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/5eg/ - Fifth Edition General

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 22:53:33 2017 No.56292610 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>56292723 >>56293135 >>56293885

Welcome to the D&D 5th Ed. General Discussion Thread

>Xanathar's Guide Table of Contents
https://web.archive.org/web/20171016180500/https://www.dndbeyond.com/members/BadEye/articles

>Forge Cleric - Xanathar's Guide
http://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/DnDXL2017_Forge.pdf

>Unearthed Arcana: Fiendish Options
https://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/UA_FiendishOptions.pdf

>Trove
https://rpg.rem.uz/Dungeons%20%26%20Dragons/D%26D%205th%20Edition/

>5etools
https://astranauta.github.io/5etools.html

>Resources
http://pastebin.com/X1TFNxck

Previously, on /5eg/...
>>56286994

What's the best/worse refluff you've ever seen played?

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 22:56:05 No.56292661 Report

Quoted By: >>56292718 >>56292751 >>56292753

Casters>martials

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 22:59:43 No.56292718 Report

Quoted By:

>>56292661
REEEEEEEEE WIZARDS ARE FAT THAT'LL SHOW YOU

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 22:59:59 No.56292723 Report

Quoted By:

>>56292610
The best refluff I ever saw in 5e was a Path of the Zealot Barbarian played as a Orlando Furioso knock off, i.e. what happens when a Paladin loses his shit due to a curse but still can gather what remains of his consciousness to fight.

Worst? None so far, most if not all people in our tables are decent players and can design good characters mechanics and roleplay wise. In fact, so far I am the "worst" because I'm a newcomer.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:01:22 No.56292746 Report

Quoted By: >>56292771 >>56292783 >>56293060 >>56294089 >>56294223 >>56294259 >>56294459 >>56294778 >>56295271

I
WANT
A
PROPER
GISH
CLASS
GOD
DAMN
IT

STOP MAKING ALL THESE SUBOPTIMIZED VARIANTS
EITHER LET PEOPLE PICK THEIR ARCHTYPES AT LEVEL 1 SO THAT YOU AREN'T EVER WASTING RESOURCES OR MAKE ME A PROPER GISH CLASS

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:01:37 No.56292751 Report

Quoted By:

>>56292661
Martial>(you)
Wish wizard encourage fighter to continue fighting over long period of time.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:01:42 No.56292753 Report

Quoted By:

>>56292661
Casters<martials

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:01:57 No.56292758 Report

Quoted By: >>56292782 >>56292805 >>56292821 >>56292998 >>56293207 >>56293415 >>56294234

So I just had my first session DMing last week and my second session is coming up. A couple of my players keep joking around about buying an inn, but I am increasingly worried they are completely serious. I'm using the ol' fashioned "an evil force is manipulating a bunch of different actors to destabilize the realm" plot and if my players are busy running an inn.... well my God of Chaos and Destruction is going to have a good time.

Should I just let them? Is there a way to make it difficult to actually run it for in universe reasons as opposed to saying no?

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:02:34 No.56292771 Report

Quoted By: >>56292798 >>56294089

>>56292746

does someone have to post that gish image every fucking thread?

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:02:35 No.56292772 Report

Quoted By: >>56292800 >>56293195

How does War Wizard look? Is EK/War Wizard a decent gish?

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:03:19 No.56292782 Report

Quoted By: >>56293098 >>56294087

>>56292758
If they want to run the inn, let them run the inn and then have BBEG wreck it, making it personal for them.

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Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:03:22 No.56292783 Report

Quoted By:

>>56292746
Hide gish threads, ignore gish posts, do not reply to gish posters.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:04:07 No.56292798 Report

Quoted By: >>56292844 >>56292992

>>56292771
I guess paladin, bladesinger, EK and valor bard aren't really gishy.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:04:09 No.56292800 Report

Quoted By: >>56293195

>>56292772
War Wizard is kinda not interesting. Its just not that good at battles and looses all the cool stuff other wizards get.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:04:14 No.56292805 Report

Quoted By: >>56293098

>>56292758
you should let them, and have that tie in with the plot. Running an inn would let them get many rumors, offer them reliable NPCs to run it when they're gone. Send enemies after the inn, or unpleasant minions from the BBEG, making it a personal affair.

Gish class? It's called Bard holy shit. If you want to be Gish go Bard or Paladin.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:05:27 No.56292821 Report

Quoted By: >>56293098

>>56292758

>>BBEG is a threat to business AND even the inn itself
>>Problem solved

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Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:05:58 No.56292833 Report

Quoted By: >>56292846 >>56292986 >>56293351

Curse of Strahd spoiler/advice
When asked about the Mongrelfolk, would the Abbot speak freely of his mistake? I think it'd be in character for him to shamelessly explain what happened, but I'm not sure how badly he'd think he fucked up. 'Cause if I'm reading the story correctly, he did fuck up quite hard.

Thoughts?

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace Dice Probabilities.pdf, 1MiB, 1x1

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:06:23 No.56292839 Report

Quoted By: >>56292888 >>56292947

Right, like I threatened to do: the dice probabilities for skill checks in 5e.

This might be useful, or might not be. But it's done.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:06:42 No.56292844 Report

Quoted By:

>>56292798
The ranger is tho

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:06:48 No.56292846 Report

Quoted By:

>>56292833
He 100% believes what he does is correct. A man walking the path of justice has nothing to hide.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:08:41 No.56292882 Report

Quoted By: >>56293048 >>56293096 >>56293151

I'm going to be running a game for some close friends at some point and someone has stated their intention to be a were animal. How would one go about balancing something like that for an entire campaign? I'd rather not just say no to the request, but something like that would be game breaking at early levels and useless later on.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:09:17 No.56292888 Report

Quoted By: >>56292929

>>56292839
How would you use it?

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:11:25 No.56292929 Report

Quoted By: >>56292943

>>56292888
They're useful for codifying exactly how hard a DC-whatever check actually is for your party.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:12:05 No.56292943 Report

Quoted By: >>56293076

>>56292929
So... How would you use it?

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:12:29 No.56292947 Report

Quoted By:

>>56292839
this seems also useful for AC. As a rough estimate, the enemies have a 50% chance to hit ACs 17-18, righto? Huh, suddenly 20 AC seems a lot more powerful.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:12:53 No.56292956 Report

Quoted By: >>56293029

Now that we know most of the subclass abilities...

Xanathar's subclass tier list?

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:14:20 No.56292986 Report

Quoted By:

>>56292833
He doesn't quite get why what he did was wrong
He saw them without souls but he doesn't have one either, he *is one* so all he did was try make the creatures more like himself
You want wings? I got wings, and I'm fine, sure I'll give you some!

His regret is not in the mutation of their flesh but his failure in understanding what is at the heart of them

Conversely it is why Vasilka will never work. She lacks the full measure of a human soul.

When the players gave my abbot this insight he bade them for fetch him a soul. And so they did, from Morgantha bag

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:14:38 No.56292992 Report

Quoted By: >>56293005 >>56293122

>>56292798
>Paladin
Stuck to DIVINE Magic
>EK
Sub optimized. I barely get any magic options.
>Bladesinger
MAD syndrome, sub optimized
>Valor Bard
Barely any magical options, no freedom, have to sing to properly RP

I just want a warrior who can pick one or two schools of magic and get as far as the Wizards in can in those fields without dealing with CAD.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:15:03 No.56292998 Report

Quoted By: >>56293098

>>56292758
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8VwE92HqME

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Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:15:33 No.56293004 Report

Quoted By:

Stat me if I'm wrong

Hexblade Warlock, V.Human for Heavy Armour?

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:15:34 No.56293005 Report

Quoted By:

>>56292992
> have to sing to properly RP
Nigga you dun goof'd, also magic secrets for Bards

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Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:15:37 No.56293007 Report

Quoted By: >>56293219 >>56293243 >>56293905

mfw I get a free pass to be a murderhobo because Half-Orc
>mfw I’d live in squalor regardless of being in an adventurer group
>mfw I wouldn’t bathe regardless of being an adventurer
>mfw I can let my armor rust and it only makes me look intimidating
>mfw I can freely jump into disgusting substances and grapple gross monsters because that shits my jam
>mfw I can just break shit in an autistic rage instead of dicking around with keys and locks
>mfw the party doesn’t take me along for tedious, queer diplomacy missions and I get into solo shenanigans
>mfw sissy Elves don’t even talk to me because I’m too much for their dainty senses
>mfw I can eat raw meat, drink blood and too much ale, pass out, fart, and burp all night and the party shrugs it off
>mfw I just Intimidate anyone without caring about feelings and social skills
>tfw I can ignore Wis, Int and Cha because people just expect me to be stupid as shit
>tfw I can still randomly roll 20s and grab that barmaid for the night from the Bard for a night of loud, disgustingly sticky Chad sex

Holy shit, bros. When did you realize Half-Orcs are the master race?

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:17:02 No.56293029 Report

Quoted By: >>56293070

>>56292956
Glamour Bard
Forge Cleric
Storm Herald Barbarian
War Mage

Every one else

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:18:14 No.56293048 Report

Quoted By: >>56293096 >>56293196

>>56292882
You could endulge them, allowing the Shaper race from Eberron (there's an UA out there for this).
You could also make it a different curse, or a curse so ancient it became something else/genetic. Shiftshaping would be allowed socially in some traditional events, tribal shit, that kind of stuff.
I'd obviously remove the immunity to mundane damage in any case, but you could also just... fluff barbarian rage as some kind of shapeshifting. They'd still get resistance on non-magical damage, which is pretty good - and they'd get the tribal/bestial theme as well if they so choose.

Now that I think on it, Barbarian Rage is probably the closest you can get. You could go Totem, or a mix of Berserker & Battlerager.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:18:47 No.56293060 Report

Quoted By:

>>56292746
Just shut the fuck up and play a Fighter/Wizard or a Paladin, both are fine for a gish.
>Suboptimized variants
Be more specific (and don't say "casting spells through your weapon" or full caster progression)

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:19:23 No.56293070 Report

Quoted By: >>56293167

>>56293029
how good is storm herald barbarian in Xanathar's? Might be interested

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:19:41 No.56293076 Report

Quoted By: >>56293124

>>56292943
It might be useful for a DM when making adventures. However I'll admit I mostly made it in order to win arguments as to whether or not making a check with proficiency is materially better than making a check without it.

(Case and pint, the argument from yesterday as to whether a Rogue with Stealth is better than a wizard with Invisibility)

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Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:20:11 No.56293084 Report

Quoted By: >>56293116 >>56293136 >>56293149

So my OoV Paladin has 16 in Con, and i'm trying to figure out if it's worth it to pump it +2 with an ASI or get Resilient (CON) and just leave it odd.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:20:35 No.56293096 Report

Quoted By:

>>56292882
>>56293048
He means Shifter race.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:21:04 No.56293098 Report

Quoted By: >>56293149

>>56292782
>>56292805
>>56292821
Ok, I might subtly drop a hint that the owner of the main inn of the small town they are supposed to pass through is thinking of getting out of the business. And then one day, BOOM!, some minions I haven't thought of yet ransack the place.

>>56292998
While funny, this also scares me.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:22:30 No.56293116 Report

Quoted By: >>56293173

>>56293084
What are the rest of your stats like?

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:22:40 No.56293122 Report

Quoted By: >>56293157

>>56292992
>get as far as the wizards can in those fields
Fuck off, even being limited to two schools you can't expect level 9 spells. Play an EK/Wizard, take High Elf or Magic Initiate if you have to start at level 1 so you can cast right away, and stop being a whiny baby.
I'm an admitted gishfag myself but goddammit the entitlement of people who want a "proper gish class" is nauseating.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:22:47 No.56293124 Report

Quoted By: >>56293269

>>56293076

Wouldn't that depend on all kinds of factors though? The wizard can be proficient in stealth, but the rogue can be expertised, but maybe it's a noisy area and no one's going to hear the invisible wizard

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:23:16 No.56293135 Report

Quoted By:

>>56292610
Anyone leaked Shadow Sorc yet?

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:23:16 No.56293136 Report

Quoted By: >>56293173

>>56293084
Well, what are the other stats...

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:23:52 No.56293147 Report

Quoted By: >>56293176 >>56293607

I just want clerics to have more high level spell options. Why not?

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:23:57 No.56293149 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293098
Let the inn become their base of operations, and from there you can send them questing around anywhere you like. Let them rest for a bit before giving them plot hooks, give them the chance to invest a bit of gold to pimp their shit, maybe carouse in the inn and as they invest gold in it foreigners, nobles, and even fellow adventurers come visit and have fun with them and share stories and send them to adventure.

>>56293084
16 CON is already pretty good for a Pally, I'd instead boost CHA, STR, or get a feat like Polearm master or GWM for your troubles

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:24:00 No.56293151 Report

Quoted By:

>>56292882
Have them play a totem Barbarian, Refluffing the animal as the appropriate totem (a wereraven for example would be an Eagle path)
You say their limited number of rages stands on for "control over their rage" and they turn into their hybrid form when they do so
From then on, you can use my Schizophrenics System. every time they run out of rages and have to make Wisdom or Constituition saves, you roll a Moon Die. On a 1,they Polymorph into that animal and can't come back until a long rest.
If they somehow get forcefully pushed back into their humanoid shape somehow (0 hit points / moonbeam) the failure is now a 2 or lower

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:24:24 No.56293157 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293122
don't worry, guy's just shitposting

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:25:03 No.56293167 Report

Quoted By: >>56293176

>>56293070
I don't know about good, but it's metal as hell that's what it is.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:25:40 No.56293173 Report

Quoted By: >>56293208 >>56293224 >>56293300 >>56293432

>>56293116
>>56293136
My bad, my dumbass.

