Report

Quoted By:

>>37572970

Agreed. We need to finish the Heresy and move into the Age of the Imperium sometime soon.

Lord Captain Kitten !!JN5xiNYXCkX Fri 23 Jan 2015 23:16:27 No.37573074 Report

Quoted By: >>37573131

>>37572970
Agreed. It appears to be more a fear of disregarding what legions we are already working on in favor of progression.

Progression is necessary, however it needs a firm foundation.That's the biggest issue with the OU, the foundation is extremely haphazard.

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 23:19:24 No.37573131 Report

Quoted By: >>37573474

>>37573074
Not sure you saw my reply at >>37572823.

Merrill of the Iron Rangers Fri 23 Jan 2015 23:25:46 No.37573238 Report

Quoted By: >>37573371

>>37572970
I think you're misconstruing my words there.
When I say that I don't want it to end, I'm not stating that I want fun or the project done, merely stating my preferences.

Saying what I enjoy and what I would prefer.
Again, I personally don't care about the wiki or leaving a legacy, I just enjoy bsing and coming up with ideas. I don't care where the project goes, so long as it keeps going.

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 23:33:08 No.37573371 Report

Quoted By: >>37573474

>>37573238
I understand what you're saying. What I'm trying to get across is that there's no need to argue against the project ending. Similarly
>leaving a legacy
isn't an objective. The wiki is there so that newcomers can look things up - actually, so that everyone can look things up! - rather than trying to keep everything straight in our heads all the time. The usefulness of this came up recently with the Codex debate restarting. I had people saying, "How could everyone trust just Gaspard Lumey to write the Codex?"

But because we'd kept the wiki up to date during the last argument, I could refer people back to what had been agreed at that time: the two survivors of the "big four" warlords of the Imperium (Thomas Gaudin and Gaspard Lumey) wrote the Codex together, with Gaudin laying out the ethics and Lumey explaining his doctrine.

That sort of thing is why we have the wiki. For keeping track of where we're up to with our bs-ing and new ideas.

Lord Captain Kitten !!JN5xiNYXCkX Fri 23 Jan 2015 23:37:30 No.37573474 Report

Quoted By: >>37573775

>>37573131
I did. Did you mean I should be reading them now?

>>37573371
Keep going.

Lumey Fri 23 Jan 2015 23:54:55 No.37573775 Report

Quoted By: >>37573814

>>37573474
Yeah, you really should show what was concluded by the group. Lots of people don't use IRC.

Lord Captain Kitten !!JN5xiNYXCkX Fri 23 Jan 2015 23:56:41 No.37573814 Report

Quoted By: >>37574070 >>37574112

>>37573775
Ah, yeah. That is my bad. I spoke with Golgothos, Alex, and Sebastion at one point. Then Uriel, Merrill, Alex, and Brennus another. I'll go look for the thread where I asked about this for re-confirmation.

Onyx Sat 24 Jan 2015 00:00:43 No.37573904 Report

Quoted By: >>37574070 >>37574832

so I was researching African mythology for the wild craftworld (naming it Yemoja, an african fertility goddess) and found some good stuff
namely that almost all african myths involve the supreme creator becoming either horribly dissapointed or just plain bored, and giving up entirely

Zorg, Dragon Rider Sat 24 Jan 2015 00:03:24 No.37573952 Report

Quoted By: >>37574017 >>37574048

A tad disappointed I missed the drama, but I voted on Strawpoll.

So, moving forward any? Not that I didn't read the thread.

Lumey Sat 24 Jan 2015 00:06:38 No.37574017 Report

Quoted By:

>>37573952
>So, moving forward any?
I'm working on the Al-Sherar Sector War.

Lord Captain Kitten !!JN5xiNYXCkX Sat 24 Jan 2015 00:08:11 No.37574048 Report

Quoted By: >>37574112

>>37573952
I'm continuing to update the Gorger page.

Alexandri, Inferox Sat 24 Jan 2015 00:08:55 No.37574070 Report

Quoted By: >>37574397 >>37575273

>>37573814
Well, the idea was the have Nathanog(I checked the wiki, and found no mention of any of your work there so I have no idea what his new name is) as an Equerry and make Urehikau Kauaeroa the Primarch. That's what I said to Golgo, and Vetro. Sebastion wasn't there. The idea was to keep both concepts from both Legions, making the Bloodbound more tribalistic in general with Aztec and Maori themes added on for flavor. Or, to have Urehikau Kauaeroa as the Primarch of the Azorgers.

What I've seen you talk about mostly, is replacing everything about the Bloodbound and making straight up your ideas for the Gorgers be the dominant ones. Well, some of it is your ideas, but some of it is also Vetro and Brennus's ideas as well.

I want something more fair to the BB, than what you're giving them, essentially.

>>37573904
I like plain bored. Not explored much. Disappointed feels like it has been done before.
Just my two cents tho. Please don't make the African craftworld dumb tho plz onyx muh nigg

Lumey Sat 24 Jan 2015 00:10:53 No.37574112 Report

Quoted By: >>37574397

>>37573814
>>37574048
... wait. I thought you were
>happy to read the groups reiteration of their position regarding the Gorger/bloodbound merger here.
Could you just do that so I have some idea of what was decided, by whom, and why? We've had enough suggestions of conspiracy for one thread.

Zorg, Dragon Rider Sat 24 Jan 2015 00:13:04 No.37574160 Report

Quoted By: >>37574251 >>37574319 >>37574506

I've noticed that despite all the drama with every other legion, the Scale Bearers are above it all.

Alexandri, Inferox Sat 24 Jan 2015 00:17:29 No.37574251 Report

Quoted By: >>37574298

>>37574160
And the War Scribes.
And many other Legions.

Zorg, Dragon Rider Sat 24 Jan 2015 00:19:34 No.37574298 Report

Quoted By:

>>37574251
IIRC, even they were subject to drama at some point.

Lumey Sat 24 Jan 2015 00:21:01 No.37574319 Report

Quoted By: >>37574388

>>37574160
You mean the Lizard Feet? Weren't they the Legion who caused drama with their name until they were on the verge of being cut?

Zorg, Dragon Rider Sat 24 Jan 2015 00:24:11 No.37574388 Report

Quoted By: >>37574832

>>37574319
That was before my time. Ergo, never happened.

Lord Captain Kitten !!JN5xiNYXCkX Sat 24 Jan 2015 00:24:31 No.37574397 Report

Quoted By: >>37574419 >>37574463

>>37574070
The new name is Camaxtli. My thoughts were much the same, only the positions of the Blood Bound and the Gorgers would be switched. Urehikau would be an equerry and eventually become the third, second, or third captain/chapter master of the newGorger legion.

I think I see where you are coming from regarding the Blood Bound? I know that the Blood Bound have their own page and some story, but it was not very much. At least in my opinion. What I intended, and will eventually get to, was to slowly introduce the Blood Bound concept within the legion over time. Basically, as the Gorger get further away from their homeworld and continue to recruit from the slave ranks a large sub-culture forms. These 'slave born' will be based strongly on the original Blood Bound concept, and form a distinct portion of the Gorger's legion.

I am very willing to incorporate the Blood Bound into the 'newgorger' concept, I simply know very little about them and would love a more detailed synopsis of their concept.

>>37574112
As in post it?

Alexandri, Inferox Sat 24 Jan 2015 00:25:33 No.37574419 Report

Quoted By: >>37574517 >>37574832

>>37574397
Does anyone have the Bloodbound PDF?

I think Uriel held onto it.

It has a lot more than what's on the wiki currently.

Lumey Sat 24 Jan 2015 00:27:29 No.37574463 Report

Quoted By: >>37574517

>>37574397
>As in post it?
Yes.

It's a bit concerning that Alex, who was in both of these discussions where you supposedly got a green light, is on here disagreeing with you.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace whodoesntlikedinos.jpg, 44KiB, 584x417

Merrill of the Iron Rangers Sat 24 Jan 2015 00:29:47 No.37574506 Report

Quoted By: >>37574832

>>37574160

Lord Captain Kitten !!JN5xiNYXCkX Sat 24 Jan 2015 00:30:22 No.37574517 Report

Quoted By: >>37574581 >>37574832

>>37574419
>pdf with more info
Yes please.

>>37574463
>Disagreement
I may be wrong, however I think Alex is in support of a BB/Gor merger, but we are debating how best to conduct this. I would rather that the Gorgers are initially the primary while the Blood Bound are introduced over time. It appears Alex would like the Blood Bound to be the primary theme with traces of gorger topics.

The only motive here is to make a cool legion and contribute, I have no ulterior motives here.

Lumey Sat 24 Jan 2015 00:34:09 No.37574581 Report

Quoted By: >>37574828 >>37574832

>>37574517
>we are debating how best to conduct this
But you told me up thread that things were settled and you were going ahead. ("No longer a proposal".)

More importantly, could you please post the agreement stuff so that I can stop guessing what's going on? I am trying not to be suspicious, but you keep changing your story.

Lord Captain Kitten !!JN5xiNYXCkX Sat 24 Jan 2015 00:47:13 No.37574828 Report

Quoted By:

>>37574581
Well, debating how to best proceed.

>Looks through the thread

So, either I made a baseless assumption or I cannot find the post. Perhaps Alex can add some thought on this?