We rolled stats: 18, 15, 15, 13, 11, 8

STR got the 18, CHA got one of the 15's, and CON got the last 15. My other stats are set, only option might be to pump CHA to 20, but I feel like 18 would be solid and OoV gets more out of a few feats.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:25:52 No.56293176 Report

Quoted By: >>56293223 >>56293607

>>56293147
dude clerics are already monsters and have their domains, don't forget those!

>>56293167
Imo Path of the Zealot is more metal. Reminds me of Orlando Furioso when the Paladin Roland goes batshit insane and still is full of win.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:26:47 No.56293195 Report

Quoted By:

>>56292800
>>56292772
War Wizard is a bit boring on its own (except that they made Power Surge a little more dynamic and interesting) but its shield ability (which restricts you to only casting cantrips on your next turn) pairs really well with an EK since they can use War Magic.
It looks like it would be strong with EK but I still think Abjuration is a better multiclass school since you can soak damage for your party members with your ward, and upcast Shield to heal your ward up quickly since you have "empty" higher level slots from multiclassing.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:26:53 No.56293196 Report

Quoted By: >>56293268

>>56293048

I like the idea of rage for that. I was also thinking about adding a level of exhaustion whenever they left the form and having some kind of social malus for being afflicted with the curse. Other than that I was thinking about having it start off weak but increase in damage and HP every so many levels as with cantrip rules and possibly a feat to prevent unwilling transformations caused by a full moon because I am absolutely intending on having them roll not to attack the party from time to time.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:27:41 No.56293207 Report

Quoted By:

>>56292758
>The only people who can save the lands are a bunch of peasants in a village somewhere
Some other fuck saves the day while they get their 'Daily Life of an Inn at the End of the World', doing adventures to fund their inn, get new supplies, attract customers and put up more centrepieces around the inn.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:27:55 No.56293208 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293173
Can't go wrong with 20 strength.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:28:06 No.56293213 Report

Quoted By:

So /5eg/, can you enlarge/reduce the earth?

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Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:28:32 No.56293219 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293007
>mfw DM tries to punish my fetid lifestyle with diseases, but my CON is too high
>mfw Team needs me around because I’m the best goddamned tank around
>mfw I use my body odor and vomit of rotting meat and blood as weapons
>mfw I tote corpses around to use and blunt weapons and shields for arrows
>mfw I can fall 4 stories and just get up because of my Racial Ability

I’m a curse on my party, but they all love me for some reason

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:28:40 No.56293223 Report

Quoted By: >>56293250

>>56293176
>and have their domains

Yeah, those domains stop at level 5 spells. Once you get into higher levels. You stop being a cleric of [domain] and start being a generic cleric with only a handful of high level spells to choose from and no flavor beyond holy cleric shit.

If I'm a war cleric I want to get some war-related shit at those levels, same if I'm tempest or nature or whatever the fuck else.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:28:49 No.56293224 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293173
Imo boost CHA and CON then, you'd get a lot of mileage out of that, and max out CHA. All the spells, all the power.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:30:03 No.56293243 Report

Quoted By: >>56293340

>>56293007
>He's a walking strength check
Can't wait until the wizard learns bigby's hand and completely replaces you

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:30:29 No.56293250 Report

Quoted By: >>56293393

>>56293223
>Domains stop at level 9
>As do all campaigns

Though don't tell that to my Arcana Cleric, who is Symulacrum Contingency Mighty Fortress and Wish

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:31:43 No.56293268 Report

Quoted By: >>56293466

>>56293196
You are overcomplicating it. A lot.

Talk with your player about what he actually wants, and provide him with a character that does just that... by fitting in an already existing class/race combo. Refluff what's already there, don't... add unnecessary bullshit.
A Berserker Barbarian is already what you mentioned. Lots of HP/lvl, damage increasing on levels, resistance on damage, exhaustion after rage.

Everything else, I'd be VERY wary including them as a base. You're free to add magic items that allow the guy more control, but I'd advise strongly against this "you attack your party member" kind of shit unless the party (in its entirety) is willing to have that.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:31:43 No.56293269 Report

Quoted By: >>56293316 >>56293369

>>56293124
Probably. However it's a frequent complaint I see from 5e detractors; that either having Proficiency makes almost no difference in skill; or that the difference between being Proficient or not Proficient in a skill is essentially nil. For example, I once had to argue with someone as to whether or not an 80% chance of someone passing a DC 10 "Easy" skill check actually meant that the task was "easy".

It's a mathematically ridiculous assertion, of course, but sometimes actually seeing the math can help.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:31:48 No.56293270 Report

Quoted By: >>56293282 >>56293672

A'ight now that orcpub has been fucked what's our options for online character editors?

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:32:14 No.56293277 Report

Quoted By: >>56293324 >>56293364 >>56296711

Asking again from last thread, what should I do to bring this race into balance? I have removed wisdom from the magic resist.

Ability Score Increase.Your Intelligence score increasesby 2.

Size.Blood elves are between 5 and 6 feet in height. Your size is Medium.

Speed.Your base walking speed is 30 feet.

Arcane Acuity.Whenever you roll damage for any spell that deals acid, cold, fire, force, lightning, necrotic, radiant, or thunder damage, you treat any 1 on a damage die as a 2.

Arcane Resistance.You have advantage on all Intelligence and Charisma saving throws against magic.

Mana Shaping.You know one Cantrip of your choice from the wizard spell list. Intelligence is your spellcasting abilily for it.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:32:39 No.56293282 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293270
Make a character the old fashion way, I never used orcpub once

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:34:21 No.56293300 Report

Quoted By: >>56293332

>>56293173
>Rolling for stats
Anyway, if you're vengeance,
PAM >> Inspiring Leader >> Strength > Sentinel > Charisma >> Resilient(Con or Dex) > Con > Dex > Wis >> Int

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:34:40 No.56293309 Report

Quoted By: >>56293333

I still feel like Druid could use another subclass. Moon covers shape-shifting, Dreams covers healing/utility, Shepard covers summoning, and Twilight covers blasting.
We still don't have a druid subclass that benefits battlefield control, plus Land is still bad (possibly even worse now that the Guide is coming out).

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:35:06 No.56293316 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293269
>it's a frequent complaint I see from 5e detractors; that either having Proficiency makes almost no difference in skill
I've been thinking a lot on this recently, and I can see that early on that's pretty true. +2 is merely a 10% improvement which doesnt feel right. But then it becomes progressively very wrong, in my opinion.

However, I'm trying to go the "you can't use this skill if you have no expertise in it" for SOME tasks, and having lower DC in general for these rolls - or the roll is not just a success/failure kind of deal, but more of a "how well will you do that thing you are an expert at".

It's interesting, design wise if anything.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:35:35 No.56293324 Report

Quoted By: >>56293649

>>56293277
It's literally a better high elf.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:36:28 No.56293332 Report

Quoted By: >>56293401

>>56293300
>No GWM
What in the fuck is this shit?

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:36:28 No.56293333 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293309
We could have talked about it but then you revealed your tard power levels too soon

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Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:36:58 No.56293340 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293243
Haha shut up, wizard nerd

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:37:54 No.56293351 Report

Quoted By:

>>56292833
I let the background leave the implicit case where non-Belviews became mongrelfolk (as in the Belviews didn’t keep it in the family), and the whole town is reliant on him to keep the mongrelfolk away without killing them. He sees them as his children, and my players found it creepy when I referred to them like a parent and didn’t say anything but explain how their uniqueness made them purposeful and he cared for his children.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:38:40 No.56293364 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293277
This is dumb and you are dumb for making it.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:38:55 No.56293369 Report

Quoted By: >>56293416 >>56293491

>>56293269

I think you have a different conception of what a big difference and a small difference are than those people. For instance, on your chart, assuming 20 in a stat, a level 12 character who is proficient has a 75% chance of passing a 'moderate' skill check, and someone who isn't has a 55% chance. The difference between being proficient and not is only a 20% chance to succeed, that seems really small to me. At level 19 the difference is only 30%.

What you're basically saying is that a guy who spent years honing a skill, whose skill is second only to a true expert, only has a 30% higher chance at passing a 'moderate' challenge than a guy who is untrained.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:40:28 No.56293393 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293250

Arcana cleric is probably the best counterexample, but the levels from 10 to 16 are still pretty much dead.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:41:19 No.56293401 Report

Quoted By: >>56293443

>>56293332
>GWM on a paladin
It drops off at level 11 and especially if you get any +damage weapons.

Honestly it's not so bad between levels 1 and 10 especially if you can reliably have advantage quite often from something other than just channel divinity, so I'd probably put it in around sentinel's area, but by the time you hit level 11 all the other feats (inspiring leader, sentinel) are way more appealing.

Also it's the easiest feat to fuck over simply by the DM putting in more high AC enemies.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:42:06 No.56293415 Report

Quoted By:

>>56292758
Have someone related to the bbeg steal something from the players.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:42:18 No.56293416 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293369
You aren't a craftsman, specialist, or lifelong worker, you are an adventurer. I don't know why you think "proficiency" means anything more than able.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:43:18 No.56293429 Report

Quoted By:

okay guys, I wanna make a Goliath Barbarian. pls help.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:43:30 No.56293432 Report

Quoted By: >>56293485

>>56293173
I wouldn't take Resilient (Con), since you get +Cha to saves anyway. Pump Str or Cha instead I think.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:44:06 No.56293443 Report

Quoted By: >>56293473 >>56293517

>>56293401
Not having GWM on an OoV Paladin is a complete and utter waste of the Oath. The Vow of Enmity + GWM is a shitload of damage.

Not having that -5 +10 is a waste, i'd argue that GWM is essential to a well built Oath of Vengeance Paladin actually.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:45:37 No.56293466 Report

Quoted By: >>56293499

>>56293268

So suggest they try Beasthide/Razorclaw Shifter Barb?

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:46:09 No.56293473 Report

Quoted By: >>56293505

>>56293443
fuck off munchkin

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:47:02 No.56293485 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293432
The added proficiency would make it nearly impossible for me to lose concentration on shit like Haste, Bless, or even Shield of Faith if I had it up. But the fact that i'm already at 16 is what's souring me off of taking it, it seems like a waste. If I was odd on CON still, it wouldn't even be a question, but that's not the case.

My STR is sitting at 20 right now, and my CHA is at 18, next order of business is GWM (which I feel I should've gotten earlier to be honest) and then I have to decide what to do with that last ASI. It's a ways off to be fair, but I like to plan ahead.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:47:21 No.56293491 Report

Quoted By: >>56293630

>>56293369
In the interest of fairness, however, you're still comparing two people with 20s, just about the peak of human ability (in D&D). The untrained guy may not have any formal skill at, say, Stealth, but they still have incredible innate if largely untapped potential.

Also, consider the respective difficulties of hitting DCs 25. Our untrained level 12 with a +5 only hits DC 25 when he rolls a natural 20. The trained level 12, with a +9, hits it on a roll of 16-20. In other words, he is five times more likely to succeed at the hardest task either of them can attempt.

And the trained character can actually hit DC 30 eventually. The untrained character can't, no matter how much natural talent he has.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:47:23 No.56293494 Report

Quoted By:

Which Xanathar's subclasses do you think will actually get played and which will never?

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:47:34 No.56293499 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293466
Honestly, any barbarian works. Just refluff it as him "shaping" instead of raging.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:48:04 No.56293505 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293473
lol k fag

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:48:48 No.56293517 Report

Quoted By: >>56293546 >>56293568

>>56293443
At level 11, PAM is far more important. GWM is practically redundant on a level 11 oathbreaker paladin.
GWM works best on an oath of devotion paladin with at least a +3 charisma modifier, given that the flat to-hit increase work alongside advantage. The only issue is that it requires an action to use, which requires either anticipation of a fight starting or a turn before melee engagement. Oath of vengeance comes in at a very close second for wanting GWM if you don't include all that shit UA like 'every feature is just another way to get advantage': the paladin.

Before level 11 on most paladins, I'd say that GWM and PAM have similar worths, perhaps ancients being better suited to PAM. So, I'll say this:
Are you a variant human? If so, you can get both PAM and GWM by level 4. That gives you 7 levels of optimal usage.
Are you not a variant human? If so, you 'could' get both PAM and GWM by level 8, but it's not worth it, for 3 levels of optimal usage, just get PAM alone.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:50:09 No.56293540 Report

Quoted By: >>56294053 >>56294079

So the UAs that deal with battles on a larger scale such as in war seem kinda shitty.

Anyone got any homebrew or recommendations that might help?

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:50:23 No.56293546 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293517
>oathbreaker
I've never seen an Oathbreaker that wasn't sword+board, I don't know why.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:51:37 No.56293563 Report

Quoted By:

Any news about shadow sorcerer?