Slyte Sat 24 Jan 2015 00:47:29 No.37574832 Report

Quoted By: >>37574869 >>37575048

>>37574581
>>37574517
>>37574506
>>37574419
>>37574388
>>37573904
Long time lurker here, with a quick question;
You guys want to have a defined end point for this?
26 legions would be fun as fuck, so long as you take the time to map out events with some kind of consistency.
What's the end game of the Hektor Heresy, and why does it require the *deletion* of legions?

Lumey Sat 24 Jan 2015 00:49:11 No.37574869 Report

Quoted By: >>37574881

>>37574832
>You guys want to have a defined end point for this?
No.

Lord Captain Kitten !!JN5xiNYXCkX Sat 24 Jan 2015 00:49:53 No.37574881 Report

Quoted By: >>37574971

>>37574869
What about determined goals? That might helps us better organize this project.

Lumey Sat 24 Jan 2015 00:54:36 No.37574971 Report

Quoted By: >>37575057

>>37574881
>What about determined goals?
Not really. There's stuff I'd like to talk about that not having the story of the Heresy (the war) properly sketched out prevents, so I'd like that to happen. Other bottlenecks might emerge, but this isn't a professional project with definite deadlines and targets.

Anonymous Sat 24 Jan 2015 00:58:56 No.37575048 Report

Quoted By:

>>37574832
>26 legions would be fun as fuck, so long as you take the time to map out events with some kind of consistency.

And therein lies the problem, There is no consistency at the moment. That's why we want to lower the number of Legions.

Lord Captain Kitten !!JN5xiNYXCkX Sat 24 Jan 2015 00:59:32 No.37575057 Report

Quoted By: >>37575197

>>37574971
That's why I suggested goals. It is a non-committal way of giving people a target to work towards. They don't *have* to be met, but it provides something of reference.

Lumey Sat 24 Jan 2015 01:07:22 No.37575197 Report

Quoted By: >>37575527

>>37575057
You're babbling, dude. If individual contributors want to set themselves goals, that's great, but as soon as there's someone laying out the goals (and targets), there's pressure on people to produce.

Whatever might have been assumed above, I don't want that, and a lot of people here have voiced their strenuous opposition to it. Maybe they were just against it because they thought I was for it.

But I doubt that.

Onyx Sat 24 Jan 2015 01:12:18 No.37575273 Report

Quoted By:

>>37574070
primitive doesn't mean dumb, it just means simple
the idea is that they forgot all their customs and culture in order to survive.
also griots would be a great idea, with the bone singers literally singing wraithbone

Lord Captain Kitten !!JN5xiNYXCkX Sat 24 Jan 2015 01:25:53 No.37575527 Report

Quoted By:

>>37575197
Babbling? That's rude.

I'm saying a suggestion is more appropriate here than a demand.

Serennus Tumawl Sat 24 Jan 2015 02:47:31 No.37576991 Report

Quoted By: >>37577198

>>37571153
Hello, this is the anon that made up the Gore Suns. Please do spell check as much as possible. Thanks for taking an interest in the Chapter.

Alexandri, Inferox Sat 24 Jan 2015 02:59:13 No.37577198 Report

Quoted By:

>>37576991
No problemo dude. I'll do it tonight.

Anonymous Sat 24 Jan 2015 03:04:18 No.37577292 Report

Quoted By:

See you later, space cowboy.

Brennus, the High King Sat 24 Jan 2015 05:04:39 No.37579422 Report

Quoted By:

>>37568771
Answered most of these. Still largely in favor of the proposal (though as I mentioned when first shown the proposal, I would make a few changes, and my votes reflect that); I think I particularly like folding the Sand Keepers into the Sons of Fire. And, from my experience in the IRC the plan seemed like it was Alex's. If the proposal or some variant of it is NOT accepted, though, I'll volunteer to take on another dead legion.

Alexandri, Inferox Sat 24 Jan 2015 07:43:46 No.37582253 Report

Quoted By:

Bump.

Anonymous Sat 24 Jan 2015 10:32:12 No.37583951 Report

Quoted By:

bump

Subject

Name

E-mail

Password

Capcode	All Only User Posts Only Verified Posts Only Moderator Posts Only Manager Posts Only Admin Posts Only Developer Posts Only Founder Posts
Show Posts	All Only With Images Only Without Images Only Spoiler Images Only Non-Spoiler Images
Deleted Posts	All Only Deleted Posts Only Non-Deleted Posts
Ghost Posts	All Only Ghost Posts Only Non-Ghost Posts
Post Type	All Only Sticky Threads Only Opening Posts Only Reply Posts
Results	All Grouped By Threads
Order	Latest Posts First Oldest Posts First

This website uses cookies for some features and usage tracking.

On these archives

Your latest searches

The Hektor Heresy: Successors. Successors everywhere.

This website uses cookies for some features and usage tracking. Show purposes Reject Cookies Accept Cookies

On these archives

Your latest searches

This website uses cookies for some features and usage tracking.