Did they nerf the Strength of the Grave

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:51:54 No.56293568 Report

Quoted By: >>56293604 >>56293618 >>56293824

>>56293517
Serious question: how would you handle loot for a polearm user? There doesn't seem to be much in the way of magical polearms.

Could you make a Holy Avenger, if they every get to that level, a polearm weapon?

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:52:29 No.56293580 Report

Quoted By:

By RAW, I want to carry small size wizards and range on my fighter giving them cover, full cover if possible.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:53:45 No.56293604 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293568
Well, you could go for a spear of backbiting, it is cursed and all though
A +x will work too

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:53:56 No.56293607 Report

Quoted By: >>56293634 >>56293657 >>56293684

>>56293147
>>56293176
I have to agree that clerics are already fucking awesome, but at the same time, they do lack a bit in higher level spells. For example, as of now, the only combat-worthy spell they have at 9th level is Mass Heal. Granted it is literally the be-all-and-end-all healing spell, but it'd be nice to have more options.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:54:32 No.56293618 Report

Quoted By: >>56293640

>>56293568
Well, magic items are the domain of the DM. They do not exist until the DM puts them in, but I think it's lame to rely on DMG resources for magic items considering a lot of the magic items there seem somewhat unfun 'Now you have this you no longer have any reason to use anything else and stick to this one waepon forever' shit. ... But not this is a rant about 5e in general.

Anyway, just think of something yourself, I'd sa. Magic items are one of the easiest things to homebrew.
Polearms should be the most abundant magical weapons, really, considering they're the strongest weapons.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:55:14 No.56293630 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293491

yeah but there's still no level of skill at which a trained person with 20 in the stat has a 100% chance to succeed and an untrained person with 10 in a stat has a 0% chance to succeed. Even with expertise.

I mean, there are things I can do reliably with no formal training that other people have barely any chance at succeeding at.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:55:24 No.56293634 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293607
if you're not casting spiritual guardians at max lvl you're an idiot anyway

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:55:50 No.56293640 Report

Quoted By: >>56293678

>>56293618
I gave my low-level party a +3 Net, the cunts.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:56:17 No.56293649 Report

Quoted By: >>56294539

>>56293324
High Elves get Dex, Darkvision, Wep Proficiency, immunity to sleep conditions, and a resistance to being charmed. The only things the races share are the cantrip feature, size and move speed.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:56:49 No.56293657 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293607

I just want to continue to be whatever flavor of cleric I picked past level 10, instead of the default generic holy man. After that point you don't get anything except the most barebones assortment of cliche holy spells imaginable.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:56:58 No.56293663 Report

Quoted By: >>56293685 >>56293726 >>56293737 >>56293758 >>56293918

Need ideas for boss mechanics.

The dungeon idea is: A necromancer raised several undeads to guard its treasure, the place its a old ruin in a desert.

The boss will carry a Greataxe of life stealing and its a undead, I was thinking in a mechanic where he could "eat" the souls of the defeated undeads in the dungeon, so he could real a amount of HP for each creature the adventurers defeated.

They are a party or 7 level 4 adventurers, what do you guys think?

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:57:32 No.56293672 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293270
The Orcpub subreddit has an archive you can import to fix it up.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:57:48 No.56293678 Report

Quoted By: >>56293944

>>56293640
Now that's something nice.

Shame all attacks with nets have disadvantage unless you abuse netfighting tactics.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:57:56 No.56293680 Report

Quoted By: >>56293719

Out of curiosity, how does rolling a set of dice and discarding the lowest affect the average roll? I'm either being dumb or it requires more than a basic understanding of statistics to figure out.

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:58:10 No.56293684 Report

Quoted By: >>56294316

>>56293607
I thought that if wish was around, so would be miracle. Apparently they nerfed clerics a bit for the late game, that sucks yeah. they believe that bullshit that clerics are for healing when clerics are for godly buffs and enemy debuffs and kicking ass like in PF

Anonymous Tue 07 Nov 2017 23:58:11 No.56293685 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293663
>heal*

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:00:30 No.56293719 Report

Quoted By: >>56293754

>>56293680
http://anydice.com/articles/4d6-drop-lowest/

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:00:42 No.56293726 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293663
Maybe. Have it so every time an undead dies, its spirit floats off towards the boss, even through walls. Maybe find some way to hint to the players that these are empowering the boss so they realize that to make the boss easier they have to find a way through while killing as few undead as possible, or set it up so they can immediately kill the spirits after killing the undead.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:00:59 No.56293729 Report

Quoted By: >>56293775

>None of the Sorc options have leaked

What the fuuuuuuck

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:01:22 No.56293737 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293663
that's stupid and counterintuitive. It wouldn't reward exploration at all.

Rather, make it so that it's a giant sketelal colossus with armor and sword made of bones, and that each skeleton in the dungeon they have forsaken gives it more health and attack because it forms part of its armor.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:02:30 No.56293754 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293719
Wow thanks, I must have been googling poorly.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:02:35 No.56293758 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293663
Eat feels wrong.
Make it have a shroud of screaming tortured souls that grant him maybe temporary HP.
It is functionally the exact same thing, that the players will feel chip away at the reserve as they attack and it feels clearer to what the point was

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:03:44 No.56293775 Report

Quoted By: >>56293804

>>56293729
I took a screenshot off that nerdarchy video but it had nothing of interest so I deleted it.
Go get it if you want

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:05:38 No.56293804 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293775
They skip straight past everything outside of the fluff for the Sorc pages.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:07:29 No.56293824 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293568
If you want to stay strict RAW, a +N polearm is always a good one.

Failing that, switching out the type of weapon to a polearm is USUALLY ok, but you want to take into account Polearm Master.

For example, a Flametongue Sword is powerful in that it deals an extra 2d6 every time it hits, which (except for 11+ fighters), is 4d6/round. As written, Flametongue Spear with PAM gets an extra 2d6 on top of that if the bonus action hits.

So if you do that kind of thing, you can either adjust it (e.g., make it do less damage or only work when you hit with the business end), or account for the extra power in your loot distribution to other players/campaign difficulty.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:08:07 No.56293833 Report

Quoted By: >>56293920 >>56293928

How do you do a battle that the players are supposed to lose/unable to win, without it feeling really shitty for them and actually being fun?

The short version is, they're in a spooky place with a Demon and I'm gonna have them encounter something way stronger than them. How do I naturally convey to them the gravity of the situation so they don't try to fight it but instead get the fuck out of there?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:10:57 No.56293874 Report

Quoted By: >>56293892

so my character will die at the beginning of next session 100%.
what do?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:11:52 No.56293885 Report

Quoted By: >>56293899 >>56293961

>>56292610
Are there any air tight containers that aren't the bag of holding?
I wish to contain phosphorus inside it.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:12:25 No.56293891 Report

Quoted By: >>56293910 >>56293970 >>56293980 >>56294097 >>56294117 >>56294629 >>56294894 >>56294950 >>56298222 >>56298671

What Xanathar's subclass is everyone planning on playing with their next character?

Debating between Cavalier or War Wizard here.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:12:28 No.56293892 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293874
Make a new one if it’s 100% chance

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:13:00 No.56293899 Report

Quoted By: >>56293932

>>56293885
White phosphorus?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:13:16 No.56293905 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293007
> Not just playing a full Orc
What is this, amateur hour?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:13:22 No.56293910 Report

Quoted By: >>56293975

>>56293891
>War wizard
Sounds like shit to me, the features are way less interesting than the 'proper' wizard features.
>Cavalier
Do it.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:13:39 No.56293918 Report

Quoted By: >>56293966

>>56293663
Have your boss be some sort of skeletal overlord thing protected by a shroud projected by a big fuck off wraith, the wraith is an amalgamation of the souls of every undead they kill, basically meaning any damage he takes is transferred to the wraith instead until it dies. When they kill an undead in the dungeon make a BIG point of describing how tendrils of energy wind off through the air towards the back of the place and an ominous sense of impending doom intensifies, maybe make it so if the thing is killed via radiant damage it doesn't get this so they have an out if they have a paladin/cleric in the party.

For the fight itself you want the actual boss to be a major threat and the wraith be more of an annoying wall of health with more support focused abilities, maybe have the boss be able to draw life from the wraith to supercharge attacks or something but at the cost of its life, again making sure to put a big emphasis on describing how the wraith dims and becomes more ethereal when he does it to give them a better idea of what's happening, which is to say the wraith becoming weaker to power this guy up.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:13:50 No.56293920 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293833
Several ways to approach this one.
- Have them see the demon attacking something else. Meta knowledge of how much damage it's capable of doing is often enough.
- Have an NPC identify it for them, and suggest a course of action ("RUN!").
- Describe it in dramatic and threatening terms. Give the players a chance to recognize it. If necessary, spell it out for them -- but usually "Wizard make an intelligence check to size this guy up". Even if he fails, you give them the "He looks pretty tough, but it's hard to tell just how tough". Unless the players are idiots, they now understand what's up.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:14:14 No.56293928 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293833
Why are they there in the first place? Build off of that - do NPCs warn them about the monster, or is the thing they're going to encounter something horribly out of place for the area? Leave environmental cues of how powerful it is - destroyed parts of the place, corpses of previous challengers, whatever takes your fancy. Have one of the PCs recognize what the monster is - and why they shouldn't be fucking with it. Emphasis how ineffective their attacks are.

Even if they're not meant to win the fight, make sure they win some sort of information, an item, a clue on what to do. They don't have to kill something to gain from it. When they gain nothing from an encounter besides potentially dying and wasting resources, THAT is when it feels shitty. Don't be afraid to go 'hey this is something you can't win by pure combat, you can always retreat' if they don't seem to be getting it.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:14:38 No.56293932 Report

Quoted By: >>56294701

>>56293899
yeah

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:15:16 No.56293944 Report

Quoted By: >>56294000

>>56293678
I think it might be the worst weapon the 5e system could possibly produce.

1.) Deals no damage
2.) It's a thrown weapon that almost always has disadvantage when thrown.
3.) Any + version of it still deals no damage
4.) Escaping the net requires only an average roll
5.) It actively works against having multiple attacks.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:16:18 No.56293961 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293885
Mason Jar?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:16:52 No.56293966 Report

Quoted By: >>56294010 >>56294169

>>56293918
Any idea of monsters that could be this wraith?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:17:01 No.56293970 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293891
Celestial Warlock

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:17:16 No.56293975 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293910
How so?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:17:38 No.56293980 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293891
Cleric of THE GRAVE

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:18:13 No.56293991 Report

Quoted By:

>>5629393
I don't know if theres anything like you are looking for, but good luck, work with your DM to come up with something maybe?
I know theres a rune in SKT that keeps you from suffocating so you could put white phosphorus in flasks in a vacuum

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:18:39 No.56294000 Report

Quoted By: >>56294157

>>56293944
It takes an entire action to get out of, though. Just because it takes an average roll doesn't mean anything when you can at-will potentially drain an enemy's entire action.

If you're a bard with net proficiency somehow and only one attack, you can either try to do 1d4 damage and give enemy disadvantage on next attack, or you can throw a net and possibly make the enemy waste one or more turns trying to get out again. Better yet, you can use cutting words to help ensure they don't succeed.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:19:48 No.56294010 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293966
Make one up anon, I can't really suggest anything beyond that without knowing more about your players, level, classes etc.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:21:40 No.56294053 Report

Quoted By: >>56294079

>>56293540
I thought the first UA was fine

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:23:09 No.56294079 Report

Quoted By:

>>56294053
>>56293540

Playtested it recently myself, I enjoyed it.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:23:30 No.56294087 Report

Quoted By:

>>56292782
>If they want to run the inn, let them run the inn and then have BBEG wreck it, making it personal for them.
You're a shit DM.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace Gish 101.png, 241KiB, 1824x870

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:23:37 No.56294089 Report

Quoted By: >>56294861

>>56292746
>>56292771
I think so...

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:23:57 No.56294097 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293891
Bone Knight from 3.5 through Oathbreaker Paladin. I just want to have a bone to pick with you.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:24:55 No.56294110 Report

Quoted By: >>56294133

Is Kiss of Mephistopheles in Xanathar?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:25:20 No.56294117 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293891
Either Cavalier or Grave Cleric

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:26:44 No.56294133 Report

Quoted By: >>56294431

>>56294110
no

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:28:08 No.56294157 Report

Quoted By: >>56294187

>>56294000
I mean true a net does give you the ability to at-will possibly succeed in draining an enemy's action, assuming you hit their AC, almost certainly with disadvantage, using what I'm sure is your Bard's miserable Strength mod. You will then have drained an action from them.

Or you could cast Hold Person because you're a fucking Bard.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:28:34 No.56294169 Report

Quoted By: >>56294228

>>56293966
I've been wanting to homebrew a high CR incorporeal undead, like a Wraith Lord or whatever. What level is your party and what CR are you looking for? Assuming they're level 5 or over any boss monster should have a higher CR than their level.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:30:10 No.56294187 Report

Quoted By: >>56294268

>>56294157
You can't cast hold person all day long, though, considering you have only so and so many spell slots.

I think Clerics would benefit the most. They never have extra attack, their at-will attacks aren't massively powerful but they do usually have at least a +2 strength mod with heavy armour and sometimes martial weapon proficiency to go with it. Depends on type of cleric.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:30:18 No.56294190 Report

Quoted By: >>56294212 >>56294284 >>56294305

>elves only need 4 hours for a long rest
broken race

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:31:34 No.56294212 Report

Quoted By: >>56294219

>>56294190
>20 hour of ___

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:32:17 No.56294219 Report

Quoted By:

>>56294212
ghey

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:32:30 No.56294223 Report

Quoted By: >>56294295 >>56294459 >>56294955

>>56292746
>Either let people pick their archtypes at level 1 so that you aren't ever wasting resources
This is an argument I can actually entertain. I wouldn't mind trying to homebrew a half caster class whose archtypes result in choosing between arcane/divine/???.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:32:43 No.56294228 Report

Quoted By: >>56294264 >>56294279

>>56294169
They're 7 level 4 characters, druid, fighter, barbarian, ranger, cleric, wizard and sorcerer

The boos I'm thinking in use is a Imperial Ghoul or a Deathwisp (but I think this last one would be overkill for them).

Either case the mains boss (not the wrait will have somewhat between 5 and 7 of CR) and it will use a Greataxe of Life Stealing

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:32:58 No.56294234 Report

Quoted By:

>>56292758

If they wanna buy an inn, let them buy an inn!

The inn can be their headquarters for a good mainly urban game.

Just stick that inn in a city. Now they have a vested interest in keeping an entire city safe. Of course they do - or else who will drink at their inn? If a murderous dragon cult wants to burn down the city block, your inn is a part of that. time to fuck them up.

They dont always have to be running it, but returning to it often to rest, heal wounds and interact with NPCs could be fun and you can intersperse world ending threats with occasional mundanity or social stuff for humour or roleplaying.

Think of it like Geralt's inn with dandelion in Witcher 3. Geralt is still saving the world and that kind of shit, but also sometimes he has to go get some fucking decorators involved or rescue one of his performers from a fucking serial killer.

I'd say having it gives you a lot more to do than not honestly. You can still have all the standard D&D plothooks just by dangling 'imminent doom!' in your players faces, but now you've also got a bunch of additional ones you can use.

A crime group is trying to extort your bartender! A purely social situation about a city official asking for bribes! A fucking vampire has been picking up patrons at your fucking bar!

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:34:33 No.56294259 Report

Quoted By:

>>56292746

Play 4e :^)

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:34:45 No.56294264 Report

Quoted By:

>>56294228
>boss

wtf is wrong with me today.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:34:58 No.56294268 Report

Quoted By: >>56294288

>>56294187
You can't reuse a net unless you want to go grab it from the guy you used it on. Assuming he didn't do 5 slashing damage, which destroys it outright.

Or you wanna carry like 30 weight of nets on you.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:36:00 No.56294279 Report

Quoted By:

>>56294228
>not the wrait will have somewhat between 5 and 7 of CR
Wraiths already have CR5. Just give it more hit points so it can survive for longer, then. 100 HP should do the trick.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:36:07 No.56294284 Report

Quoted By:

>>56294190
fuck that, its such a shit errata. elves need 4 hours of *trance* in my games, but a long rest is still eight hours.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:36:22 No.56294288 Report

Quoted By: >>56294411

>>56294268
If you have the 'mending' spell anywhere in the party then you can just pick up your used nets and fix them (if they did hae slashing damage and use that).
Clerics can get the mending cantrip.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:36:44 No.56294295 Report

Quoted By: >>56294459 >>56294578

>>56294223
See the magus from Dmsguild

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:36:49 No.56294297 Report

Quoted By: >>56294307 >>56294428 >>56294997

Is there any reason to play a fighter? Barbarians and paladins are just better

Even hexblade is better if you know what you're doing

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:37:36 No.56294305 Report

Quoted By:

>>56294190
It's really not. You can only get one long rest per 24 hours and a full hour of interruptions is required to stop a long rest. An elf getting a long rest when the rest of the party can't is an extreme edge case.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:37:55 No.56294307 Report

Quoted By: >>56294333

>>56294297

Battlemaster is probably the best martial.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:38:39 No.56294316 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293684
>I thought that if wish was around, so would be miracle.
have you even bothered to LOOK at the cleric class? Miracle is baked into the base class.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:40:28 No.56294333 Report

Quoted By:

>>56294307
It scales terribly, it might be the best from 3rd to 5th level

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:45:48 No.56294411 Report

Quoted By: >>56294553

>>56294288
But like as a cleric, wouldn't just beating the bad guy with a maul be a better use of your time?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:46:40 No.56294428 Report

Quoted By: >>56294466 >>56294505

>>56294297

Best ranged martial, best for abusing feats, benefits more from short rests (especially battlemaster) if your adventuring days actually go as long as intended. Extra Attack is pretty good.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:46:50 No.56294431 Report

Quoted By:

>>56294133
Aw, I liked that one. Thank you though.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace 228444-Magus_v1.2_by_Benjamin_Hu (...).pdf, 4MiB, 1x1

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:48:14 No.56294459 Report

Quoted By: >>56294578 >>56295180

>>56292746
>>56294295
>>56294223
Something like this? Maybe take some Sorcerer levels for Quicken and Twinned Spells or Fighter for Action Surge?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:49:02 No.56294466 Report

Quoted By: >>56294556 >>56294615

>>56294428
>feats
Why take feats over ability score increases

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:51:37 No.56294505 Report

Quoted By: >>56294615

>>56294428
>Best ranged martial
Revised Ranger is better

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:53:06 No.56294530 Report

Quoted By: >>56294634 >>56294854

The reason why Gishfags are so prevalent is the failure on the part of the developers to provide every class the same versatility and option in play style that magic users have.

Too many abilities or options or based around DAMAGE or useless. To slay the Gishfags, they really just need to make every class as variable as the Wizard. You say Subclasses do this, but most of them are just "you do slightly different numbers"

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:53:32 No.56294539 Report

Quoted By: >>56295238

>>56293649
Wait, so you called your homebrew race blood elves and didn't specify anywhere that they weren't an elf subrace. You also didn't include sub races for it or another ability score increase just because.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:54:32 No.56294553 Report

Quoted By: >>56294684

>>56294411
Nah.

You might as well be using a shield (Nets aren't two-handed, are they?) for +2 AC rather than having a shitty melee attack with the martials can easily outdo. Just us a cantrip instead. A maul for +2.5 damage average over a d8 attack is hardly worth it.
And in fact, all that tiny damage is hardly worth it at all. You're much better off removing the enemy's action than maybe doing a tiny bit of damage while your martials are doing about 10x what you would have done.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:54:50 No.56294556 Report

Quoted By:

>>56294466
PAM, GWM, Sentinel; grab a magic halberd.

Have fun wrecking shit even if you do have only 16 Str.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace Lorraine Disgust.jpg, 3MiB, 3744x5616

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:56:02 No.56294578 Report

Quoted By: >>56294635

>>56294295
>>56294459
The magus meme needs to die.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:57:11 No.56294597 Report

Quoted By: >>56294617

I hear people talking already seeing Xanathar's subclasses. Has anyone posted them online yet?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:58:22 No.56294615 Report

Quoted By:

>>56294466
After capping out STR/DEX and upping one or two mental stats/CON, you've probably still got one or two ASIs left. A feat is a no-brainer, what with the benefits they grant.

>>56294505
I would take a Longbow BM Fighter over any type of Ranger any day.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:58:29 No.56294617 Report

Quoted By:

>>56294597
Every time someone asks this the online posting gets pushed back 36 hours.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:59:12 No.56294624 Report

Quoted By: >>56294645 >>56294652

So, why does the Warlock of the Fiend sheet from Volo's make no sense? It's a 17th level warlock, but his Mystic Arcanum is
>feeblemind, finger of death, plane shift
Two 7th level spells and one 8th level. What?

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace YCiQjpe.jpg, 79KiB, 461x720

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:59:13 No.56294625 Report

Quoted By:

>it's another DM that thinks 4 Hobgoblin captains twice a day for a level 5 party makes for good and balanced combat encounters

5e is literally drowning under the weight of shit-DMs

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:59:36 No.56294629 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293891
I want to try doing a Lawful Evil Oath of Conquest Pali that the other players think is an Lawful Good Oath of Crowns Pali.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:59:53 No.56294634 Report

Quoted By: >>56294728 >>56294847

>>56294530
>The reason why Gishfags are so prevalent

Is because Gishfags want a class that is as good (or better) at combat than a straight fighter and as good (or better)at magic as a straight magic user. Only willing to give up components of either that they were not going to use anyhow.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 00:59:54 No.56294635 Report

Quoted By:

>>56294578
This magus is nothing like the PF magus if that's what your thinking anon.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:00:23 No.56294645 Report

Quoted By:

>>56294624
It's a NPC

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:00:50 No.56294652 Report

Quoted By:

>>56294624
It's almost as if NPCs don't follow PC rules.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:02:54 No.56294684 Report

Quoted By: >>56294767

>>56294553
I looked up whether it was two-handed, and it isn't. But also, and I didn't realize this before, it's a ranged weapon. So you're ALWAYS at disadvantage when using it.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace giphy.gif, 3MiB, 400x327

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:03:54 No.56294701 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293932
Tell me more.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:05:56 No.56294728 Report

Quoted By:

>>56294634
You know after they released the Stone Sorcerer and Hexblade my needs got satiated pretty quickly. And this is coming from someone who came off from Pathfinder's Magus who basically was a combative whatever you wanted it to be type of Spellsword.

The Stone Sorcerer/Hexblade multiclass is pretty much the closet I think we are ever getting to a "Gish" class.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:06:33 No.56294738 Report

Quoted By:

No need for specifics but to the leak bros, are the new spells interesting enough for AL? I'm starting AL soon at my local game store and I'm not sure if I want my +1 to be Xanathar or SCAG, since SCAG has some amazing cantrips.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:07:20 No.56294746 Report

Quoted By: >>56294783 >>56294801 >>56294819 >>56294832 >>56295118

My players asked me to run a game "like Slayers" but specified they don't want to be the chosen one or have a nuke spell.

I don't know anime and I don't want to watch it.

Can someone sum up what this means for me real quick?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:08:56 No.56294767 Report

Quoted By: >>56294802 >>56294834

>>56294684
Still better than a normal attack. Just don't bother against high AC enemies.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:09:50 No.56294778 Report

Quoted By:

>>56292746
Hexblade is fine, the colleges of blades and valour are good gishes as well, what is the EK and AT?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:10:23 No.56294783 Report

Quoted By: >>56294832

>>56294746
It means they want to play high fantasy D&D with slightly more anime tropes

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:11:35 No.56294801 Report

Quoted By:

>>56294746
it means they should play 3.5 or Pathfinder after level 10. Martials should play like Warblades, Crusaders, or Swordsages, everyone else should be spellcasters.

It means an octane fueled, high powered awesome game with some silly moments yet also time for character building moments and awesomeness, while facing also tough times. When in doubt, give them the Sun and make them fight for the Moon. Give them what they want, and then make them go through a thousand chinese hells for literally everything else.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:11:38 No.56294802 Report

Quoted By: >>56294868

>>56294767
Nets: they're good when you're 15 or less feet away from a wizard while for some reason completely out of any other options, assuming the wizard didn't cast Mage Armor that morning.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:12:48 No.56294819 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293638

Because being grave silent will make it instantly come around by that logic.

It's not like 30-40 people are spamming it, it's maybe at most a handful of people, so it's not too big of a thing to get into a fuss over.

>>56294746
Flat chested sorcerer that has fuckton of maximized enlarged heightened slots bumps into idiotic fighter who go on adventures trying to get rich, bump into the escaping princess of a nation whom is a cleric, and bump into a cursed stoneskinned man whom is essentially the ranger. Both join their party.

Hijinks ensue with some purple wizard fucker tailing them and generally being secretive as fuck. A busty smug purple haired slutty sorcerer harasses the flat chested one often.

Dumb fighter becomes a paladin and finds a sun sword in the broken family sword handle he has.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:13:28 No.56294831 Report

Quoted By: >>56297371 >>56298209

question about CoS

what happens if we take Strahd's invitation? is it a lure to attack us? is it a plan to use us? can we use it to get the dragon bones?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:13:32 No.56294832 Report

Quoted By:

>>56294783
>>56294746
Basically anime fantasy tropes and a mostly light comedic tone.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:13:35 No.56294834 Report

Quoted By: >>56294868

>>56294767
>using your action to throw a net
>not just casting sacred flame or swinging your weapon
Why. Your DEX mod is probably shit and you're at disadvantage. A couple d8 of damage is better than nothing.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace tumblr_inline_nsiwnfz15B1r2b92e_ (...).gif, 2MiB, 480x360

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:13:52 No.56294839 Report

Quoted By: >>56294909 >>56294914 >>56294917 >>56295757 >>56296143

I had an artifact put a vague doom curse upon my group. They consulted a priestess who told them they wouldn't be able to break it with Remove Curse because of the nature of the artifact and set them on the trail of an old druid who would know the solution.

They've finally caught up with this guy as of the end of the last session. Here's my dilemma- this arc of the game has gone on way too fucking long (which is mostly my fault). I want this shit done and over with, but since this has gone on so long, I don't want this arc to end with an anticlimax.

How can I wrap this up in one session and still keep it interesting?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:14:10 No.56294847 Report

Quoted By: >>56294858 >>56294861 >>56294869 >>56295093 >>56295157

>>56294634
>Is because Gishfags want a class that is as good (or better) at combat than a straight fighter and as good (or better)at magic as a straight magic user.
Not true I'm a guy that wants a swordmage class, I would perfectly if it was a half caster with only the ability to wear light or at most medium armor with no shield proficiency.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:14:45 No.56294854 Report

Quoted By: >>56294928

>>56294530
No it's because people who play gishes are normally either spoilt , or quite simply are a bit on the slow side.

If people want more options for martials, then it leads to people talking about Fighter and Barbarian options that add more to the game. Gishes talk about wanting to be able to at least be as good as a Fighter, plus casting. Eldritch Knight is actually really fucking powerful, because there's so many buff spells and their level 7 just flat out makes them the best class at damage for a few levels at-will.

If you make a Fighter, give it half-casting instead and give it the casting with an attack without using bonus actions that also works with extra attack then you've just got overpowered garbage. Ranger and Paladin are both gishes in the core book so there is a class for it.

>inb4 Ranger and Paladin aren't gishes cause no arcane magic
A D&D Gish in most people's eyes is nothing like the original gish anyway so that doesn't matter at this point.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:15:11 No.56294858 Report

Quoted By: >>56295017 >>56295022

>>56294847
Bladesinger is a full caster with everything you just said

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:15:35 No.56294861 Report

Quoted By: >>56294943

>>56294847
Are you happy with whats in the game right now? Say like anything on this list? >>56294089

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:16:08 No.56294868 Report

Quoted By:

>>56294802
I'd say they're good against any opponent that has decent HP and low-ish AC and doesn't have claws. And it's either not strong enough for you to waste spell slots or you're running low on spell slots.
That's a bit niche, but not as niche as you're making it sound.
Of course if your martials are all sword-and-boarders without feats and without even duelling so they do piss fucking nothing for damage I suppose you might as well run around trying to maul things instead.

>>56294834
A low chance of shutting down an enemy for a turn is way better than a medium-high chance of doing shitty damage like that unless it's against a weak opponent.
A couple of d8 really isn't worth anything at all unless you're playing easy mode.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:16:13 No.56294869 Report

Quoted By:

>>56294847
Ranger, Paladin, Bard, Bladesinger, Bladelock and etc.

What's the issue? Every class aside from Barbarian has an option to use melee attacks with casting.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:16:59 No.56294880 Report

Quoted By:

I would do fucking anything to have Eberron added to the DM’s Guild.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:17:32 No.56294893 Report

Quoted By: >>56294917 >>56295363

PC level? Any details on the nature of this curse?Where are the players currently at/heading?

By what you've said, sounds like the old druid might need a hell of a lot of convincing depending on how much he might care about the plight of some random pcs.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:17:33 No.56294894 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293891
Divine Soul Sorcadin (the first kind of Sorcadin that actually makes sense)

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:18:20 No.56294909 Report

Quoted By: >>56295522

>>56294839
He has a fix for the curse, but it's temporary. They need to get back to the artifact to destroy it using means the druid provides. It works, but releases a sealed evil being that serves as an out of nowhere big bad. If you can tie other plot lines into it to make it meaningful then great, otherwise it can at least be a big battle. Make sure it summons/creates minions.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:18:33 No.56294914 Report

Quoted By: >>56295522

>>56294839
In order to break the curse, you have to go into a pocket dimension and fight the curse itself.

It manifests as a multi-stage boss (inb4 videogames), and each stage is themed after a minor mishap or rudeness that the party inflicted upon others. They must face their minor demons to break the curse.

So, stuff like a door slamming in their faces if they were rude to a shopkeeper. Just something directly tied to the characters.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace Druid grove winter.jpg, 815KiB, 1000x773

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:18:52 No.56294917 Report

Quoted By:

>>56294893
Meant for >>56294839

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:19:47 No.56294928 Report

Quoted By: >>56294951

>>56294854
the main issue is that pure martials are few, far between, and lack support from main material beyond a few paths that admittedly, rock, or in the Monk's case, you are a one man Bruce Lee stunning machine.

However, in the Monk's case, I'd appreciate a few tactical options beyond lol stunning strike, drop enemy prone so party or even you can wail on the enemy's ass.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:20:23 No.56294940 Report

Quoted By: >>56294993

This is the guy who's players want to buy an inn; there's a table that says it costs 5 gold a day to maintain an inn in a decently sized settlement. Does this make sense or should I change things up? There's also a d100 table for how the inn performs but I think that's dumb.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:20:35 No.56294943 Report

Quoted By:

>>56294861
I play a hexblade lock at the moment and used to play a pally. Yes there are good replacement options like the valour and blades bards, the AT, EK, hexblade ect. They just don't play like the SwordMage from 4th. Part of a reason I was kinda excited for the Stone Sorc.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:21:00 No.56294950 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293891
Draconic Sorcerer/Hexblade Bladelock to get the spellblade feels. While I do miss the Stone Sorcerer there are workarounds.

I'm also thinking about making an Ancestral Guardian as well, seems fun.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:21:07 No.56294951 Report

Quoted By: >>56295138

>>56294928
Play a Longdeath Monk with a feat to gain Athletics Expertise.

Trust me, being able to actually prone, shove, grapple, fear, stun and etc. make playing a monk way more fun.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:21:28 No.56294955 Report

Quoted By:

>>56294223
Just take Magic Initiate if you have to start at level 1, or be a high elf/half-high elf to get a cantrip.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:23:52 No.56294984 Report

Quoted By: >>56295136 >>56295175

Need a 3rd party opinion to prevent bias

Background:
>My girlfriend who has played lots of D&D (But not recently) fills in for a normal player during a one-shot
>Everyone likes her, a player drops out and my group recommends I let her join
>Tell them I am weary but I will if they promise to call me out if I start showing a bias, they agree
>Group is split 2-2 on this

So she is playing Lawful Good Light Cleric dedicated to Darstar. One of the few homebrew rules I have is that Paladins(obv)/Clerics have to follow their deities morals or risk consequences

To preface, there are no actual problems outside of the game, and I am 100% confident she will take any ruling in stride.
>Last few weeks her character has been increasingly aggressive with NPCs, she neglects to help one that is hurt, is not being a good cleric
>We all notice, the PCs call her out on her shit, she claims she has a lot on her mind
>Last session they ended up fighting some bandits
>They are murderhobos to begin with, but this time they attacked these bandits without any confirmation they were their target (They were but thats beside the point)
>Only two left, party is doing very well
>Cleric casts Toll the Dead on the Bandit (She had Sacred Flame prepared), killing him and yelling out "Be consumed by madness"

My question is, is using Toll the Dead (A Necromantic Cantrip that deals Necrotic damage), in your opinion enough the cause the Light Cleric to have to repent? I am thinking the Cleric's Symbol will crack, and she will lose -2 on all heals cast till she visits a Chapel and repents.

Either way I think she is going to be Neutral Good/Chaotic Good.

In case your curious if you break your oath in my games, you have to pick a Domain opposed to your original and become imprison (or kill if you resist) on sight until you find a way to make ammends. You cannot return to your original domain.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:24:25 No.56294993 Report

Quoted By:

>>56294940

Previous editions had building costs, my DM converted them to 5e and has allowed us to use it in our campaign. One of the players had a cleric who built a church for his god.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:24:44 No.56294997 Report

Quoted By:

>>56294297
Battlemaster and EK are both strong and fun. BM is probably the best archer in the game and can do great PAM/GWM damage too. EKs can get great defenses, decent AoE and control, and mobility (although Paladins and Barbs can get some of this also, I think they're still competitive).
Champion isn't weak but it's boring.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:25:51 No.56295017 Report

Quoted By: >>56295106

>>56294858
Bladesingers make more sense as sorcs. Given how their casting is an extension of their will and their person, seamless integration of magic and martial shenanigans seems like it'd be their thing.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:25:55 No.56295018 Report

Quoted By: >>56295071 >>56295179

Hey guys, I'm going to be a new GM and I'm going to be running a premade(Storm Kings Thunder) and since its a fair bit deadly I figured that if a player rolls poorly for stats they're kinda fucked. Is there any general opinion on the alternative stats that the PHB provides?

which is 15,14,13,12,10,8

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:26:10 No.56295022 Report

Quoted By: >>56295077

>>56294858
Justin ?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:29:15 No.56295071 Report

Quoted By: >>56295179

>>56295018
I always use standard array, but I always run groups to teach new players, it lets them all have the same tools to start off with while customizing their characters. Consider point buy too.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:29:42 No.56295077 Report

Quoted By: >>56295099

>>56295022
Kevin?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:30:39 No.56295093 Report

Quoted By: >>56295157 >>56295159

>>56294847
EK/Abjurer is a decent approximation of Shielding Aegis, just cast a bunch of Misty Steps for Assault Aegis with your million spell slots.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:31:00 No.56295099 Report

Quoted By:

>>56295077
Dad?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:31:15 No.56295104 Report

Quoted By: >>56295134 >>56295350

Can you guys give me some good ideas of spells for a buff/debuff character?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:31:21 No.56295106 Report

Quoted By:

>>56295017
Bladesingers and the original Gishes are very studious people. They train in swordplay, learn the theories of magic, study arts and everything.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:31:54 No.56295118 Report

Quoted By: >>56295188

>>56294746
"Like Slayers" usually means "the game world presents the usual cliched fantasy world and the PCs get to abuse genre awareness to mock the cliches and indulge in light metagaming." They're basically asking you to play straight man for them. Comic-serious balance is about like Thor: Ragnarok (to use a current example).

However, I would talk with them to get a clearer idea, especially since you've never seen the series.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:32:33 No.56295134 Report

Quoted By: >>56295167

>>56295104
What class? Sorcerer and Druid are actually really good picks for buff/debuffs. Druid especially.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:32:34 No.56295136 Report

Quoted By: >>56295447

>>56294984
>My question is, is using Toll the Dead (A Necromantic Cantrip that deals Necrotic damage), in your opinion enough the cause the Light Cleric to have to repent?
Is the spell an intrinsically evil act? No, no it is not. Dead is dead whether by fire, or steel, or whatever. The bandit isn't deader because of the spell.

However, given what she said and how she seemed to get a jolly out of it and in light of her recent behavior I think you've got grounds to open a character arc on her.

I'd drop the penalty to -1, but increase it if she continues her behavior and or doesn't repent. Add in some fluff to let her know what's happening and why. Also, changing her alignment based off of that alone is retarded.

>spoiler
>religious casters can't have redemption arcs
You are a tool.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:32:34 No.56295138 Report

Quoted By: >>56295188

>>56294951
I picked Way of the Open Hand because flurry of blows options seemed more fun, and our dm's not the type to let us swap around characters or feats so I think I'm stuck with it, not like it's bad. I still managed to grab Athletics and have a decent STR score, so I can do all that except fear.

But yeah, key word when playing a monk is fun. They aren't necessarily the biggest hitters, but on the other hand I have yet to see one thing they can't do reasonably well at. Respecteable AC, self healing, decent attacking power, good movement, defense against ranged attacks once per round, decent use of action economy.

They're jacks of all trades, which is a good and a bad thing, especially in d&d where specialization is so encouraged.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace Far Step.png, 319KiB, 777x360

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:33:47 No.56295157 Report

Quoted By: >>56295183 >>56295219

>>56294847
>>56295093
Consider getting the spell Far Step. Or just play a Stone Sorcerer and ask your DM for the spell.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace TelportSpam.png, 33KiB, 569x400

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:33:52 No.56295159 Report

Quoted By: >>56295176 >>56295200 >>56295219 >>56295236

>>56295093
>Shielding Aegis

4e Swordmage was soooo fun.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:34:19 No.56295167 Report

Quoted By:

>>56295134
Any, its for a npc.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:34:46 No.56295175 Report

Quoted By: >>56295447

>>56294984
Why the hell did you let her pick a cantrip that would instantly make her lose her powers? Why would you propose a home brew change (that's really just common sense, aside for paladins.) and not define it enough for you to not have to ask this question.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:34:58 No.56295176 Report

Quoted By: >>56295188

>>56295159
>4e
May as well play Mutants and Masterminds with a fantasy setting

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:35:27 No.56295179 Report

Quoted By:

>>56295018
>>56295071
I prefer point buy and if someone want to roll, go with 5d6 drop 2 lowest for best stat

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:35:28 No.56295180 Report

Quoted By: >>56295200

>>56294459
See >>56294459 or Stone Sorcerer.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:35:38 No.56295183 Report

Quoted By: >>56295211

>>56295157
Thunderbolt Step looks dope too
>3rd level, 60ft teleport
>all creatures within 10' of the point you teleport from take 3d10 Thunder (con save for half)

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:35:53 No.56295188 Report

Quoted By: >>56295210 >>56295401

>>56295118
Never seen it but I've always wanted to play a game like that. I'm a OotS fan though so genre awareness is my favorite.

>>56295138
Monk is one of those classes that is as fun as you let it. You're never the most optimal character (until high levels holy fuck) but you can just do 120 cool things which is awesome.

>>56295176
Actually wanted to try that one day.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:36:34 No.56295200 Report

Quoted By:

>>56295180
This was meant for you >>56295159

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:37:02 No.56295210 Report

Quoted By:

>>56295188
>Actually wanted to try that one day.
Mechanically its better suited to high end anime/comic'esq fantasy settings and campaigns than D&D

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:37:03 No.56295211 Report

Quoted By: >>56295254

>>56295183
Seems like it was made specifically for Storm Sorcerer. Their AoE hits 10ft. so they do 3d10+Half level, teleport 60ft and then fly 10ft.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:37:24 No.56295217 Report

Quoted By: >>56295229 >>56295240 >>56295254 >>56295266 >>56295324

Should gishes have access to 9th level spells?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:37:29 No.56295219 Report

Quoted By: >>56295266

>>56295159
>>56295157
where are you looking at the new spells

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:38:06 No.56295229 Report

Quoted By:

>>56295217
Not if they get martial capabilities beyond martial weapons and one extra attack.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:38:24 No.56295234 Report

Quoted By:

>should amateurs have access to professional skills?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:38:26 No.56295236 Report

Quoted By: >>56295277 >>56295345

>>56295159
I'm thinking of taking my group back to 4e. I'm kind of burnt out on 5e, and the more complicated combat would be fun.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:38:29 No.56295238 Report

Quoted By: >>56295286

>>56294539
I took out the ability score increase because people said it was unbalanced, I never said they were a subrace, and I didn't include any subraces because there's only one type.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:38:31 No.56295240 Report

Quoted By: >>56295336

>>56295217
Probably not. It's not even like they need it to get the feel of it down

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:39:07 No.56295254 Report

Quoted By:

>>56295211
Maybe, but it's also just a great melee caster/Swordmagey spell in general.
>>56295217
Fuck off.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace Steel Wind Strike.png, 526KiB, 766x597

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:39:46 No.56295266 Report

Quoted By: >>56295295 >>56296329

>>56295219
https://imgur.com/a/d2CkR

>>56295217
Stone Sorcerer and Bladesingers are full casters.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:40:10 No.56295271 Report

Quoted By: >>56295355

>>56292746
What the fuck does Gish mean?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:40:29 No.56295277 Report

Quoted By: >>56297410

>>56295236
Try WFRP 2e. It's a genuinely good system with great combat. A bit grittier and low-powered than 4e though, if you're okay with that.

All the books can be found here: khorne.ru/2nd

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:40:51 No.56295286 Report

Quoted By: >>56295388

>>56295238
You're still at it? Didn't you listen in the last thread? Your special resist everything, advantage everything, stat bonus everything, hey you get extra magic slots too race is garbage.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:41:24 No.56295295 Report

Quoted By: >>56295385

>>56295266
Stone Sorcerer didn't get printed for a reason, it was really way to strong. Everything about it needed a dial back.

Bladesinger is balanced because while it gets awesome casting, the martial side never beats any other martial. It's just a caster who can go into melee combat rather then use cantrips.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:41:37 No.56295302 Report

Quoted By: >>56295328 >>56295379

Xanathar scans, when?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:42:28 No.56295324 Report

Quoted By: >>56295336

>>56295217
>no

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:42:48 No.56295328 Report

Quoted By: >>56296486

>>56295302
36 hours later than we would have had it, thanks to you.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:43:20 No.56295336 Report

Quoted By: >>56295379 >>56295404

>>56295324
>>56295240
So are sword bards and blade pact warlocks not gishes, or are they badly designed gishes?

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace 20171007_171247.jpg, 2MiB, 3264x1836

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:43:40 No.56295345 Report

Quoted By: >>56295357

>>56295236
Already there. Party wiped at lv 15 when BBEGs showed up. We decided to take a break from that campiag and do 4ht ed for a bit. Pic is the party dealing with some zombies before getting wrecked by a storm giant.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:43:52 No.56295350 Report

Quoted By:

>>56295104
Anyone? Any class

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:44:19 No.56295355 Report

Quoted By:

>>56295271

It's an old word for an elite Githyanki caste of fighter/mages. Most people these days use it to describe magic/martial hybrids-however, everyone seems to have their own opinion about why certain hybrids are or are not a "gish".

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:44:22 No.56295357 Report

Quoted By: >>56295400

>>56295345
are you having fun with it?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:44:39 No.56295363 Report

Quoted By: >>56296143

>>56294893
Level 5, the curse is that they're going to die within the month (there are 14 days left) unless the curse is broken), they're currently heading out of a dwarven city where they caught up to the druid. They're heading for a place that the druid told them he'd meet them. I just came up with a place name on the fly, I haven't told them anything about the place except that there's an inn there where they're going to meet him. It could be anything from a city to a hole in the ground , as long as there's an inn nearby.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:45:30 No.56295379 Report

Quoted By:

>>56295302
If I remember a guy posted a while back him and another dude are gonna do the scans around the 22nd.

>>56295336
Swords Bard is really good actually, Blade Pact is great if you build it in specific ways that no one ever builds it.

The trick is to start with a single level of Fighter and pick up PAM and/or GWM. Seriously either of those actually make it pretty good.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:45:40 No.56295385 Report

Quoted By: >>56295436

>>56295295
>Stone Sorcerer didn't get printed for a reason, it was really way to strong. Everything about it needed a dial back.

The issue with Stone Sorcerer was that it came off better as a ranged combatant due to the AC values. I think it could have been fine with some edits.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:45:51 No.56295388 Report

Quoted By:

>>56295286
There was never more than two stat bonuses, I removed the spell slot, and therewas never a feature that provided advantage
Why are you acting like such an ass? At this point I'm thinking of just disregarding most of the advice I've gotten, seeing as how no one is constructive. I might even ask reddit for balancing tips.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:46:24 No.56295394 Report

Quoted By: >>56295459

Is EK/War Wizard going to beat out EK/Abjurer?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:46:57 No.56295400 Report

Quoted By: >>56295430

>>56295357
Honestly, as many mechanical advantages as 4th may have on 5th, I miss the simple straight nature of 5th ed. You can run a 5th ed game with like 5 min of prep because alot is left up to the DM. But, yea it's fun, if not a bit more structured.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:46:59 No.56295401 Report

Quoted By: >>56295436

>>56295188
being most optimal is only a concern when you're playing with munchkin size me characters. Actually I'm possibly the dude with the highest stats and the highest HP count in the party next to the Paladin due to very high rolls on my end for HP and poor CON and rolls on theirs, second highest AC due to good stat rolls, and 4 attacks per round is nothing to laugh at with movement and all the fun stuff you can do.

I could have picked another class, like OoV Paladin, but I feel this is for the better as I have already played nova burst damage dealers before, and this is a good change of pace from getting anxious if there is nothing to kill because that's what deep down my character's designed to be, more warfare weapon than man.

Next time I might play a spellcaster like the Cleric, those seem fun too. Thoughts on who are some cool spellcasters, gen/tg/lemen?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:47:01 No.56295402 Report

Quoted By: >>56295415 >>56295426 >>56295436

Which cleric school would be best for a dwarven follower of Moradin?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:47:06 No.56295404 Report

Quoted By:

>>56295336
Blade Pact is poorly designed because EB is better than their weapon and they get unlimited uses.
Sword/Valor Bard have quite weak martial sides, other than their Magical Secrets their spells aren't geared for sword-wizardry either but more for support. They're not gishes they're just competent at everything (and extra-competent at casting).

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:47:47 No.56295411 Report

Quoted By:

Can a brother get a scan of college of whispers?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:48:09 No.56295415 Report

Quoted By: >>56295428

>>56295402
Forge always!

Dwarves have been legendary smiths in all germanic legends, there is nothing more flavorful for a dorf than smithing stuff

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:48:37 No.56295424 Report

Quoted By: >>56295456

So I want to intentionally break Bounded Accuracy and reshape the spread of results from a dice roll while maintaining roughly the same percentage of success and failure within similar levels.

Basically, make higher levels harder to beat and lower levels easier to beat while keeping at level encounters much the same. Proficiency isn't that big of an issue to simple double it across the board since everything scales up with it. Instead of +2 to +6 people go +4 to +12, easy. Won't have to change much except some things that add flat values.

My big issue is Ability Scores, I'd like to increase them as well but I simply haven't found a decent way to scale them. I'd like everyone to still start at +3 but be able to get to +10. With the ASI every 4 levels that is frankly impossible. Should I add extra ASIs? Change how frequently people get them?

Anyone else try to expand the numbers in 5e? Not to 3.5/PF levels but a bit more than a mere +11 at level 20.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:48:44 No.56295426 Report

Quoted By:

>>56295402
Nature

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace reaction identify.png, 82KiB, 1139x811

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:48:49 No.56295427 Report

Quoted By: >>56295453 >>56295499

is this real? explain

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:48:51 No.56295428 Report

Quoted By: >>56295560

>>56295415
I honestly prefer brewer dorfs, desu senpai

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:49:02 No.56295430 Report

Quoted By: >>56295505

>>56295400
Actually, one of the reasons I'm interested in 4th again is because I thought my experience with 5e would help me be more improvisational when dming it. The combat is more structured, but I can see a lot of ways now to make the rest of it more freeform while still preserving the mechanically interesting combat.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:49:21 No.56295436 Report

Quoted By: >>56295547

>>56295385
The AC is busted for multiclassing, the Agies being at-will was probably a bad choice and it should've costed 1SP at least, Shield proficiency was kinda eh and the damage ability it got was just fucking retarded and OP when they got it.

>>56295401
Cleric and Druid are amazing, Wizards are good but not as good as people say and Sorcerers are fun if you want to focus on one element or type of spell.

>>56295402
Forge 100%. Your Dwarven Weapon Proficiency is also actually a huge buff for a Forge Cleric.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:50:08 No.56295447 Report

Quoted By: >>56295489 >>56295552

>>56295136
You have to be a REAL REAL motherfucker to actually lose your domain. Like the crack in the symbol is just dipping your toes in. The Cleric is absolutely in zero danger of being kicked out of her order.

It pretty much goes in this order to actually lose your domain for good. Right now she is at "something small happens"

Something small happens > Deity comes to Cleric in their sleep to warn them > Something more major happens (My go-to is Cleric has to roll a Religion check with a DC of 15-Cleric Level or the spell fizzles, no spell slot used) > Avatar of the Diety actually appears to the Cleric to warn them > Temporarily kicked out of their Domain (Needs to do something to be redeemed) > Actually kicked out of their domain

Pretty much if the Cleric atones for whatever they did wrong and doesn't keep doing it they are fine. The only way to skip steps in this is to do something absolutely awful (Mass Killing/Blood Rituals with Intent to Harm Innocents) and the only way to get booted straight out is to do something to with the purpose of harming your deity.

>>56295175
Because there is a time and a place for it. If any of these were true it wouldn't have been an issue
>She knew Sacred Flame/Hand of Radiance wouldn't be effective
>An innocent person/her party was in imminent danger
>The target was more evil than a fucking Bandit
>She didn't take joy in using it

She knew from the start as a Light Cleric she was expected to walk the Path of Light. It makes little sense for a Light Cleric to use Necrotic Damage Past Necromancy (I know Spare the Dying is technically a necromancy but it isn't harmful) when another Cantrip would do

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:50:39 No.56295453 Report

Quoted By: >>56295471

>>56295427
Instead of following Crawford's RAF ruling that you know a spell if it's on your spell list, Xanathar introduces that you have to roll an DC 15 + spell level Arcana check.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:50:43 No.56295456 Report

Quoted By: >>56295470

>>56295424
I just use a d100 system

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:51:00 No.56295459 Report

Quoted By:

>>56295394
Nah, the shield ability is good but you have to give up War Magic to get the retributive damage ability at Wizard level 14. The ward HP, the ease of recharging your ward by upcasting Shield or Counterspell due to your empty high-level multiclass slots, and the fact that you can use the ward to absorb a hit for your party make Abj better I think.
War is #2 though in my opinion, better than EK/Bladesinger.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:51:32 No.56295470 Report

Quoted By: >>56295544

>>56295456
How did you adjust the various modifiers like Ability and Proficiency?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:51:32 No.56295471 Report

Quoted By: >>56295502 >>56295504 >>56295553

>>56295453

Yeah, but as a reaction? How can I counterspell (or shield a magic missile) if I already used my reaction identifying the spell?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:53:17 No.56295489 Report

Quoted By: >>56295558

>>56295447
>Something small happens > Deity comes to Cleric in their sleep to warn them > Something more major happens (My go-to is Cleric has to roll a Religion check with a DC of 15-Cleric Level or the spell fizzles, no spell slot used) > Avatar of the Diety actually appears to the Cleric to warn them > Temporarily kicked out of their Domain (Needs to do something to be redeemed) > Actually kicked out of their domain
That seems a reasonable escalation.

>It makes little sense for a Light Cleric to use Necrotic Damage Past Necromancy (I know Spare the Dying is technically a necromancy but it isn't harmful) when another Cantrip would do
I'm not sold on this though, and I'd be pissed if I wasn't informed ahead of time about which spells / cantrips had moral weight and which didn't.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:54:18 No.56295499 Report

Quoted By: >>56296176,1

>>56295427
Jesus we just do

>You declare Counterspell as reaction
>If you have seen the spell at least once, or you would have had access to the spell I tell what it is
>If not you make a DC10+Spell Level Arcana check.

Also
>Referencing Critical Role

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:54:41 No.56295502 Report

Quoted By: >>56295653

>>56295471
You can't. A second caster in your party could if you identify the spell and tell them to counter it.
It's dumb.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:54:56 No.56295504 Report

Quoted By: >>56295567

>>56295471
You can still counterspell a spell you don't know, it just becomes a guessing game of what slot you use.

If your spell slot is too low, you gotta roll to counterspell it. If your slot is equal to or higher than the spell slot being used, you auto-counterspell it.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace 20171104_171811.jpg, 2MiB, 3264x1836

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:54:59 No.56295505 Report

Quoted By:

>>56295430
5th ed experience definitely helps you loosen up. Our first session had the party exhausted from all the shenanigans. For 4th, I always aim for over the top situations. Fight with a dragon? Active volcano. Dinner? Doppelganger assassins. Etc. Pic is the new party at the classic start of a tavern.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace BogdanMRK_High_Temple.jpg, 667KiB, 849x1300

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:55:14 No.56295511 Report

Quoted By: >>56295526

Does anyone know where one of those "comfy plot hook threads" is archived? There have been at least a dozen this year.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:55:51 No.56295522 Report

Quoted By: >>56295537

>>56294909
They can't destroy it, is protected by a God named Dee Emm because it is key to the plot.

>>56294914
The problem with this is that it would mostly focus on the party face for being an amazingly hilarious greedy Jew stereotype (doubly hilarious because I intentionally gave her race (elves) a list homeland and she is a pretty big whiny liberal)

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:55:55 No.56295526 Report

Quoted By: >>56295551

>>56295511
learn to 4plebs

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:56:54 No.56295537 Report

Quoted By:

>>56295522
Lost*

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:57:12 No.56295544 Report

Quoted By:

>>56295470
The d100 system I use is a departure from 5e in that stats are all based on a base stat + two random numbers.

For example, for humans all starting stats are 20+2d10. This makes the average stats across the board 31. Difficulties of tasks give plus or minus 10, 20, or 30 to the given task. So for instance hitting someone with a bow at extreme range would be a -30 to hit, which means they have to roll a 1 or lower on a d100 to hit. However, this is balanced out by their abilities and allies increasing these numbers.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:57:26 No.56295547 Report

Quoted By:

>>56295436
>The AC is busted for multiclassing
Lower it down to 11+CON it would be fine.

> The Agies being at-will was probably a bad choice and it should've costed 1SP at least

Agreed, I think the teleport needed a limit of some form (Sorcerery Points or CHA/CON mod limit) and the Agies damage reduction some equal to your proficiency bonus.

>Shield proficiency was kinda eh
I like Shields...

> the damage ability it got was just fucking retarded and OP when they got it.
Quicken Spell Booming Blades or Quicken anything really was really powerful with this and really needed a change.

I think all of this could have been fixed, it was not a lost cause. I still hope we get this one day.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:57:35 No.56295551 Report

Quoted By: >>56295635

>>56295526
I already did that you oxygen thief. I couldn't find one. So I outsourced the labor for a job I couldn't complete.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:57:37 No.56295552 Report

Quoted By: >>56295587

>>56295447
My problem with this, is that as you wrote it, she received no warning that this would happen. And unless I misread is basically being severely punished for her first crime , which constitutes casting a cantrip once.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:57:40 No.56295553 Report

Quoted By:

>>56295471
You'd still be able to shield a magic missile since you see its effects pretty clearly as they fly at you and shield is a reaction.

The spell ID rule is mainly for spells that don't have a flashy effect like Dominate Person or something. The Wizard just wiggles his fingers and says some bullshit words and something happens, you don't know what. ID it and bam, you know he just tried to dominate your Fighter and he succeeded.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:58:07 No.56295558 Report

Quoted By: >>56295587 >>56295676 >>56297059

>>56295489
When she was putting together her class I told her that Light Clerics generally frown upon spells/weapons that deal Necrotic Damage while they have a viable alternative.

Im thinking that for now I will have her notice a crack in her symbol as she goes for a rest, and allow her to pray to Darstar (And kind of remind her about the necrotic thing). I'd push it a bit farther and have her do a ritual/visit a place worship but it is her first offense

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:58:19 No.56295560 Report

Quoted By: >>56295575

>>56295428
I like mason dwarves

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:58:54 No.56295567 Report

Quoted By: >>56295628

>>56295504

yeah that's dumb as fuck though, because if I cast counterspell as a reaction any second caster on the enemy side is instantly going to know what spell I'm casting and not have to guess about whether they should counterspell my counterspell

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 01:59:23 No.56295575 Report

Quoted By: >>56295592 >>56295643 >>56295840 >>56296229

>>56295560
My dwarves are French as fuck

They're racist warriors with really good cooking

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:00:02 No.56295585 Report

Quoted By: >>56296464

What are the standout subclasses in Xanathar's that everyone is looking forward to?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:00:08 No.56295587 Report

Quoted By: >>56295654 >>56295658 >>56295676

>>56295552
See this >>56295558, and also other factor is the fact
1. She has been very shitty to multiple PCs, and didn't do her Cleric duty to help people in need
2. Reveled in the fact she killed the Bandit in a terrifying way

There have been other factors that have led to this. This is just the crescendo

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:00:39 No.56295592 Report

Quoted By:

>>56295575
I am completely okay with this.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:02:44 No.56295628 Report

Quoted By:

>>56295567
From a meta perspective yeah, but in universe people don't have reactions and bonus actions and shit. Everything in the round is happening about simultaneously so the enemy caster doesn't "know" you're casting counterspell. A clever guess might do it, but again, they have no idea what level your casting at, even if they ID it. So they now have to make a gamble of how hard YOUR going.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:03:32 No.56295635 Report

Quoted By:

>>56295551
That's why you need to work on it: you suck.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:05:00 No.56295643 Report

Quoted By: >>56295661

>>56295575
>Dwarven foie gras
Fuck, that sounds rad.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:05:57 No.56295653 Report

Quoted By: >>56295715

>>56295502
This is the only benefit I see to this feature.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:05:57 No.56295654 Report

Quoted By: >>56295808

>>56295587
She should get lectured very sternly by her god. Perhaps she could meet a hermit when she is alone, and have a choice to aid him, and if she doesn't, get lectured very sternly and lose some powers like you well said until she repents.

If she doesn't help that hermit, she's beyond help desu

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:06:11 No.56295658 Report

Quoted By:

>>56295587
I feel like that was more important to this discussion. Seems fine to me though.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:06:26 No.56295661 Report

Quoted By:

>>56295643
Dwarven coq au vin, mang

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:07:19 No.56295676 Report

Quoted By:

>>56295558
>>56295587
What I would do in your case, since this is still a first offence, is to just have a crack is her holy symbol. No mechanical penalties. Then if she continues to follow that path it could start to get more serious. But at first, a crack should be enough to let her know her deity is displeased with her actions.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:10:04 No.56295715 Report

Quoted By: >>56295792

>>56295653
It's meant to get rid of casters knowing exactly what spell slot level to use with Counterspell to just shut down the other spell. With the new rule and lack of transparency you've got to decide how much you want to risk it. You still get a roll to counterspell it if your spell slot isn't high enough but that's a risk you can't take some times so you might have to blow a higher level spell slot.

But then they could have been baiting you into doing that by casting a low level spell. Same sort of strategy with Legendary Resistances. You want to use something strong enough where they burn their Legendary Resistance, but not something too powerful because it will get chumped and you might want that higher level spell for later.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace download.jpg, 47KiB, 270x152

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:12:38 No.56295757 Report

Quoted By: >>56296101

So anyone else have any suggestions? >>56294839

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:15:10 No.56295792 Report

Quoted By: >>56295939

>>56295715

Yeah but if there's two casters and I decide to risk my counterspell not knowing what the spell is, the caster's buddy can counterspell me knowing that I cast counterspell on the first guy

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:15:56 No.56295808 Report

Quoted By:

>>56295654
You can't just drop a character into a one-on-one with a hermit. They know something's up. There has to be some shit going on in the background amidst an otherwise busy scene with other "more interesting" things to draw the PC's attention.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace aqueduct.jpg, 51KiB, 550x413

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:17:52 No.56295840 Report

Quoted By: >>56296006 >>56296023

>>56295575
My Dwarves are Mexicans and they build great aqueducts.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:23:44 No.56295939 Report

Quoted By: >>56296086

>>56295792
First off, if it's 2v1 you should be in the disadvantageous position.

Second, meta wise they don't "know" your counterspelling since your action/reaction all happen in the same 6 second time window. This is an issue from a gameplay sense because rounds are ridiculous.

Third, even if they do counterspell they still don't know what spell slot you are using so it's still a gamble, a gamble you can win.

>Enemy 1 begins casting a spell
>You're pretty sure he's got a big spell in his backpocket so you come out the gate with a 7th level spell slot for the Counterspell
>Enemy 2 notices you casting a spell, and guesses any spell your casting is probably bad for them and goes in for the counterspell, but he's not sure how strong to go, he decides 5th level spell slot should do it since he wants his higher level for later in the fight
>His CS isn't high enough to cancel your CS, he rolls a d20 + Int Mod against a DC 17, odds aren't in his favor.
>He flubs it, your CS goes off.
>Enemy 1 was casting a 7th level spell
>You auto-counterspell it, coming out on top

It requires a bit of luck but it's a 2v1 and all of your are casters, you shouldn't be winning that fight without luck.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:27:49 No.56296006 Report

Quoted By:

>>56295840
My elves are American, they build walls

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:29:00 No.56296023 Report

Quoted By: >>56296043 >>56296081 >>56296087 >>56296130

>>56295840
My dwarves are russian because i can not do a scottish accent.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:29:59 No.56296043 Report

Quoted By:

>>56296023
cannae

You are now half way there.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace dwarf_fighter_by_rubusthebarbari (...).jpg, 331KiB, 900x1293

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:32:02 No.56296081 Report

Quoted By: >>56296381 >>56296397

>>56296023
Wait dwarven accent is based on Scottish? I though dwarves had a Norse accent and dwarves were small underground viking people.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:32:19 No.56296086 Report

Quoted By: >>56296255

>>56295939
>First off, if it's 2v1 you should be in the disadvantageous position.

It doesn't need to be a 2v1. It could be 2v2, I could have an ally caster as well, and I'm still at a disadvantage not knowing what the first spell was.

Or it could be me and 3 martial buddies against 2 casters or something, who knows.

>Second, meta wise they don't "know" your counterspelling since your action/reaction all happen in the same 6 second time window.

Combat is turn-based, everyone reacts as if it's turn based. Meta wise, sure, but that's not how anyone plays it.

>Third, even if they do counterspell they still don't know what spell slot you are using so it's still a gamble

It's a gamble tilted in their favor though, since even if the guy counterspelling me fails, I could fail my counterspell too. Basically, if I fail OR if the guy counterspelling me succeeds, the original guy gets his spell.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace historical feel patrician.jpg, 135KiB, 506x661

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:32:21 No.56296087 Report

Quoted By:

>>56296023
>cannae

Never forget.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:32:54 No.56296101 Report

Quoted By: >>56296129

>>56295757
Druid is attacked when they get there with a slow acting magic poison. They need to hunt the would-be assassin down to make an anti-toxin out of the remaining poison.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:34:36 No.56296129 Report

Quoted By: >>56296156

>>56296101
Jesus fuck, I want this shit over with, not to drag it out more

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:34:40 No.56296130 Report

Quoted By:

>>56296023
Listen to this on repeat for an hour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvJsG4F2Img

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:35:38 No.56296143 Report

Quoted By:

>>56294839
>>56295363
A woman that lives alone in the bog nearby can fix their situation (or the artifact belongs to her anyway). The woman is actually a Night Hag (not revealed to them), that's why they'll die, it'll suck their souls or something.
When they arrive at her hut, she's nowhere to be seen (probably Ethereal or using a potion of invisibility she brewed), the players can sleep in her hut, if they do, she uses her Nightmare Haunting on one of them (just to guarantee she has an edge in case a fight breaks loose), warn the player he had awful nightmares, couldn't benefit from the rest and lost 1d10 max hp until the next long rest.
When they wake up, she appears shaped like a normal woman, she's interested in having the artifact back without fighting, but can handle herself if otherwise. Make that her Heartstone avoids them losing their souls, but she wants something for it.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace d7ff4aab80874829a3ff4e98cbc2c751.jpg, 40KiB, 550x480

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:36:32 No.56296156 Report

Quoted By: >>56296253

>>56296129
Bite the bullet, and have the curse cured.

Give them a month of downtime to celebrate.

And deal with the fact that you are an anti-Semitic twat who can't write endings.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:38:13 No.56296176 Report

Quoted By:

So, last week I told you guys how a fucking wizard was being obnoxious and doing everything and just begging to be killed. Today he niggered, fucked up an encounter of ours good, acted smug while doing it and so we tied up his downed ass and the lizardfolk just up and ate him. Felt satisfying.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:39:08 No.56296176,1 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>56295499
This is exactly what my group does. The Xanathar's ruling is exceedingly dumb.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:41:40 No.56296229 Report

Quoted By:

>>56295575
Mine are yorkshiremen.

Ah've doohn meh 'omework.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:42:58 No.56296253 Report

Quoted By: >>56296279 >>56296862

>>56296156
>Implying

Look here cupcake, I have nothing to do with the fact that she decided to haggle over a couple dozen gold every single time someone offers her a reward to do a job.

It's just icing on the cake that she keeps flubbing her persuade rolls.

I can end it just fine, I I just want to get this arc the fuck over with.

But if you're going to be a sissy crybaby maybe you can go fuck off to r/DnD

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:43:13 No.56296255 Report

Quoted By:

>>56296086
That's just the bias of the counterspell system as a whole, even in the current play.

Even if they gave you the spell they are casting for free, which is how many people run it now, there is absolutely no reason they should be giving the spell level. Most spells can be cast at a different level for enhanced effects, a savvy spellcaster will know this and use this to foil counterspell attempts. There really isn't that much of a difference.

It introduces slightly more risk in the first guess at the spell level but everything from that point on doesn't change. All you don't know is the minimum spell slot you'll need to use, but you'll have to use a 3rd level spell slot at least anyway.

As for the meta component, you are right the reality is people play sequentially, ideally you could use other reaction spells to bait out a counterspell but the only reaction spells in the PHB are in direction reaction (appropriately enough) to a specific thing like Feather Fall is in reaction to someone falling. But you really should be able to cast this when you want.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace 1260710343244.jpg, 33KiB, 600x486

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:44:57 No.56296279 Report

Quoted By: >>56296320

>>56296253
Downtime and magic shopping. Sounds like they want it.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:47:25 No.56296320 Report

Quoted By:

>>56296279
>lolitrolu

Yeah seriously Reddit is that fucking way

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:48:06 No.56296329 Report

Quoted By:

>>56295266
If only Sorcerer's got this, there would be so much teleporting followed by Quickened Booming Blades.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace NacatlSavage.jpg, 32KiB, 223x310

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:51:44 No.56296375 Report

Quoted By: >>56296405 >>56296410 >>56296471

Quick question is there any race similar to Nacatl yet and if not how would you stat them? I am think they get plus 2 to strenght and dex considering that they are ferocious big cat men.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:51:58 No.56296381 Report

Quoted By: >>56296397

>>56296081
Yeah but Norse is scandinavian, so you'd basically be making your dwarves sound like Pewdiepie.

And nobody wants that.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace giphy.gif, 2MiB, 500x309

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:53:16 No.56296397 Report

Quoted By:

>>56296381
>>56296081

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:54:00 No.56296405 Report

Quoted By: >>56296674

>>56296375
Tabaxi

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:54:18 No.56296410 Report

Quoted By: >>56296674

>>56296375
I mean it would be similar to tabaxi but str+2 dex+1 cause how Nacalt are still nimble

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace 8665873.jpg, 12KiB, 209x297

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:54:39 No.56296416 Report

Quoted By: >>56296494 >>56296570

Has Ceremony been changed in XGE?

Does 5e still not recognize divorces?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:58:08 No.56296464 Report

Quoted By:

>>56295585
>Hexblade, Kensei, college of swords bard, the ranger subclasses, the new cleric domains.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:58:30 No.56296471 Report

Quoted By: >>56296674

>>56296375
Considering how close Tabaxi are to Bugbears, just swap the +1 Cha from Tabaxi for +1 Str. Done.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 02:59:38 No.56296486 Report

Quoted By:

>>56295328
dick

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 03:00:07 No.56296494 Report

Quoted By:

>>56296416
If you're that buttmad about it you could homebrew a separation ceremony where the participants suffer a penalty of penitence for a week or something for casually dismissing the blessing of the gods, which gives them the ability to benefit from the ceremony boon again

Y'know nothing says you can't PARTICIPATE in the ceremony, just that you won't get the 24 hour boon.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace 1348452643261.png, 330KiB, 680x512

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 03:02:23 No.56296527 Report

Quoted By: >>56296556 >>56296591 >>56296652 >>56296695 >>56297161

>Your party wanders into an ancient cave
>You spy a long abandoned camp surrounded by several skeletons wearing the rotten remains of their leather armors
>On the ground are there discard weapons
>"Oh sweet I need a new sword, I go over and pick them up"
>"Ok, you pick up a mighty bastard sword, however, it is covered in rust and has become practically unusable"
>"wtf stop trying to make the game too real DM"

Tell me, /5eg/ how often do you account for rust in your game?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 03:04:06 No.56296556 Report

Quoted By:

>>56296527
Bastard swords weren't real, you're thinking of longswords.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 03:04:43 No.56296570 Report

Quoted By:

>>56296416
Given that FR lore specifically states that most officiated rich-folk marriages are temporary it'd be ridiculous if they didn't change it.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 03:04:53 No.56296575 Report

Quoted By:

looking for inquisitive rogue changes, anyone got details?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 03:05:37 No.56296587 Report

Quoted By: >>56296650 >>56296705

How do you guys handle giving mage characters spells as rewards? Since they can sorta just pick what they want is it a good idea to discuss it ahead of time and just say hey, what do you want, it might join the loot pool?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 03:05:44 No.56296591 Report

Quoted By:

>>56296527
>"wtf stop trying to make the game too real DM"
So how long did you wait before they encountered rust monsters in the cave?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 03:08:06 No.56296630 Report

Quoted By: >>56296675 >>56296715 >>56296723 >>56296762 >>56297168

With the counterspell rules ALL fucked up now, do you think they'll errata it?

I'm thinking the most sensible solution would be "identifying a spell" remains the same of 15+spell level Arcana check, but doesn't require a reaction.

the most fun solution would be to make more spells that counter other spells as reactions. Darkness/Daylight, for example, but also Wall of Force/Disintegrate, and magic missile/shield. if these unique interactions were expanded to other common spells, and counterspell was then not a thing,
people would have the most fun

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 03:09:31 No.56296650 Report

Quoted By:

>>56296587
Spell scrolls and spellbooks should come from enemy casters or things that would be considered valuable.

So the enemy spellbook will have spells you think the enemy caster should know, any scrolls will be things that are likely to be used by the enemies or valuable enough that they'd be kept. No one is going to keep a spell scroll to a shitty spell around just because.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 03:09:33 No.56296652 Report

Quoted By: >>56296695 >>56297011 >>56297100

>>56296527
>Too rusty to use
>Skeletons
Anon, if your area has enough moving air and moisture to decay swords to the point of being unusable the bones should have been destroyed far faster than the treated leather.

Why are you so married to unrealistically portraying the world??

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Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 03:11:06 No.56296674 Report

Quoted By:

>>56296471
>>56296405
>>56296410
Cool thanks. I will do that.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 03:11:17 No.56296675 Report

Quoted By:

>>56296630
That's a pretty cool idea, so you could reaction cast any spell in a version deliberately designed to counter another spell. The fluff reason you can do it faster is because it isn't the full spell just the general idea of the spell, so if you chose the wrong spell it wouldn't actualize as the full effect but just some visual effect or something.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 03:12:04 No.56296687 Report

Quoted By: >>56296707

>DMing a game
>One character has a backstory of being brutally mauled by a displacer beast and surviving.
>Want to make a unique Rakshasa-esque Displacer Beast for a later encounter for him.

Anyone have tips on how to balance it? I'm expecting the crew to meet it at about lvl 9-11

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 03:12:45 No.56296695 Report

Quoted By:

>>56296527
>rusty sword
>unusable
That's not how it works, unless your fucking cave is flooded by the ocean periodically. >>56296652 knows what's up. Why do realismfags always get realism wrong? This is why we can't sleep in armor anymore.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace 1509873175584.png, 5MiB, 1761x1910

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 03:13:23 No.56296705 Report

Quoted By: >>56296801

>>56296587
actually you shouldn't have to target characters for characters to receive rewards. *wizards* as the class is actually called, can transcribe spells from spell scrolls they find (and there are tons of scrolls to pick up from DMG loot tables), buy (with plenty of supporting work for purchasable scrolls at reasonable cost), and finally the ability to transcribe spell scrolls out of other wizard's spell books (and it's likely that a party will encounter at least a couple of those)

This also works for general magic items. The DMG loot tables actually offers christmas-tree levels of magic items, but you won't break your game by using it because of attunement restrictions and the amount of times you'll end up with +1 darts

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 03:13:28 No.56296707 Report

Quoted By:

>>56296687
Reskin a level 10 beast

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 03:13:35 No.56296711 Report

Quoted By:

>>56293277
So the best of gnomes mixed with the best of high elves with 8 half feats?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 03:13:54 No.56296715 Report

Quoted By: >>56296723 >>56296749 >>56296767 >>56296832

>>56296630

Hm? What'd they do to counterspell?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 03:14:29 No.56296723 Report

Quoted By: >>56296749 >>56296767 >>56296832 >>56296915

>>56296630
>>56296715
What happened to my precious counterspell?
I'm slow please tell me.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 03:16:06 No.56296749 Report

Quoted By: >>56296768 >>56296802

>>56296715
>>56296723
You now have to burn a reaction to identify what spell is being cast with roll. Otherwise you know they're casting but you don't know what.

This makes counterspell a bit weaker since you don't know the minimum spell level you'll need to counter it, but you still get the d20+Casting Mod to counter it if your counterspell spell level isn't high enough.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 03:17:17 No.56296762 Report

Quoted By:

>>56296630
>and counterspell was then not a thing,
>people would have the most fun

except abjuration wizards

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 03:17:39 No.56296767 Report

Quoted By: >>56296843

>>56296715
>>56296723
I'm gonna guess people interpreting the "Identifying A Spell" rules in XGE to mean you need to succeed on a check before you can Counterspell / ID a spell worth Counterspelling. This is what you faggots get for not having standardized verbal components. Cruath quasith, bitches.
That, or everyone finally caught up to casters being able to duck Counterspell entirely through Readied actions and line-of-sight.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace shutterstock_609654-1024x682.jpg, 131KiB, 1024x682

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 03:17:44 No.56296768 Report

Quoted By: >>56296784 >>56296809

>>56296749
>BBEG casts a spell
>Bard identifies it as Teleport
>Wizard Counterspells

Now it is a team activity

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 03:18:45 No.56296784 Report

Quoted By:

>>56296768
Or you can still go for broke and throw a high level Counterspell at them, it really doesn't change much.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 03:20:16 No.56296801 Report

Quoted By: >>56296994

>>56296705
I only said mages because I figured other casters could learn those spells even if they weren't a standard spell for them. Which is why this was in question. So those will not apply to warlocks/sorcs?

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 03:20:37 No.56296802 Report

Quoted By:

>>56296749
Oh that? Every game I've played had it like that (You don't know what's being cast unless you ID it which takes your reaction)
Normally I just meta and use the information I have if I wanna CS or not since I don't in game know the spell.
(Context, DM description, how far away the caster is, what save they say to roll/attack rolls, are they using Somatic or Verbal Components, are they already concentrating on something? etc)
Some may see this as bullshit. I say it's a good use of my ' seriously why the fuck did I memorize all this shit?' encyclopedic knowledge of the spell lists

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace terriblewizard.jpg, 150KiB, 1224x814

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 03:21:16 No.56296809 Report

Quoted By: >>56296814

>>56296768
>casters
>working with others

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 03:21:46 No.56296814 Report

Quoted By:

>>56296809
Every time you look at this picture it gets better.

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 03:23:34 No.56296832 Report

Quoted By: >>56296921 >>56296948 >>56296979

>>56296715
>>56296723
DM: "The Sorcerer cackles and makes gesture in your direction to cast a spell!"
Wizard: "What spell?"
DM: You don't know. You'll have to identify it.
Wizard: "Um, okay. How do I do that?"
DM: "You use your reaction, and make an Arcana check"
Wizard: "Ok. I rolled a 24"
DM: "Okay, she's casting disintegrate"
>"Lookout, she's casting disintegrate!" Shouted Bilbalf the Wizard, as he turned into a pile of dust.
Barbarian: Dude, brah, you're dead

game 2

DM: "The LICH cackles and gestures in your direction with the intent to cast a spell!!"
Wizard: "What spell?"
Barbarian: "No, not again!"
Wizard: "Fine, I use my reaction to counterspell"
DM: "The Lich points a finger and his Ray of Frost fizzles. "Eh?" he says with a shrug, and then begins cackling harder than before.

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Trace disdain-for-plebs-disdain-18961574.png, 155KiB, 500x643

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 03:24:11 No.56296843 Report

Quoted By: >>56296880 >>56296881 >>56296886

>>56296767
>standardized verbal components
>In a world without a monoculture

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 03:25:30 No.56296862 Report

Quoted By: >>56296905

>>56296253
>reddit spacing

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 03:26:59 No.56296880 Report

Quoted By:

>>56296843
>playing in a setting where a discrete entity created the interface through which all casters interact with the magical energies of the cosmos and without which magic demonstrably breaks down and explodes everyone
>not having every necessary excuse for standardized verbal components

Anonymous Wed 08 Nov 2017 03:26:59 No.56296881 Report

Quoted By:

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